Why does .380 brass get so beat up?

spacecoast · May 9, 2010, 05:34 PM

Just something I noticed in comparing my .380 brass with 9mm and .45 ACP. Most of my pieces of .380 brass have some kind of nick or gouge in the rim, some in multiple places, which I have to assume is from the action of the extractor pulling the brass after ignition. Very few if any pieces of 9mm and .45 ACP have this same "feature". Even though I'll continue to use it, I have to believe it will lead to a greater probability of extraction or feed problems.

Possible explanations?

machined (not hinged) extractors on the lightweight carry pistols are harder on the brass?
some inherent feature of the .380 ACP? A lighter weight rim?
lots of reuse of .380 brass? (and not much of the others by comparison)?

Xfire68 · May 9, 2010, 08:43 PM

My PPKS is super hard on the brass! I just bought some new Winchester brass at Cabelas and after one firing they look as bad as the brass I loaded up 3 times already! I don't like it as the "Once Fired" .380 brass cost 3x that of 9mm (Which does not get chewed up as much in the guns I have been shooting).

I need more .380 BRASS!!!!!! Lots more!!!!!!!!!!

chris in va · May 9, 2010, 08:58 PM

Could be many 380's are blowback in operation. IIRC.

Coffeeshop123 · May 9, 2010, 09:41 PM

It also depends on your pistol and where you are shooting. For example, if you're close to a brick wall, cases can be ejected and thrown against the wall with sufficient force to damage them. I saw a cool thread a couple of years ago, with pictures...The guy said he was shooting at an indoor range and heard a funny "pop"; looked down and saw a mess on the table in front of him. He figured that one of the ejected cases had bounced off of the wall next to him and was thrown downward...it happened to hit the primer of one of the rounds in the tray hard enough that the round detonated. Nobody was hurt, and he posted a photo of the case from the second round with the crescent-shaped mark where the rim of the first case had hit; also a photo of the now-broken styrofoam tray from the box of ammo he was using.

Or, the casing can be damaged by contacting the slide as it's ejected or damaged by the extractor itself. I've never owned a .380 but each firearm has its own little quirks.

FrankenMauser · May 9, 2010, 10:41 PM

I'm definitely a believe in circumstance.

The gun and the shooting conditions effect brass condition more than anything else.

My .380 brass looks as good coming out of the pistol, as it did going in. But... my pistol is easy on brass and I shoot in grassy areas in the desert. It gives the brass a nice bed to come to rest in, without getting dinged up (or damaged, if stepped on).

How hot you load can cause excessive wear, as well. If you're loading super hot, the slide will slam forward harder on some pistols (causing extra stress for rim snap-over, and beating the case head a bit more), and ejection can cause unwanted outcomes. Some loads will have the slide pulling on the rim before the case has released from the chamber walls... so, the rim suffers. Hot loads can also cause violent ejection, that dings the brass by flipping it too hard - back into the slide.

Xfire68 · May 10, 2010, 12:45 AM

Well in my case I am not doing either one? I am loading low end jacketed loads because I have been using "Plated" bullets and I have to keep the FPS down. I have also replaced the factory recoil spring with a 17Lbs "reduced load" spring. I to shot in a grassy area up here in the Midwest where the grass is dark green and thick right now. It's soo thick that I have trouble finding about 1/3 of my brass each time I going shooting! SOB!

There is only one thing left and it's my Walther! It loves to hate my brass!

Sevens · May 11, 2010, 08:45 AM

I'm not sure which scenario is harder for me to imagine: A piece of ejected brass that actually detonates a loaded round in a tray of ammo... or ... a grassy area in a desert.

Just funnin'... no bunched panties, please.

ZeSpectre · May 11, 2010, 08:50 AM

Hey, at least you can FIND your brass. My .380 either becomes lighter than air and wafts up into the atmosphere, or somehow magically transforms into 9mm brass when it bounces off the ground because somehow I can never even find about half of my brass

FrankenMauser · May 11, 2010, 02:37 PM

Quote:

I'm not sure which scenario is harder for me to imagine: A piece of ejected brass that actually detonates a loaded round in a tray of ammo... or ... a grassy area in a desert.

Just funnin'... no bunched panties, please.

I didn't say it was alive.

Grows in the spring and fall... dead the rest of the year. But still grass.

dcody40 · May 11, 2010, 05:04 PM

I had that problem once until I found a method of detecting the little buggers down in the grass, use your foot, and some soft soled tennis shoes, you can find the bumps with your foot, You'd be surprised how sensitive you feet are to bumps in the grass that don't normally have bumps lol. Did I say bumps enough, works for me, I used to raid our Police range while on a quiet patrol night, even with my boots on, I could find brass hiding down there somwhere, just don't stomp the little buggers. I normally left each search period with a whole cargo pocket of brass for my collection.

Now for a funny (free of charges) while all by myself with my maglight, digging for brass in our boonie range, a deer did what deer do when they are looking for some action,

if you know what a deer mating call sounds like at night about 50 feet behind me,

I almost had a heart attack !. And not knowing exactly what that was at that exact moment, I was ready to start shooting, I'm so glad nobody was around watching my reaction, I could have won some money for the funny !.. I went back to work after my blood pressure returned to earth.

Enjoy !

Duane USN/Ret

May 9, 2010, 05:34 PM	#1
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Why does .380 brass get so beat up? Just something I noticed in comparing my .380 brass with 9mm and .45 ACP. Most of my pieces of .380 brass have some kind of nick or gouge in the rim, some in multiple places, which I have to assume is from the action of the extractor pulling the brass after ignition. Very few if any pieces of 9mm and .45 ACP have this same "feature". Even though I'll continue to use it, I have to believe it will lead to a greater probability of extraction or feed problems. Possible explanations? machined (not hinged) extractors on the lightweight carry pistols are harder on the brass? some inherent feature of the .380 ACP? A lighter weight rim? lots of reuse of .380 brass? (and not much of the others by comparison)? Last edited by spacecoast; May 9, 2010 at 05:50 PM.

May 9, 2010, 10:41 PM	#5
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,426	I'm definitely a believe in circumstance. The gun and the shooting conditions effect brass condition more than anything else. My .380 brass looks as good coming out of the pistol, as it did going in. But... my pistol is easy on brass and I shoot in grassy areas in the desert. It gives the brass a nice bed to come to rest in, without getting dinged up (or damaged, if stepped on). How hot you load can cause excessive wear, as well. If you're loading super hot, the slide will slam forward harder on some pistols (causing extra stress for rim snap-over, and beating the case head a bit more), and ejection can cause unwanted outcomes. Some loads will have the slide pulling on the rim before the case has released from the chamber walls... so, the rim suffers. Hot loads can also cause violent ejection, that dings the brass by flipping it too hard - back into the slide. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

May 11, 2010, 08:45 AM	#7
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I'm not sure which scenario is harder for me to imagine: A piece of ejected brass that actually detonates a loaded round in a tray of ammo... or ... a grassy area in a desert. Just funnin'... no bunched panties, please. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

May 11, 2010, 08:50 AM	#8
ZeSpectre Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,276	Hey, at least you can FIND your brass. My .380 either becomes lighter than air and wafts up into the atmosphere, or somehow magically transforms into 9mm brass when it bounces off the ground because somehow I can never even find about half of my brass __________________ "The dogs may bark but the caravan moves on"

May 11, 2010, 05:04 PM	#10
dcody40 Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 124	Can't find my stinking brass ! I had that problem once until I found a method of detecting the little buggers down in the grass, use your foot, and some soft soled tennis shoes, you can find the bumps with your foot, You'd be surprised how sensitive you feet are to bumps in the grass that don't normally have bumps lol. Did I say bumps enough, works for me, I used to raid our Police range while on a quiet patrol night, even with my boots on, I could find brass hiding down there somwhere, just don't stomp the little buggers. I normally left each search period with a whole cargo pocket of brass for my collection. Now for a funny (free of charges) while all by myself with my maglight, digging for brass in our boonie range, a deer did what deer do when they are looking for some action, if you know what a deer mating call sounds like at night about 50 feet behind me, I almost had a heart attack !. And not knowing exactly what that was at that exact moment, I was ready to start shooting, I'm so glad nobody was around watching my reaction, I could have won some money for the funny !.. I went back to work after my blood pressure returned to earth. Enjoy ! Duane USN/Ret

May 9, 2010, 08:43 PM	#2
Xfire68 Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2010 Location: Communist State of IL. Posts: 1,562	My PPKS is super hard on the brass! I just bought some new Winchester brass at Cabelas and after one firing they look as bad as the brass I loaded up 3 times already! I don't like it as the "Once Fired" .380 brass cost 3x that of 9mm (Which does not get chewed up as much in the guns I have been shooting). I need more .380 BRASS!!!!!! Lots more!!!!!!!!!!

May 9, 2010, 08:58 PM	#3
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Could be many 380's are blowback in operation. IIRC.

May 9, 2010, 09:41 PM	#4
Coffeeshop123 Member Join Date: April 27, 2010 Posts: 20	It also depends on your pistol and where you are shooting. For example, if you're close to a brick wall, cases can be ejected and thrown against the wall with sufficient force to damage them. I saw a cool thread a couple of years ago, with pictures...The guy said he was shooting at an indoor range and heard a funny "pop"; looked down and saw a mess on the table in front of him. He figured that one of the ejected cases had bounced off of the wall next to him and was thrown downward...it happened to hit the primer of one of the rounds in the tray hard enough that the round detonated. Nobody was hurt, and he posted a photo of the case from the second round with the crescent-shaped mark where the rim of the first case had hit; also a photo of the now-broken styrofoam tray from the box of ammo he was using. Or, the casing can be damaged by contacting the slide as it's ejected or damaged by the extractor itself. I've never owned a .380 but each firearm has its own little quirks.

May 10, 2010, 12:45 AM	#6
Xfire68 Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2010 Location: Communist State of IL. Posts: 1,562	Well in my case I am not doing either one? I am loading low end jacketed loads because I have been using "Plated" bullets and I have to keep the FPS down. I have also replaced the factory recoil spring with a 17Lbs "reduced load" spring. I to shot in a grassy area up here in the Midwest where the grass is dark green and thick right now. It's soo thick that I have trouble finding about 1/3 of my brass each time I going shooting! SOB! There is only one thing left and it's my Walther! It loves to hate my brass!