Knives

[weerwolf]

What kind of knifes do you guys prefer as self-defence ? I am a knife collector , I have at least one knife of each kind, I would prefer a butterfly knife , but thats just my opinion.

[CWL]

Some people prefer butterfly knives, principally FMA practitioners and also people who carry them because they think it looks cool. This has helped make them illegal hereabouts for carry.

IMO (and I have studied FMA), I think that it is a very weak blade design since there is no support for the blade except where it is held to the scales with two pins. It is not anymore efficient a slasher as most other designs. It is a weak thrusting blade and useless for chopping.

I prefer a more modern folder for daily carry, they are as fast to deploy, but would really prefer a full-tang fixed blade if going into harm's way. Neck knives with fixed blades are also a preferable option.

[Joe Demko]

IMO (and I have studied FMA), I think that it is a very weak blade design since there is no support for the blade except where it is held to the scales with two pins.

Um...in most folders the blade is held to the handle scales by *one* pin (the one on which the blade pivots).

It is not anymore efficient a slasher as most other designs. It is a weak thrusting blade and useless for chopping.

That would depend on the design of the blade itself, not the way the knife opens. Virtually any kind of blade can be put in a butterfly design that could be put in any other kind of folder.

[Inspector Callahan]

Two words. Spyderco Police.

[45Rookie]

I would say any 3 inch blade or longer from Benchmade, Spyderco, Microtech, or Stider will do in the hands of a skilled user.

My personal carry is a Benchmade 750 monolock blade, 154 CM metal, and Titanium scales.

[rlpinca]

I have a Columbia River M16. It's very fast to open and has proven to be very durable.

In general, I like folders with a pocket clip. I've owned gerbers, shrades, spidercos and most recently my CRKT. They've all been worth every penny.

[ahenry]

Um...in most folders the blade is held to the handle scales by *one* pin (the one on which the blade pivots).

Of course, that one pin is almost without fail, far larger than the two pins on a balisong. Not to mention the stress points on a “normal” knife design are not solely on the pin, unlike a balisong. Moreover, the actions done with a balisong are extremely hard on a knife. I think they are cool, and lots of fun to play with but rather terrible to trust in a dicey situation.



All that said, I have only had one ballisong fail on me, and it was a cheapo from a gun show back with I was a kid. *shrug* to each his own.

[Joe Demko]

I have seen the lock mechanism fail on some very expensive folders under pretty minimal stress. You basically have to break either a handle or a pin for a balisong to fail. On anything better than one of those gunshow cheapies w/ cast zinc (zamak) handles, that isn't an easy thing to do. Typically, you'd snap the tip off the blade first.
Hijinks w/ balisongs do beat them up. So does loosening the fasteners on a conventional folder (especially liner locks) so you can snap them open with a flick of the wrist.

[Christopher II]

For carry? Fixed blade, three to four inches in length, no thicker than 3/16" stock, hard scales, minimal crossguard. I prefer carbon steels to stainless.

I like balisongs, and I love doing tricks with them (anyone here able to toss the closed knife and catch it open?) but I don't think I'd carry one. Fixed-blade knives really hold all the aces for a work blade.

Knife fighting sucks. Don't do it, unless you really like blood loss, hospitals, and permanent loss of mobility.

- Chris

[scotjute]

Fixed blade, guard, blade length min. 5" (prefer blade length of 10-16" for actual self-defense, however, actually carrying one that long is another matter), style can be drop-point, tanto, or clip-point as long as it remains slender/sharp enough for penetrating thrust and has some curve for slashing.
A sort of slender "Bowie" style might be the optimum design.

[krept]

Prefer a fixed double edged blade in the 4-6" range.

Balis have very strong lockup, probably much more than most folding blades. Search on bladeforums.com for the skinny.

[Cowdogpete]

If I could choose for a knife fight it would be a Cold Steel Tanto.

The knife I carry all the time is a S&W SWAT. Nice folder, opens easily (can flip it open with your wrist) Sufficient for most defensive encounters.

The type of knife is of little significance...its the fighter that matters.

[CWL]

Like I said, I would really prefer a full-tang fixed blade. Neck knives are an option.

There are good quality butterfly knives, but they are still inherently weak because of the 2 pin design.

Clay, the Balisong Forum Moderator over at Bladeforums.com has a personal balisong website. Interesting how the first item on his "Tips & Tricks" is maintenance & repair. More of note is how the first item of this list is how to "Replace the pins yourself..."

Here's the first line of that section:

Sooner or later it happens to all of us. You're flyin' through your favorite Balisong moves (ever notice it's always when you're at your best...... I hate that!) and all of a sudden one of the handles falls at your feet. What an empty feeling.

http://www.balisongxtreme.com/tips.htm

[Tamara]

Prefer a gun.

The knives I usually carry are a Sebenza and an Emerson Commander.




(What, you don't carry two knives? Why not? You carry two guns, right? Er, right? )

[hso]

Tam,

There's always the question about "legal" carry of a firearm and under some clothing options there just ain't no place to put a gun (ok that .32 KelTec is nearly the size of a palm).


All,

The training and will of the individual matters more than the knife. Like any tool the skill and talent of the craftsman is more important than how pretty the tools are. If you carry a knife for defense don't use it for anything else, i.e. carry 2 knives at least. If you can carry a fixed blade do it. They are faster to deploy, more durable, and have fewer moving parts to fail . For folders avoid any and all gimmicks that you can't bet your life on. Practice cutting/thrusting with your knife. Wet rolled up newspaper with a standard garment fabric over it makes a good sim. Take your time. Learn how to sharpen, you'll need that knife to be as sharp as possible and if you practice it won't be at some point. Don't keep switching your defense knife out for something else. It needs to be an extension of you and any knife takes time to get used to. If you have to change knives let the others float in and out of your pocket, but keep ol' reliable where it belongs. All that being said, I prefer a 4-5" blade with a curve, with the tip ending in line with the point of my thumb. (Yeah, bigger is better, but what you can comfortably carry on your person is as important. This is the same argument in handguns about size) Lot's of knives to choose from both custom and production.

[CZ75daddy0405]

Cold Steel "Hombre"

[Joe Demko]

There are good quality butterfly knives, but they are still inherently weak because of the 2 pin design.

No. The butterfly design is not inherently weak. The ones most people buy are cheap, cast zinc pieces of crap. Are lockbacks inherently weak because the cheap Red Chinese pieces of junk will close on your fingers with little pressure? Are automatic pistols inherently weak because cast zinc crap like Lorcins self-destruct after a few rounds?

I repeat, butterfly knives get beat up when they are habitually flipped. Buy yourself a liner locking folder, loosen the torx fasteners, and wrist flip it open a few hundred/thousand times. You'll see it gets beat up in no time, too.

Instead of using crap balis as your basis of comparison, I think you should use Benchmade's entry level butterfly knives.

[CWL]

Reread my last posting above.

I repeat, butterfly knives get beat up when they are habitually flipped.

-Isn't that the purpose of a balisong/butterfly?

-I've never needed to loosen the torx fasteners on a folder, nor do I wrist-snap open any of mine. They aren't designed for that operation, AND is typically warned against doing so by manufacturers.

[Santino]

I really suggest that if anyone thinks that the bali song design is "weak" should check out the forums over here..........

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/fo...hp?forumid=721


Fixed blade strength ?..............No....................as far as "folders" go they rank up there with frame locks and axis locks........maybe even superior to them.

[Joe Demko]

-Isn't that the purpose of a balisong/butterfly?

Only in the same sense that the purpose of a SAA is twirling it and doing fast-draw. A whole set of antics has grown up around flipping and spinning the bali. Some of it practical, some of it not.

[CWL]

Sooner or later it happens to all of us. You're flyin' through your favorite Balisong moves (ever notice it's always when you're at your best...... I hate that!) and all of a sudden one of the handles falls at your feet. What an empty feeling.

Once again, this is posted by the BALISONG FORUM MODERATOR over @ bladeforums.com.

http://www.balisongxtreme.com/tips.htm


Once again, my preference is a fixed blade.

[krept]

Fixed blade... full tang. Can it get any stronger or faster to deploy? I don't think so...

but... folders are easier to carry. Balisong are less technical to produce in a non-industrial setting (think older Manila) than the high tech locking folders. Thus, they were probably made with carryability/portability (plus lock strength) in mind versus a fixed blade. I think this was the intention versus doing the fancy flips.

I really doubt the many many knife fights in the streets of Manila involve lots of bali-flipping. And those folks are quite the knife fighters. Their fixed blades are probably machetes.

I liken flipping the bali to having an open cylinder on a revolver. You can close it nicely, or you can flip it shut one handed because it looks cool. But doing this isn't really good for the revolver, nor is flipping the bali. Of course a lot of fun time is spent doing tricks, but I see them as just tricks, not fighting techniques.

Clay, Chuck, all those guys from the forum are awesome at flipping, but I really haven't seen much of them related to knife fighting techniques... that Master Po guy on the other hand looks like he knows some stuff though.

but yeah, if portability isn't an issue, a fixed blade is certainly the way to go IMO.

[pbarrick]

If you're looking for a folder, the Spyderco Delica is a good choice in plainedge. It's big enough to do the job and inexpensive enough to afford. For a bigger carry blade, the CRKT Crawford/Kasper or Professional is also a good choice.

If you can carry a fixed blade (faster to deploy, less mechanical pieces to fail when Mr. Murphy is around), the Gryphon M10 by Bob Terzuola is a good choice. So is CRKT's Companion (the sheath that comes with it is serviceable but Mike Sastre's sheaths are more practical for daily carry and deployment).

[CWL]

Neck knife.

Will cut strings, boxes ...but no mistake what this is for.

http://topsknives.com/products_pages...l/scalpel.html

[Don Gwinn]

Erick, Erick, Erick--cut, don't pry!

The nice thing about a balisong is the security. Yes, it could break, but so could a conventional knife. On the other hand, most conventional lock types (particularly liner locks and back locks) have a tendency to fail unless done just right. These types are easy to make in such a way that just gripping them the "wrong" way will open the lock. Even then there's no way to make them "grip-proof."

With the Balisong, assuming you hold onto it, the lock will not fail short of actually breaking the pin or the handle. You can't help but hold it locked as long as you're holding the knife.

Of course, Balisongs are slower for most people (like me) than a Spyderco, and some of the newer designs like Axis locks and Rolling Locks are pretty hard to disengage by accident. So again, it basically comes down to what you feel like using.