1.5fg Swiss

reinert · March 10, 2020, 11:35 AM

Up until now, I've been using exclusively GOEX 2fg in my round ball, m.l.s. If any of you guys have some info on using 1.5fg Swiss in your flinters or Percussion guns, I'd sure appreciate some insight on performance. I did look a bit at the search engine here, but didn't find much as to my question. I have a fair supply of 1.5 Swiss on hand, and wanted to try some out in my .54 flinter. I use a 90 grn. charge commonly in it now, but heard I should cut back maybe 20% on the charge to equal out as to the GOEX.

What's the price o' beaver? Would appreciate any insights.

Jim Watson · March 11, 2020, 08:51 AM

I am a BPCR shooter and prefer Swiss 1 1/2 but don't think it is 20% hotter than GOEX.
.38-55 Winchester Single Shot. 336 gr Lyman w SPG lube.
46 gr Swiss 1.5 1241 fps. standard deviation 2
46 gr Goex FFFg 1250 fps. standard deviation 4

Sorry it's not the same granulation, but that's what I've got.

reinert · March 11, 2020, 10:32 AM

Yeah, I use it in my 45/90 for the long range stuff. I've just never tried it in my m.l.s., and will try it in my .54 flinter at some point when convenient. I surfed a bit for flinter usage, but didn't really come up with a whole lot. Can't imagine it not working well, maybe better (?) than the old standard GOEX. The 20% thing was just a comment I read lurking around the web. I can't imagine a charge of Swiss by volume as to GOEX would cause any major changes in performance; just a little more muzzle velocity, I'm thinking. (?) I was also thinking it may/should be easier on the clean-up session after shooting. I guess we'll see.

T. O'Heir · March 11, 2020, 01:17 PM

"...wanted to try some...heard I should..." You have proper data? The latter is no different than hear say for smokeless powder.

reinert · March 11, 2020, 01:56 PM

T. O'Heir, can YOU share any info regarding my question? Do you have experience with 1.5fg Swiss powder in a patched round ball muzzleloader? Just another question here is all. I thought this might be a fair enough topic for discussion. If not, I'll call it a wrap...

Jim Watson · March 11, 2020, 02:05 PM

A friend is all enthused with flintlocks lately. I know he had some Swiss left over from BPCR but also some Goex. I'll ask which he is using.

reinert · March 11, 2020, 02:46 PM

Thanks Jim, do appreciate it.

reinert · March 11, 2020, 07:16 PM

I believe I came across some good info on flinters using 1.5fg Swiss BLACK powder for anyone who'd like to know, or has some sort of curiosity in this thread. Here it is:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/th...-powder.50052/ (Post #8, especially)

Hey Jim W., maybe your flinter bud might check this out. Seems like it works pretty well in a flintlock, and again, thanks for your reply. Your posts are always good wherever you add a comment.

mehavey · March 11, 2020, 10:34 PM

ALSO:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/t...goex-2f.99489/
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...g-vs-Swiss-1-5
http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13062

I admit to shooting both GoEx & Swiss regularly.
But the Swiss is exclusively for BPCR.

reinert · March 12, 2020, 08:22 AM

Thanks, mehavey, for those links. That's good stuff there, and helpful for what I was looking for. Appreciate it. I filled the 90 grn. charger I use for my .54 flinter with standard GOEX 2fg and weighed it. It came out as 88 grns. on my digital scale. I then filled the same charger the same way with 1.5fg Swiss. It weighed 96 grns. So, there's a clue on the the 15-20% cut-back info I read ("heard") about.

When I go out to shoot my flinter with the Swiss, I'll use my adjustable measure and set it at 80 grns. to charge the clean barrel. I'll then use my hunting lube on a patch for the r.b. and take the shot. Right now, I'm mostly interested on ignition comparison between the two powders. The GOEX powder always gave good ignition, so I should be able to tell pretty quick how the Swiss reacts to the pan flash. Then, my next shot will be with a spit patch to "see" how it loads. With the thousands and thousands of round ball loads I've shot through the years, I know how GOEX powder loads after a shot using my patch lube for a hunting load.

Along with an accuracy assessment, whatever difference in the loading after a fouled bore with the Swiss will be what I'm looking to experience. Cleaning after the session will be interesting, too. Can't shoot today, Old Man Winter's blowing his white stuff around this morning. I'll report my findings after my next opportunity at the range.

reinert · March 12, 2020, 06:21 PM

I got to try out the 1.5fg Swiss this afternoon. Used the 80 grn. setting on the measure, and loaded a bear oil patched, .527 r.b., rammed down on the charge snugly. I primed the rifle as I always do and squeezed off the shot. Ignition was every bit as good as with my old standard GOEX 2fg powder charge (90 grns.). My next shot, using the same charge of Swiss, and using a spit patch, loaded very easily (quite pleased about that) and ignition at the shot was as my first shot. I shot 3 more times with the same results. Easy loading with the spit patch, and no wiping between the 5 shots. I was very well pleased with this first time out using Swiss for the first time in any of my m.l.s. BTW, the weather at the range today was sunny, 35 degrees, with a bit of wind L to R.

I shot over my daypack at our local range sitting at the 50 yd. bench. My group measured just a tad over 2," and centered quite well (surprised me, actually). All good. I'll definitely use the Swiss again, maybe all the time if it always works like it did today. Can't imagine why not.

My riflegun:

.54 cal. Lancaster styled custom rifle.
Chambers deluxe Siler flintlock.
Single trigger (with a great hunting trigger pull as to my liking).
15/16ths, 36" Green Mountain barrel.
Traditional barrel front and rear sights (silver blade front).
13 7/8ths length of pull.

Load:

80 grn. by measure of 1.5fg Swiss black powder (actually weighed 90 grns. on my digital scale).
.527 r.b., Lee single cavity mould.
.026" tight weave pillow ticking patch material.
6/8ths knapped, Tom Fuller English flint.
Priming powder was ceramic mortar and pestle ground 1.5fg Swiss.
Patch lube on first shot was rendered black bear oil (not grease).
Shots 2-5 were spit patched. I found two spent patches at the range, and they looked like they might be used again.

The powder fouling was unbelievably clean compared to the old standard GOEX 2fg; no comparison. The first thing I noticed was how clean the pan was after a firing. I always run my thumb under the frizzen where it sits over the pan to clear the fouling there for the next shot, and there was near NONE with
this test, all shots. I also run my thumb over the striking face of the frizzen, and my index finger over the edge of the flint to clean it; near nothing there, a real good thing! I was really quite impressed.

Cleaning the rifle was a pleasing experience, too. I use a stainless steel bowl full of really hot water (no dish soap, just water) and I remove the barrel from the stock when I clean, submerged at the touch hole. With just a couple of patches on a jag pumping water throughout the barrel, I couldn't even hardly determine any "black water" in the bowl. The old GOEX was always muddy to the bottom. The Swiss more than most definitely is the cleaner burning powder, no question.
After reading some of the comments from the links mehavey sent on, I didn't quite know what to expect as to performance. But the whole experiment today took any doubt away that Swiss 1.5fg works very well, at least in my Ol' Lancaster.

I then lightly oiled the bore, cleaned up and reset the flint in the lock, and put the rifle back in the safe. A good day at the range! Hope this info might be helpful.

rodwhaincamo · March 12, 2020, 06:39 PM

Might want to give Olde Eynsford by Goex a try. It was formulated to compete with Swiss but has a price just a hair over their standard stuff.

reinert · March 12, 2020, 08:49 PM

I actually have some O/E 1.5f that I plan on using in my 45/90 somewhere down the trail. And since I have a fair amount of Swiss 1.5 for my B.P.C.R. stuff, I had some extra there I could mess with in the m.l.s, and finally got around to trying it out in my flinter. Really glad it worked out. Probably try the caplock next. Oughta be good there, too!

rodwhaincamo · March 12, 2020, 09:19 PM

How do you feel the Swiss compares to the Olde E in your other guns? From most I hear the results are quite similar, but a couple seem to claim Olde E just doesn’t do so well. One in particular stated 3F gave him horrendous results, which is what I’ve been using in my revolvers and .50 cal Deerstalker (I’ve yet to truly work on an accurate load trying variations other than powder charges).

reinert · March 12, 2020, 10:00 PM

I haven’t tried the O/E yet, but I’ve used both standard GOEX 2fg and the Swiss in my 45/90. Both give accurate loads in my Sharps, but the Swiss is far and away much cleaner burning. Cleaning brass after a shooting session is a much lesser task using Swiss, too. At some point I’ll give the O/E a try in both my Sharps and muzzleloaders. Another test!

March 10, 2020, 11:35 AM	#1
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	1.5fg Swiss Up until now, I've been using exclusively GOEX 2fg in my round ball, m.l.s. If any of you guys have some info on using 1.5fg Swiss in your flinters or Percussion guns, I'd sure appreciate some insight on performance. I did look a bit at the search engine here, but didn't find much as to my question. I have a fair supply of 1.5 Swiss on hand, and wanted to try some out in my .54 flinter. I use a 90 grn. charge commonly in it now, but heard I should cut back maybe 20% on the charge to equal out as to the GOEX. What's the price o' beaver? Would appreciate any insights.

March 11, 2020, 01:17 PM	#4
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...wanted to try some...heard I should..." You have proper data? The latter is no different than hear say for smokeless powder. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

March 11, 2020, 08:51 AM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,544	I am a BPCR shooter and prefer Swiss 1 1/2 but don't think it is 20% hotter than GOEX. .38-55 Winchester Single Shot. 336 gr Lyman w SPG lube. 46 gr Swiss 1.5 1241 fps. standard deviation 2 46 gr Goex FFFg 1250 fps. standard deviation 4 Sorry it's not the same granulation, but that's what I've got.

March 11, 2020, 10:32 AM	#3
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	Yeah, I use it in my 45/90 for the long range stuff. I've just never tried it in my m.l.s., and will try it in my .54 flinter at some point when convenient. I surfed a bit for flinter usage, but didn't really come up with a whole lot. Can't imagine it not working well, maybe better (?) than the old standard GOEX. The 20% thing was just a comment I read lurking around the web. I can't imagine a charge of Swiss by volume as to GOEX would cause any major changes in performance; just a little more muzzle velocity, I'm thinking. (?) I was also thinking it may/should be easier on the clean-up session after shooting. I guess we'll see.

March 11, 2020, 01:56 PM	#5
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	T. O'Heir, can YOU share any info regarding my question? Do you have experience with 1.5fg Swiss powder in a patched round ball muzzleloader? Just another question here is all. I thought this might be a fair enough topic for discussion. If not, I'll call it a wrap...

March 11, 2020, 02:05 PM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,544	A friend is all enthused with flintlocks lately. I know he had some Swiss left over from BPCR but also some Goex. I'll ask which he is using.

March 11, 2020, 02:46 PM	#7
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	Thanks Jim, do appreciate it.

March 11, 2020, 07:16 PM	#8
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	I believe I came across some good info on flinters using 1.5fg Swiss BLACK powder for anyone who'd like to know, or has some sort of curiosity in this thread. Here it is: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/th...-powder.50052/ (Post #8, especially) Hey Jim W., maybe your flinter bud might check this out. Seems like it works pretty well in a flintlock, and again, thanks for your reply. Your posts are always good wherever you add a comment.

March 11, 2020, 10:34 PM	#9
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,897	ALSO: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/t...goex-2f.99489/ http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...g-vs-Swiss-1-5 http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13062 I admit to shooting both GoEx & Swiss regularly. But the Swiss is exclusively for BPCR.

March 12, 2020, 08:22 AM	#10
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	Thanks, mehavey, for those links. That's good stuff there, and helpful for what I was looking for. Appreciate it. I filled the 90 grn. charger I use for my .54 flinter with standard GOEX 2fg and weighed it. It came out as 88 grns. on my digital scale. I then filled the same charger the same way with 1.5fg Swiss. It weighed 96 grns. So, there's a clue on the the 15-20% cut-back info I read ("heard") about. When I go out to shoot my flinter with the Swiss, I'll use my adjustable measure and set it at 80 grns. to charge the clean barrel. I'll then use my hunting lube on a patch for the r.b. and take the shot. Right now, I'm mostly interested on ignition comparison between the two powders. The GOEX powder always gave good ignition, so I should be able to tell pretty quick how the Swiss reacts to the pan flash. Then, my next shot will be with a spit patch to "see" how it loads. With the thousands and thousands of round ball loads I've shot through the years, I know how GOEX powder loads after a shot using my patch lube for a hunting load. Along with an accuracy assessment, whatever difference in the loading after a fouled bore with the Swiss will be what I'm looking to experience. Cleaning after the session will be interesting, too. Can't shoot today, Old Man Winter's blowing his white stuff around this morning. I'll report my findings after my next opportunity at the range.

March 12, 2020, 06:21 PM	#11
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	I got to try out the 1.5fg Swiss this afternoon. Used the 80 grn. setting on the measure, and loaded a bear oil patched, .527 r.b., rammed down on the charge snugly. I primed the rifle as I always do and squeezed off the shot. Ignition was every bit as good as with my old standard GOEX 2fg powder charge (90 grns.). My next shot, using the same charge of Swiss, and using a spit patch, loaded very easily (quite pleased about that) and ignition at the shot was as my first shot. I shot 3 more times with the same results. Easy loading with the spit patch, and no wiping between the 5 shots. I was very well pleased with this first time out using Swiss for the first time in any of my m.l.s. BTW, the weather at the range today was sunny, 35 degrees, with a bit of wind L to R. I shot over my daypack at our local range sitting at the 50 yd. bench. My group measured just a tad over 2," and centered quite well (surprised me, actually). All good. I'll definitely use the Swiss again, maybe all the time if it always works like it did today. Can't imagine why not. My riflegun: .54 cal. Lancaster styled custom rifle. Chambers deluxe Siler flintlock. Single trigger (with a great hunting trigger pull as to my liking). 15/16ths, 36" Green Mountain barrel. Traditional barrel front and rear sights (silver blade front). 13 7/8ths length of pull. Load: 80 grn. by measure of 1.5fg Swiss black powder (actually weighed 90 grns. on my digital scale). .527 r.b., Lee single cavity mould. .026" tight weave pillow ticking patch material. 6/8ths knapped, Tom Fuller English flint. Priming powder was ceramic mortar and pestle ground 1.5fg Swiss. Patch lube on first shot was rendered black bear oil (not grease). Shots 2-5 were spit patched. I found two spent patches at the range, and they looked like they might be used again. The powder fouling was unbelievably clean compared to the old standard GOEX 2fg; no comparison. The first thing I noticed was how clean the pan was after a firing. I always run my thumb under the frizzen where it sits over the pan to clear the fouling there for the next shot, and there was near NONE with this test, all shots. I also run my thumb over the striking face of the frizzen, and my index finger over the edge of the flint to clean it; near nothing there, a real good thing! I was really quite impressed. Cleaning the rifle was a pleasing experience, too. I use a stainless steel bowl full of really hot water (no dish soap, just water) and I remove the barrel from the stock when I clean, submerged at the touch hole. With just a couple of patches on a jag pumping water throughout the barrel, I couldn't even hardly determine any "black water" in the bowl. The old GOEX was always muddy to the bottom. The Swiss more than most definitely is the cleaner burning powder, no question. After reading some of the comments from the links mehavey sent on, I didn't quite know what to expect as to performance. But the whole experiment today took any doubt away that Swiss 1.5fg works very well, at least in my Ol' Lancaster. I then lightly oiled the bore, cleaned up and reset the flint in the lock, and put the rifle back in the safe. A good day at the range! Hope this info might be helpful.

March 12, 2020, 06:39 PM	#12
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	Might want to give Olde Eynsford by Goex a try. It was formulated to compete with Swiss but has a price just a hair over their standard stuff.

March 12, 2020, 08:49 PM	#13
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	I actually have some O/E 1.5f that I plan on using in my 45/90 somewhere down the trail. And since I have a fair amount of Swiss 1.5 for my B.P.C.R. stuff, I had some extra there I could mess with in the m.l.s, and finally got around to trying it out in my flinter. Really glad it worked out. Probably try the caplock next. Oughta be good there, too!

March 12, 2020, 09:19 PM	#14
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	How do you feel the Swiss compares to the Olde E in your other guns? From most I hear the results are quite similar, but a couple seem to claim Olde E just doesn’t do so well. One in particular stated 3F gave him horrendous results, which is what I’ve been using in my revolvers and .50 cal Deerstalker (I’ve yet to truly work on an accurate load trying variations other than powder charges).

March 12, 2020, 10:00 PM	#15
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	I haven’t tried the O/E yet, but I’ve used both standard GOEX 2fg and the Swiss in my 45/90. Both give accurate loads in my Sharps, but the Swiss is far and away much cleaner burning. Cleaning brass after a shooting session is a much lesser task using Swiss, too. At some point I’ll give the O/E a try in both my Sharps and muzzleloaders. Another test!