Pardner Protector Dilemma

[Dreaming100Straight]

Southern Pride, Thank you for that. I have read most of it and it seems the fairest one I have seen of the PP. There were a few minor issues I wondered about, but one caught my eye

I believe something was said in that review about The letters REP stamped on the barrel. Maybe I read it somewhere. They are not necessarily a Remington mark but a mark for "Republic Steel" as in Republic of China. At least per http://www.jouster.com/forums/archiv...php?t-589.html

The short LOP got my attention. That is quite a bit of a discrepancy from specs and depending on the application and characteristics of the user it is pretty small. (Some would want a short LOP, but then they would want it even shorter to allow for body armor.)

I don't understand the concern over whether the PP is 922r compliant if that concerns semi automatics.

[semi_problomatic]

Hate to say this dreaming, but you're completely wrong. Republic steel is a company based out of ohio. Was one of the third largest US steel producers.

The "republic of china" ended in 1949 and is now called the people's republic of china.

REP in a circle is remington's roll mark.

"the stampings on the right side of the barrel will likely have a triangle with the number or letter inside, next to the letters REP in a circle, next to an upside down heart."
http://discussions.texasbowhunter.co.../t-169475.html

[Dreaming100Straight]

It looks like I may be wrong about what REP stands for. If it is Republic Steel, a quick Google indicates that the company has been defunct since 1984. Still, REP. is not necessarily Remington's proof mark.

Looking back to that article I found where the writer talks about the "proof mark" on the barrel. Look at the photo and how it is crudely stamped on the barrel. Instead of an "R" following "R.E.P." in an oval it has what looks like two letters; "iT". Semi-P made that claim on a thread about a metallurgy report that appears to be the basis for claims that the steel in the PP is better than Remington's. I didn't see what he was looking at and cannot comment on it. No one can find the alleged report.

Lastly, without a definitive statement from one of the companies I wouldn't rely on what anyone says about the meaning of those stamps. If the mark on the barrel depicted in this article is a Remington proof mark, that does NOT mean the barrel was manufactured by or for Remington. It could mean that Marlin, which markets the PP under H&R Richardson submits them to Remington for proof testing, if it even means that.

[southernpride]

You're welcome Dreaming. Yes, it did seem like a non-biased review. I also noticed it was done in January 2013 (if I read that correctly), so it is quite recent.

Thanks again everyone for all the facts, opinions and a little bit of drama sprinkled in.

[semi_problomatic]

http://www.republicengineered.com/

Pretty recent if defunct in 1984....

"Semi-P made that claim on a thread about a metallurgy report that appears to be the basis for claims that the steel in the PP is better than Remington's. I didn't see what he was looking at and cannot comment on it. No one can find the alleged report."

Where?

If the mark on the barrel depicted in this article is a Remington proof mark, that does NOT mean the barrel was manufactured by or for Remington. It could mean that Marlin, which markets the PP under H&R Richardson submits them to Remington for proof testing, if it even means that.

What if the barrels only have remington's proof mark, and warranty barrel issues are sent to the remington plant, while other issues are sent to service centers? Also, to get a new barrel fitted you send it to the remington plant?
ATTN: Barrel Accessory Offer
14 Hoefler Ave
Ilion, NY 13357
http://www.hr1871.com/support/accessoryprogram.asp

http://www.remington.com/pages/our-c...pany-info.aspx

Oh, and why are PP shipped complete without barrels to the ny plant and fitted with barrels there? And lastly, why are PP barrels stamped with the NY plant's address on them?

[Dreaming100Straight]

This is my last word for you.

I suggest you read the about page for Republic Steel and focus on REP. What you have is not the same company as the one I said was defunct, even if the current company can be traced through mergers and name changes to the former. Basically, the current company is sub of a Mexican company.

As for you what ifs, to me they make no sense. If you were more specific they might. Even if "Remington" did barrel warranty work, that would not mean it manufactured the barrel. Moreover, I wonder ifyou are confusing H&R with Remington. While H&R is owned by Marlin the last I looked, and Marlin is owned by the same holding company that owns Remington, and they share some facilities, does not mean that they are the same companies.

Specifically, why do you say that Remington does the warranty work or the fitting for the barrels. Are you claiming that the barrels don't come from China? Why do you say that the PP is imported without barrels? For that matter, even if Remington fits them (accessory barrels) how does that make Remington the manufacturer of any part of the Pardner?

[semi_problomatic]

I suggest you read the about page for Republic Steel and focus on REP. What you have is not the same company as the one I said was defunct, even if the current company can be traced through mergers and name changes to the former. Basically, the current company is sub of a Mexican company.

It looks like I may be wrong about what REP stands for. If it is Republic Steel, a quick Google indicates that the company has been defunct since 1984. Still, REP. is not necessarily Remington's proof mark.

I believe something was said in that review about The letters REP stamped on the barrel. Maybe I read it somewhere. They are not necessarily a Remington mark but a mark for "Republic Steel" as in Republic of China. At least per http://www.jouster.com/forums/archiv...php?t-589.html

I suggest you quit making up false information to support your agenda. Maybe do a slight bit of research if you have no idea what you're talking about.

Older Remington 700 I'm restoring


My pardner protector


Notice the similarities?

"Specifically, why do you say that Remington does the warranty work or the fitting for the barrels. "

I know it's hard to find, but google any warranty work done to H&R's

"Why do you say that the PP is imported without barrels?"

From the owner's manual: •WARNING: Except for installation of the barrel, your gun was
shipped fully assembled. It should not be used or disassembled without reading and understanding the instructions in this manual.

[SoilworK777]

your gun was shipped fully assembled

I think it means that the gun was shipped fully assembled to the FFL you're buying it from when new. That might be a disclaimer in case something on the gun was missing when you opened the box.

Personally, I don't think that the H&R's are shipped without a barrel. The parkerizing on the receiver and mag tube seems to be of the same quality/finish as that of the the barrel.

[semi_problomatic]

Maybe, but the barrels are attached in the box where you buy them from, and barrels have to be "fit" at the plant. So I'm not sure why they'd install a barrel, uninstall it, and ship it in a box long to hold it only for the company it goes to to reopen it and refit the barrel. But I've never unloaded them from the truck.

Oh yeah, and a quick call to H&R says that the barrels are manufactured in New York

[SoilworK777]

the barrels are manufactured in New York

That's interesting.

I wonder if that has something to do with Remington moving the barrel lug up on some of their newer models of 870s.

http://www.remington.com/en/products...blackhawk.aspx

[semi_problomatic]

I put a link up a few post ago about the 5 shot tube 870 HD's as well.

The pardner is like the pre flexitab 870P's minus some furniture and barrel extension. They got around using the old bolt carrier design and remington jam by changing the lifter. If you look at the 870P's upgrades (orange follower, machined extractor, sling studs, steel trigger gaurd, etc) the PP already has it. The differences being the odd size mag tube, some furniture, and finish.

[Dreaming100Straight]

I am done with Semi-Problematic and am not going to get down in the mud with him. You can judge for yourselves who is making things up.

Barrels for H&R single shots are manufactured in New York. Barrels for H&R Pardner Protectors are imported from China. H&R then has them proof tested and that is the Remington proof mark.

I find it incredible that anyone would argue that language in a owner's manual about shipping without the barrel installed means guns are shipped from China without barrels.

WARNING: Except for installation of the barrel, your gun was
shipped fully assembled. It should not be used or disassembled
without reading and understanding the instructions in this manual.

The manual then instructs how to install the barrel that Problomatic says it didn't ship with.

Just ask any LGS if the Pardner comes to it without the barrel.

Se the triangle on the Remington barrel. That indicates magnuflux testing and I believe that is done to all Remington barrels. Do you see it on the Chinese barrel?

Now the person talking about agendas is telling you that the Pardner Protector is like the pre-flex tab 870P's minus some furniture and a barrel extension. It is anything but an 870P.

[Panfisher]

Sorry I bypassed much of the postings. For only $200 why not go ahead and buy a Pardner, shot the heck out of it for a year. You will spend more than $200 in ammo doing that, then if you don't like it sell it for $150 or so and look for a Rem or Mossberg. I remember a few years a go when everyone said how bad the Mossbergs were, rattly, clunky, plastic stocks etc. etc., however as time has passed and the majority of the old 500A's are still shooting, suddenly you don't hear those comments. I have a Rem 870 Exp., that I like just fine, happens to be a .20 ga I bought for my son, also had a short barreled 500A for a few years, never felt handicapped by either one.

[semi_problomatic]

Dreaming.... Call H&R and ask yourself. I already did and they specifically said the Pardner pump barrels were MANUFACTURED in Ilion, NY. Thats not opinion, that is fact. The number is 866-776-9292. You'll get a menu, press 4. You'll get another menu, press 1. That will lead you to a helpful representative who can look it up for you. I'm not in the mud. I'm simply correcting your completely made-up and false claims.

And as far as it being an 870P with different furniture, prove otherwise. I already gave my reasons for stating why. Compare the two yourself. The pardner is head and shoulders above the express and on par with the 870P as far as components.

Again, if you would stop making things up and actually do just a smidgeon of research, you wouldn't be left inventing wild claims.

[SoilworK777]

See the triangle on the Remington barrel. That indicates magnuflux testing and I believe that is done to all Remington barrels. Do you see it on the Chinese barrel?

My Hawk 982 doesn't have a triangle on the barrel. It has 2" 3/4 - 3" stamped on it. Nothing more.

My recently acquired 870's barrel has quite a few numbers and symbols on it. Besides the manufacturing date code, it has:

the number 44
a diamond shape
a triangle with a "C" inside
another triangle with a raised center (might be an "A", but I don't think so)
the REP symbol
a square with a "U" inside
and a sideways "T" like this: l-

If Remington routinely puts all that stuff on the barrels they make, you'd think that the Protector's barrels would have around the same amount of markings.

[Dreaming100Straight]

The barrels for the Pardner Pumps are not made in New York. I do not know who he spoke with but feel free to confirm for yourselves where they come from. I called earlier and confirmed that they are imported and then proof tested; that only the single shot barrels are made in New York.

What can I say, the man thinks that because the manual instructs you to install the barrel on the gun that means they were imported sans barrels.

I have nothing more to say regarding Semi-Problomatic. Perhaps he believes what he writes, perhaps not. I do not know. I only know while there are some kernels of fact in what he comes up with, much of his so called facts just are not real.

[semi_problomatic]

It looks like I may be wrong about what REP stands for. If it is Republic Steel, a quick Google indicates that the company has been defunct since 1984. Still, REP. is not necessarily Remington's proof mark.

I believe something was said in that review about The letters REP stamped on the barrel. Maybe I read it somewhere. They are not necessarily a Remington mark but a mark for "Republic Steel" as in Republic of China. At least per http://www.jouster.com/forums/archiv...php?t-589.html

[Dreaming100Straight]

I know I said that I had nothing more to say regarding Semi-P, but less anyone not think that I misled anyone regarding Republic Steel, which now does not appear to have anything to do with the REP barrel mark, just look at the about page for that company. A few excerpts:

In 1984, Republic Steel merged with LTV Corp.'s Jones & Laughlin division to form LTV Steel.

That is consistent with what I saw elsewhere saying that the company was defunct as of 1984.

For some reason Semi bolded where I said the company was a subsidiary of a Mexican company.

The company was acquired in July 2005 by Industrias CH, S.A de C.V. (ICH), a rapidly growing steel producer and processor based in Mexico City. Republic Steel is a subsidiary of Grupo Simec, Guadalajara, Mexico, of which ICH is the majority owner.

I gave you the link to what led me to believe that REP was not a Remington Proof mark, as it turns out it was.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Closed for puerile bickering