M1 Garand question

[holt2010]

Would i be expecting too much, buying an M1 as a shooter? Is it safe to shoot? Ive heard the horror stories and Im not sure. I just need some good advice from some good guys

[jrothWA]

thru the CMP.

avoid the gunshows, more trouble than worth.

Could buy new from Springfield armory, out of Genesco. Ill.

Fulton armory has refurbished but pricey.

[ChicagoTex]

Just realize that you can't fire modern factory ammo safely in a Garand - even the new ones from Springfield (with the exception of American Eagle's (Federal's) 150gr load and some specialized expensive match loads from companies like Horandy). Most Garand shooters these days are shooting the very affordable Greek non-corrosive surplus being sold through the CMP, or are handloading.

The suggestion of ordering directly from the CMP or from an original owner is a good one.

[Old Grump]

Plus if you reload there are many sites where you can get the equivalent military loading from. Biggest thing about commercial ammo is try and stay down around the 150 gr level and do not buy anything that says mini mag or hyper velocity or anything else that might indicate its a high pressure round. I shoot a lot of Greek and Turkish ammo myself and so far is all been acceptable. I also reload but I am careful to keep it down to acceptable levels.

[holt2010]

another question, would it be wiser to buy a mosin or a mauser instead of the garand? Would they be shooters?

[MLeake]

Just got my CMP Garand, and hadn't heard of ammo issues with it.

I've read of two separate problems:

1) Modern propellants overloading the gas system; and
2) Modern primers being "over sensitive" and slam-firing in the Garand.

Ignorance being bliss, put about 40 rounds of 180gr Remington Core-Lokt through mine before reading that I shouldn't have done so. Encountered no problems, but won't do that again.

What 150gr commercial loads have forum members experienced long-term success with in Garands?

Thanks,

M

[ChicagoTex]

Encountered no problems, but won't do that again.

You may have gotten away with it, but absolutely don't do it again.

This is the one and ONLY remotely affordable factory loading that's safe in a Garand. A couple manufacturers make match ammo for Garand competitions (and are specifically labeled as such, like the Hornady 168gr A-Max M1 Garand listed on this page.)

EDIT: Adding a link to The Greek Surplus Ammo from the CMP, 192 rounds (already in en-bloc clips) for $75. Unfortunately ship time is 120-180 days.

[ChicagoTex]

another question, would it be wiser to buy a mosin or a mauser instead of the garand? Would they be shooters?

Depends on what tickles your fancy. Most primary WW1/WW2-era battle rifles are really shooters - they tend not to be in immaculate shape and aren't particularly rare. (The only potential exception I can think of is a 1903 Springfield). If you think you want and could have fun with a Mauser or a Mosin, by all means, have at it. Mosins, in particular, are incredibly affordable (you can find 91-30s in very decent shape for around $100, M38s and M44s more like $130). The only hazard with these rifles is that most of the milsurp ammo is corrosive (actually, for the Nagants, pretty much ALL of it is corrosive, with the Mauser it's more like 70/30).

[mavracer]

the problem with ammo and the garand is slow burning powder. The gas system which taps gas near the end of the barrel requires faster powder so pressure is dropping before it hits the port if pressure is too high you will bend the op-rod.
There is an easy fix there are a couple company's that make an adjustable gas plug.I've got the schuster,it's real easy to adjust you just start with the adjustment screw out most of the way and screw it in 1/4 turn til gun functions properly.here it is
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=777146

[ChicagoTex]

Biggest thing about commercial ammo is try and stay down around the 150 gr level and do not buy anything that says mini mag or hyper velocity or anything else that might indicate its a high pressure round.

The tricky thing about the Garand design is that it was designed for a specific pressure CURVE - you can still damage a Garand shooting 150gr bullets and even staying below it's max chamber pressure limit because it's the op-rod that'll give out first.

In short: obviously shooting cartridges marked "magnum" or loaded up to 180 or 200gr is gonna damage your Garand, but so will most 150gr and under loads. Almost nothing from the factory is safe - it's the curse of Garand ownership.

[ChicagoTex]

There is an easy fix there are a couple company's that make an adjustable gas plug.I've got the schuster,it's real easy to adjust you just start with the adjustment screw out most of the way and screw it in 1/4 turn til gun functions properly.here it is
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=777146

I must be tired, I completely forgot about the existence of the adjustable gas plugs. These will indeed allow you to shoot most modern factory loads safely in a Garand, the only downsides are:
1. It's not original (but if it's a shooter, so what?)
and 2. You have to dial-in the gas plug for your load, if you change loads you may need to adjust for reliable and/or safe operation.

[the rifleer]

Condition condition condition... name of the game.

I have a mosin nagant m44 and a swiss k31, both in outstanding condition, both are very good shooters. But an m1, but be sure its in good shape. They are totally safe if you use the right ammo. I would LOVE one, but its out of my price range at the moment.

[Flatbush Harry]

I'm a big fan of the M1 Garand and the CMP. I also have gotten quite a bit of the Greek HXP M2 ball that they sell...it comes in clips and bandoliers in sealed spam cans. They are great shooters.

As to reloading, I use Hornady's manual with their 155gr and 168gr A-MAX match bullets. I'm trying Hodgdon's Varget, H4895 and IMR 4064 per their loads with CCI BR2 primers to find each of my M1's best accuracy load.

Military rifle matches are fun...get one and try it.

FH

[mavracer]

A couple more things on the Schuster adj. plug they now make one that look's just like a WW2 issue plug.Of course they had to bring it out after I bought the regular one
Either plug is DCM legal for service rifle, not sure about John C. Garand matches.also it takes just a few seconds to swap the GI plug back so you can grab your spam can of HPX when the zombies attack.

[MLeake]

... require any particular tools to install?

[mavracer]

require any particular tools to install?

no you can use the original garand tool either this one that will come in the GI cleaning kit
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/27884-1.html
or the garand multi tool
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MGR095-1.html
or a large screwdriver will work but be careful

[MythBuster]

"Could buy new from Springfield armory, out of Genesco"

These are not "new". The poorly made cast receiver is new. The barrel and wood is new.

All the other parts are used USGI that are refinished and many of them are worn out.

Also they no longer offer this piece of crap. Thank God.

[Slamfire]

I roll my own.

I full length size each case with a small base die.

I set up the die with a cartridge headspace gage, and I size all cases to gage minimum.

I trim.

I ream pockets to depth.

I use the least darn sensitive primers I can find. Which right now are CCI #34's. Never, ever, ever use Federals in a Garand.

I seat all primers by hand and verify that each is below the case head.

I use 47.0 grains IMR 4895 with 168's, I use 47.5 grains with 150's. Never hurts to cut by a half grain. I consider the 168 grain as a maximum. IMR 4895 is one of the most flexible powders around, was used in the 60's NM ammo, and it shoots just great in a Garand. Why re invent the wheel?

I seat bullets to LT 3.30" . Mag length is about 3.3", if you use 168's or 150's, they are not jump sensitive so seat them for function.

Always load single shots with a SLED. Never drop a bolt on a round in the chamber. If you don't have a SLED, lower the bolt half way before releasing.

Point the darn thing away from anything you do not want shot incase the rifle slamfires. This is true of all semi autos.

[Longdayjake]

You can also use the prvi .30-06 m2 ball. Its affordable and pretty dang accurate stuff.

[olyinaz]

The CMP also offers a refurbished mil-spec Garand that will look and shoot as new.

Absolutely you should consider a Garand! Just get educated and you'll be fine.

Regards,
Oly

[olyinaz]

Remington sells a 150gr FMJ loading also. It certainly seems as if it's intended for mil-surp shooters. Anyone know if it's safe for Garands?

Thanks,
Oly

[ChicagoTex]

Remington sells a 150gr FMJ loading also. It certainly seems as if it's intended for mil-surp shooters. Anyone know if it's safe for Garands?

Nope, Remington doesn't make anything that's Garand-safe.

[TerminalVelocity16]

I fairly recently bough a rebuilt Garand from a guy who does it privately. Couldn't be happier with it, although the price was a little steep. This is a road that you might be willing to take, comes with a new barrel so you don't have to worry about accuracy dropping off. Buying M1's from the CMP with a decent barrel life left could be hit or miss. But you could aways buy a CMP and just swap out for a new barrel. like everyone said before, no factory ammo. I reload my own, and sometimes buy milsurp. It's just a little dirtier. Mosin's are great too, extremely cheap to buy and shoot, but they might be lacking in the barrel life department. Just know what your looking for if you buy one. Most will shoot about 1.5-2 MOA so it won't win any awards, but it will certainly be good enough to hit a deer out to 150 yds or so, or just paper if you wish. good luck.

-Term

[MacGille]

HOGWASH, don't believe the M1 can't or won't fire modern commercial ammo. If you stay with the 150 gr. bullet at 2900 or less FPS, or the 168 gr. bullet at 2800 FPS or less you will never have a problem with an M1.

Some people have tried to use hot ammo with heavier bullets and have bent the operating rod. Look on the box and stay with STANDARD loads and you will have no problem. Hot loads, ball powder, heavy bullets are not recommended.

[ChicagoTex]

If you stay with the 150 gr. bullet at 2900 or less FPS, or the 168 gr. bullet at 2800 FPS or less you will never have a problem with an M1.

No, sir. I'm afraid that THAT is hogwash.