9mm ... Sorting Brass

riverwalker76 · June 1, 2010, 11:31 AM

I bought some bulk brass from birdzman, and it's great brass but there are 5 different headstamps.

Do you all separate your brass by headstamp before reloading, or do you just go with the 'luck of the draw' and have several different headstamps mixed together? I'm just curious, because I know with .308 cases it makes a difference. Although, I didn't know if the 9mm was more consistent with case wall thickness.

Thanks.

**Unclenick** · June 1, 2010, 11:35 AM

Usually there is less difference in pistol brass. In either case (pistol or rifle), if you develop your load in the case with the lowest capacity (usually the heaviest) then it will be safe in the others. In rifle, a reduced load in a larger capacity case may not shoot as accurately, but in a pistol you usually can't tell.

ScottRiqui · June 1, 2010, 11:38 AM

I don't bother with sorting headstamps in pistol brass. My loads aren't close enough to maximum to cause pressure problems even if one brand has slightly less capacity than the others, and any variance in performance is below the threshold of what I can detect while target shooting offhand. If I were doing benchrest shooting with a scoped pistol, then that would be a different matter.

Don P · June 1, 2010, 11:48 AM

Simple answer, no. Load em and go

Waldog · June 1, 2010, 12:12 PM

I agree with the other posters. EXCEPT, I sort out all A-Merc and S&B brass. Their primer pockets are small making seating primers difficult on my progressive press. They are not worth the trouble.

DiscoRacing · June 1, 2010, 12:14 PM

Quote:

EXCEPT, I sort out all A-Merc and S&B brass

I throw them out... and load the rest.

farmerboy · June 1, 2010, 12:18 PM

Same here, I load everything the same but I will pair them up after reloading them in pistol and rifle and shoot them in brands. Pistols I cant even tell a difference. Rifles, I usually have about 20-30 of each brand and usually stick with a different brand at a different target. I dont worry that much about it.

gregjc9 · June 1, 2010, 01:33 PM

All my reloads are with plated bullets, so the load is at the mid-range, no worries about different headstamps and varying capacity. But I do sort out the crimped brass, all others go into the same bucket.

riverwalker76 · June 1, 2010, 01:50 PM

Ok everyone..... thanks for the help. I guess I'll mix and shoot.

birdzman has some great brass if you all are interested. It's a great buy.

Vitamin G · June 1, 2010, 06:32 PM

I'll take your S&B brass

I love that stuff.

SL1 · June 1, 2010, 08:18 PM

Although there is usually not enough difference in the VOLUME of pistol brass to make a safety issue with mixed brass for mid-power loads, there is ONE issue that can be a safety concern with mixed brass. That issue is case wall thickness at the mouth. SOME brass (often Remington) is occassionally found that has unusually thin walls, which CAN result in less-than-necessary tension on the bullet by the case. In auto-loaders, that can result in bullet set-back when the cartridge is driven into the feed ramp to automatically chamber the next round. Bullet set-back of only a few HUNDREDTHS of an inch can result in pressure increases of more than 10,000 psi. So, cases with unsually thin walls can be a hazard in "mixed brass" reloading for autoloaders.

IF your sizing die makes the brass small enough in your size/decap step, then your expander plug in the next die will still have some expanding to do in the next step. But, with some die sets, they do NOT make the brass small enough if the brass walls are on the order of only 0.009" thick instead of 0.011" thick.

While this is not a hazard for mixed brass in revolvers and single-shots, it certainly can be for auto-loaders.

SL1

DiscoRacing · June 1, 2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

I'll take your S&B brass

Ya dont have trouble with that in an auto??

SL1... I have heard of that problem but have never encountered it myself... I shoot 9mm, 40, and 45acp with mixed brass out of S&W autos...never have had a problem at all.

ScottRiqui · June 1, 2010, 08:24 PM

SL1,

Could bullet setback from a loose case mouth be a self-correcting problem? If the mouth is loose enough to allow the bullet to set back, could it also be loose enough to let the bullet start moving at a lower pressure when the round is fired? This would expand the available combustion volume more quickly than normal, offsetting the increased pressure from the setback?

chris in va · June 1, 2010, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Do you all separate your brass by headstamp before reloading

Not really. The only sorting I do is running a strong magnet through my range pickup to weed out the steel impostors.

Quote:

Ya dont have trouble with that in an auto??

Nope, only if it's steel. Some S&B is brass and works fine in my CZ.

SL1 · June 1, 2010, 08:39 PM

ScottRiqui,

From both QuickLOAD calculations and what I have seen of lab tests, it doesn't look like the set-back problem would be self-correcting. With pistol powers, the burning rate is usually fast enough that the bullet doesn't move far before the powder reached peak pressure. "Start" pressure doesn't seem to be anywhere near as important as how far the bullet gets set back.

SL1

ScottRiqui · June 1, 2010, 08:41 PM

Thanks - I haven't bought QuickLoad yet (still playing with the demo to make sure it works in Windows XP under Mac OS X), and I didn't know that it allowed you to vary the case neck tension.

DiscoRacing · June 1, 2010, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Nope, only if it's steel. Some S&B is brass and works fine in my CZ.

Wont eject hardly ever from either of the five S&Ws that I have... is why I just toss em out.

Jeff H · June 1, 2010, 08:59 PM

Quote:

I'll take your S&B brass

I love that stuff.

I concur. I have 9mm brass coming out of my ears or I would offer to accept your S&B brass as well. They have that annoying primer sealer that makes them hard to decap, but after that, they are great.

SL1 · June 1, 2010, 09:18 PM

allows you to vary "start pressure" which is not exactly the same as varying case neck tension. Start pressure can be from the force needed to engrave the bullet with the rifling, or it could be from a crimp in a gun with a lot of free-bore.

Unfortunately, QuickLOAD does not allow you to simply enter free-bore for your gun as a direct parameter.

SL1

Rig Magician · June 1, 2010, 09:27 PM

I just started reloading but I loaded 2600 rounds while home this time. I removed all S&B brass from my supplies because I noticed that every high seated primer that I had came from S&B brass. It is not worth worring about when I can get brass for .5 cents each, and the supply is good.
Mark

WESHOOT2 · June 2, 2010, 09:26 AM

I sort by headstamp, because actual testing in my personal actual 9x19s shows a noticeable difference on target.
And I ain't that good.....

I am not too concerned in numerous other chamberings, but definitely in 9x19.
Case construction, alloy, and internal dimensions vary greatly.

Re: Setback (also referred to as "KB"

); bad.

Sevens · June 2, 2010, 10:14 AM

I also sort by headstamp, and here's exactly how I do it.

All my WIN goes in a bucket of WIN.
All my R-P goes in a bucket of R-P.
All my older FEDERAL or FC goes in a bucket of, yep, you guessed it.
These buckets I keep in reserve in the event I need them, or need to make a big load of ammo, say if I were to need a thousand rounds for one purpose. (like were I to attend a shooting school, etc)

I keep those separate from each other and all other headstamps because they are plentiful and I like having the reserve.

I use others as my "GO TO" brass. Mostly, I use new ATK stuff.
New ATK stuff includes all stamps marked CCI, BLAZER, SPEER and the new Federal Champion (Wal-Mart specific) brass that is marked F C with the dots on them. I know it when I see it. All of this brass is current/recent ATK stuff, so I keep it together.

I also separate PMC brass in it's own bin.
CBC/Magtech in it's own bin.

All the rest goes in to a "mixed brass" collection of 9mm that includes *I*, Fiocchi and all Fiocchi brands, S&B, any nato stamped or milsurp brass no matter who made it and anything else that doesn't have a home in one of the above.

For that mixed brass, I load and use it in my Kel-Tec Sub 2000 carbine. This rifle is hard on brass and can munch it and toss it a good distance. I still pick up stuff that is shot from the Sub2K, but I lose and destroy some of it, so I plan for it by loading that stuff for the carbine.

In the end-- if you see my gun box on a range day, a 50-rd box of 9mm will be all the same headstamp (typically some ATK product) but different boxes of 9mm ammo may be different headstamp. If it's ammo for the carbine, then it is mixed brass but it will not have any WIN, Fed, R-P, CCI/ATK, PMC or CBC in it.

I do not vary my loads according to head stamp -- I load them same in all my brass, I just don't mix my brass.

Is this a lot of work? Kind of, yeah, it's a lot of sorting... but I have always found sorting brass to be an enjoyable activity. I understand if others don't agree.

transtech · June 2, 2010, 12:14 PM

Probably depends on what you're gonna do with the ammo after you load it. If you're gonna bang away at a silhouette target 5 yards away, doesn't matter. If you want less than a 12 inch group @ 25 yards, sort. Also, 9mm handguns have been known to be picky about brass length & headspace, if some sort of satisfying accuracy is your goal. I own 9's that will do better with brass right @ .748" or shorter (after sizing) & some others like brass at least .748" & longer, so I sort for post-sizing case length also. At 25 yards, every little thing about 9mm brass does make a difference in getting the group size down. Experiment.

FEG · June 2, 2010, 03:10 PM

Quote:

I sort by headstamp, because actual testing in my personal actual 9x19s shows a noticeable difference on target.
And I ain't that good.....

I am not too concerned in numerous other chamberings, but definitely in 9x19.
Case construction, alloy, and internal dimensions vary greatly.

I agree 100% Additionally, some brands are considerably shorter (like Fiocchi), which means that they won't crimp properly if the die is set to another brand.

FWIW, I don't think S&B has tighter primer pockets. I think people are failing to get all of the lacquer out of the pocket. When I wet clean with vniegar, then tumble, primers go into S&B 9mm cases just fine. You can see a lot of lacquer floating around in the vinegar afterwards.

BigJimP · June 2, 2010, 03:31 PM

I have a variety of 1911's chambered in 9mm / and some Sig's as well ....and none of my guns show any accuracy difference in my reloads / and I mix all the headstamps...

I don't see any reason to sort 9mm brass by headstamp...

June 1, 2010, 11:31 AM	#1
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	9mm ... Sorting Brass I bought some bulk brass from birdzman, and it's great brass but there are 5 different headstamps. Do you all separate your brass by headstamp before reloading, or do you just go with the 'luck of the draw' and have several different headstamps mixed together? I'm just curious, because I know with .308 cases it makes a difference. Although, I didn't know if the 9mm was more consistent with case wall thickness. Thanks. __________________ *Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto* - “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”

June 1, 2010, 11:35 AM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Usually there is less difference in pistol brass. In either case (pistol or rifle), if you develop your load in the case with the lowest capacity (usually the heaviest) then it will be safe in the others. In rifle, a reduced load in a larger capacity case may not shoot as accurately, but in a pistol you usually can't tell. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 1, 2010, 11:48 AM	#4
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Simple answer, no. Load em and go __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

June 1, 2010, 12:12 PM	#5
Waldog Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2007 Location: SOCAL Posts: 359	I agree with the other posters. EXCEPT, I sort out all A-Merc and S&B brass. Their primer pockets are small making seating primers difficult on my progressive press. They are not worth the trouble. __________________ I am the Christian Conservative that CNN warned you about!! “Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy.” Winston Churchill

June 1, 2010, 12:18 PM	#7
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	Same here, I load everything the same but I will pair them up after reloading them in pistol and rifle and shoot them in brands. Pistols I cant even tell a difference. Rifles, I usually have about 20-30 of each brand and usually stick with a different brand at a different target. I dont worry that much about it. Last edited by farmerboy; June 1, 2010 at 01:29 PM.

June 1, 2010, 11:38 AM	#3
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	I don't bother with sorting headstamps in pistol brass. My loads aren't close enough to maximum to cause pressure problems even if one brand has slightly less capacity than the others, and any variance in performance is below the threshold of what I can detect while target shooting offhand. If I were doing benchrest shooting with a scoped pistol, then that would be a different matter.

June 1, 2010, 01:33 PM	#8
gregjc9 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2008 Location: Northern Va Posts: 501	All my reloads are with plated bullets, so the load is at the mid-range, no worries about different headstamps and varying capacity. But I do sort out the crimped brass, all others go into the same bucket. __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Greg

June 1, 2010, 01:50 PM	#9
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	Ok everyone..... thanks for the help. I guess I'll mix and shoot. birdzman has some great brass if you all are interested. It's a great buy. __________________ *Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto* - “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”

June 1, 2010, 06:32 PM	#10
Vitamin G Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 307	I'll take your S&B brass I love that stuff.

June 1, 2010, 08:18 PM	#11
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	One issue about "mixed brass" in auto-loaders. Although there is usually not enough difference in the VOLUME of pistol brass to make a safety issue with mixed brass for mid-power loads, there is ONE issue that can be a safety concern with mixed brass. That issue is case wall thickness at the mouth. SOME brass (often Remington) is occassionally found that has unusually thin walls, which CAN result in less-than-necessary tension on the bullet by the case. In auto-loaders, that can result in bullet set-back when the cartridge is driven into the feed ramp to automatically chamber the next round. Bullet set-back of only a few HUNDREDTHS of an inch can result in pressure increases of more than 10,000 psi. So, cases with unsually thin walls can be a hazard in "mixed brass" reloading for autoloaders. IF your sizing die makes the brass small enough in your size/decap step, then your expander plug in the next die will still have some expanding to do in the next step. But, with some die sets, they do NOT make the brass small enough if the brass walls are on the order of only 0.009" thick instead of 0.011" thick. While this is not a hazard for mixed brass in revolvers and single-shots, it certainly can be for auto-loaders. SL1

June 1, 2010, 08:24 PM	#13
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	SL1, Could bullet setback from a loose case mouth be a self-correcting problem? If the mouth is loose enough to allow the bullet to set back, could it also be loose enough to let the bullet start moving at a lower pressure when the round is fired? This would expand the available combustion volume more quickly than normal, offsetting the increased pressure from the setback?

June 1, 2010, 08:39 PM	#15
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	ScottRiqui, From both QuickLOAD calculations and what I have seen of lab tests, it doesn't look like the set-back problem would be self-correcting. With pistol powers, the burning rate is usually fast enough that the bullet doesn't move far before the powder reached peak pressure. "Start" pressure doesn't seem to be anywhere near as important as how far the bullet gets set back. SL1

June 1, 2010, 08:41 PM	#16
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	Thanks - I haven't bought QuickLoad yet (still playing with the demo to make sure it works in Windows XP under Mac OS X), and I didn't know that it allowed you to vary the case neck tension.

June 1, 2010, 09:18 PM	#19
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	QuickLOAD allows you to vary "start pressure" which is not exactly the same as varying case neck tension. Start pressure can be from the force needed to engrave the bullet with the rifling, or it could be from a crimp in a gun with a lot of free-bore. Unfortunately, QuickLOAD does not allow you to simply enter free-bore for your gun as a direct parameter. SL1

June 1, 2010, 09:27 PM	#20
Rig Magician Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Pineville, La. Posts: 64	S&B brass I just started reloading but I loaded 2600 rounds while home this time. I removed all S&B brass from my supplies because I noticed that every high seated primer that I had came from S&B brass. It is not worth worring about when I can get brass for .5 cents each, and the supply is good. Mark

June 2, 2010, 09:26 AM	#21
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	guns in my hands I sort by headstamp, because actual testing in my personal actual 9x19s shows a noticeable difference on target. And I ain't that good..... I am not too concerned in numerous other chamberings, but definitely in 9x19. Case construction, alloy, and internal dimensions vary greatly. Re: Setback (also referred to as "KB" ); bad. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

June 2, 2010, 10:14 AM	#22
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I also sort by headstamp, and here's exactly how I do it. All my WIN goes in a bucket of WIN. All my R-P goes in a bucket of R-P. All my older FEDERAL or FC goes in a bucket of, yep, you guessed it. These buckets I keep in reserve in the event I need them, or need to make a big load of ammo, say if I were to need a thousand rounds for one purpose. (like were I to attend a shooting school, etc) I keep those separate from each other and all other headstamps because they are plentiful and I like having the reserve. I use others as my "GO TO" brass. Mostly, I use new ATK stuff. New ATK stuff includes all stamps marked CCI, BLAZER, SPEER and the new Federal Champion (Wal-Mart specific) brass that is marked F C with the dots on them. I know it when I see it. All of this brass is current/recent ATK stuff, so I keep it together. I also separate PMC brass in it's own bin. CBC/Magtech in it's own bin. All the rest goes in to a "mixed brass" collection of 9mm that includes I, Fiocchi and all Fiocchi brands, S&B, any nato stamped or milsurp brass no matter who made it and anything else that doesn't have a home in one of the above. For that mixed brass, I load and use it in my Kel-Tec Sub 2000 carbine. This rifle is hard on brass and can munch it and toss it a good distance. I still pick up stuff that is shot from the Sub2K, but I lose and destroy some of it, so I plan for it by loading that stuff for the carbine. In the end-- if you see my gun box on a range day, a 50-rd box of 9mm will be all the same headstamp (typically some ATK product) but different boxes of 9mm ammo may be different headstamp. If it's ammo for the carbine, then it is mixed brass but it will not have any WIN, Fed, R-P, CCI/ATK, PMC or CBC in it. I do not vary my loads according to head stamp -- I load them same in all my brass, I just don't mix my brass. Is this a lot of work? Kind of, yeah, it's a lot of sorting... but I have always found sorting brass to be an enjoyable activity. I understand if others don't agree. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

June 2, 2010, 12:14 PM	#23
transtech Junior Member Join Date: June 2, 2010 Posts: 14	Sort 9mm Luger brass by headstamp Probably depends on what you're gonna do with the ammo after you load it. If you're gonna bang away at a silhouette target 5 yards away, doesn't matter. If you want less than a 12 inch group @ 25 yards, sort. Also, 9mm handguns have been known to be picky about brass length & headspace, if some sort of satisfying accuracy is your goal. I own 9's that will do better with brass right @ .748" or shorter (after sizing) & some others like brass at least .748" & longer, so I sort for post-sizing case length also. At 25 yards, every little thing about 9mm brass does make a difference in getting the group size down. Experiment.

June 2, 2010, 03:31 PM	#25
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I have a variety of 1911's chambered in 9mm / and some Sig's as well ....and none of my guns show any accuracy difference in my reloads / and I mix all the headstamps... I don't see any reason to sort 9mm brass by headstamp...