Age to buy handguns

[Photon Guy]

In some states supposedly you can buy handguns at 18 but in most states you have to be 21. Personally I see nothing wrong with making the age 18 to buy handguns in all states. After all, you can get drafted at 18, you can sign up at 18 so why shouldn't you be able to buy handguns at 18? And besides, the driving age is younger than 18 in all 50 states.

[weblance]

The Gun Control Act of 1968 made it illegal for a gun dealer to legally sell a handgun to anyone under the age of 21. “Sales of handguns and ammunition for handguns are limited to persons 21 years of age and older,” the ATF’s official Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide states.

[kilimanjaro]

The draft ended in 1973, the argument is getting lame.

Right now in Washington, there is a push to raise the smoking age to 21 from 18. The argument against that proposal is, 'if they're old enough to be in a foxhole', you know the rest of it.

The problem with that analogy is, a very small percentage of the 18-year olds are enlisting in the military.

[Pahoo]

After all, you can get drafted at 18, you can sign up at 18 so why shouldn't you be able to buy handguns at 18?

There has to be a standard and one could be all over the age spectrum on this. It's "my" opinion that age 21, is a realistic place to be and one could also argue that there are folks over 21, that should never own a handgun. ...

I recall the first time I went home on leave and tried to get served in a bar. I was in uniform and the bartender asked for proof of age. An old Vet. sitting next to me told the bartender to give me a beer as what the heck, he's in uniform. .....

I might also add that I was 14yrs. old when I got me first handgun .....

Be Safe !!!

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Photon Guy

...the driving age is younger than 18 in all 50 states....

However:

...The risk of motor vehicle crashes is higher among 16-19-year-olds than among any other age group. In fact, per mile driven, teen drivers ages 16 to 19 are nearly three times more likely than drivers aged 20 and older to be in a fatal crash.....

[rwilson452]

It's true an FFL can't sell a handgun to anyone under 21. Here in PA the sheriff can perform the necessary paperwork. Most will not. However, a parent or grandparent can give their son/daughter, grandson/granddaughter a handgun with no paperwork what so ever. Again, this is in PA, other states have their own laws.

As an add: Both must be residents of PA. Interstate transfers of handguns must go via an FFL. always.

[turkeestalker]

As rwillson452 points out for PA, Missouri also allows the 'gifting' of a handgun to a family member that is younger than the age of 21, though there are some stipulations. That person under the age of 21 is still not legally able to purchase ammunition themselves, that can be used in a handgun.

[tyme]

Right now in Washington, there is a push to raise the smoking age to 21 from 18. The argument against that proposal is, 'if they're old enough to be in a foxhole', you know the rest of it.

The problem with that analogy is, a very small percentage of the 18-year olds are enlisting in the military.

So the argument goes that 18-year-olds are only trustworthy enough to have or carry guns if they've been (minorly) brainwashed (basic training—basic discipline, at least general obedience to authority, and all that)?

That seems to me like an argument for mandatory military service like some other countries have. It doesn't seem like a reason to forbid young adults—who haven't had that kind of discipline—from owning guns because they haven't reached a magical age. Let's be honest, those who weren't very responsible from 18-21 are still not likely to be responsible at 21. Maybe at 25. Should we cater to a lower common denominator and raise the driving, drinking, and gun owning age to 25? Isn't there a better actuarial basis for that? That's approximately the age when car insurance rates start declining, right?

If a person isn't responsible enough to own a gun, should they be allowed to vote? Do they have sufficiently developed executive function to make complex political decisions?

[2ndsojourn]

"Do they have sufficiently developed executive function to make complex political decisions? "

No, that's why Bernie Sanders is polling so high.

So I can understand why there probably won't be a push to change the law to allow 18 year olds to buy handguns.

[Photon Guy]

The Gun Control Act of 1968 made it illegal for a gun dealer to legally sell a handgun to anyone under the age of 21. “Sales of handguns and ammunition for handguns are limited to persons 21 years of age and older,” the ATF’s official Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide states.

An 18 year old might not be able to buy a handgun from an FFL dealer but supposedly they can legally buy handguns through private sales, in some states.

[Photon Guy]

The draft ended in 1973, the argument is getting lame.

Right now in Washington, there is a push to raise the smoking age to 21 from 18. The argument against that proposal is, 'if they're old enough to be in a foxhole', you know the rest of it.

The problem with that analogy is, a very small percentage of the 18-year olds are enlisting in the military.

Aside from the draft just the fact that you can sign up at 18 should be grounds for making the age to purchase a handgun 18. True, most 18 year olds don't serve and I would also think that most 18 year olds don't buy or acquire handguns, but just the fact that you can serve at 18 should be good enough to make it that you can buy handguns at 18. After all, if you can serve at 18 that means they're trusting you with weapons at that age.

[Photon Guy]

There has to be a standard and one could be all over the age spectrum on this. It's "my" opinion that age 21, is a realistic place to be and one could also argue that there are folks over 21, that should never own a handgun. ...

I recall the first time I went home on leave and tried to get served in a bar. I was in uniform and the bartender asked for proof of age. An old Vet. sitting next to me told the bartender to give me a beer as what the heck, he's in uniform. .....

I might also add that I was 14yrs. old when I got me first handgun .....

There are people that shouldn't own handguns at 21 or ever and as it is I think other factors aside from age should weigh much more heavily in determining who can and can't own handguns. As it is you can't have a criminal history or a history of mental illness and I think those things should carry more weight than the person's age but if they are going to attach an age to it it should be 18 since you can serve at 18, especially considering the fact that if you serve you will be handling weapons.

As for you getting your first handgun at 14 maybe you were ready at that age. As for when a person is ready that varies, some people are never ready but I think being ready is much more important than being old enough.

[Photon Guy]

...The risk of motor vehicle crashes is higher among 16-19-year-olds than among any other age group. In fact, per mile driven, teen drivers ages 16 to 19 are nearly three times more likely than drivers aged 20 and older to be in a fatal crash.....

That could be due to lack of experience rather than low age. Considering that in most states you have to be 16 to drive, by the time you're 19 you will only have 3 years of driving experience as opposed to a 30 year old who would have 14 years of experience provided they started driving as soon as they were old enough.

"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

That's why people should take classes or undergo some sort of training when they get their first guns.

[Photon Guy]

So the argument goes that 18-year-olds are only trustworthy enough to have or carry guns if they've been (minorly) brainwashed (basic training—basic discipline, at least general obedience to authority, and all that)?

No, just the fact that you can serve at 18 should be reason enough to make the age to buy handguns 18. Not that you have to serve but just the fact you can serve.

[TMD]

FYI you can actually enlist at 17 not 18

[Pahoo]

FYI you can actually enlist at 17 not 18

This is true but for 17, you have to have parental or guardian approval. ....

Be Safe !!!

[manta49]

In this part of the UK you can buy one age 18 i didint know it was 21 in America.

[dakota.potts]

Never made much sense to me. As a 20 year old, I can walk into a store and buy a Barrett .50 BMG or an AK 47. I can have a handgun (I was given one as a gift) and keep it in my car. In my state, there's technically no law against carrying a loaded rifle as long as I'm not causing panic.

All of that, and I'm not allowed the "privilege" of purchasing or carrying a handgun. Many people aged 18-20 have full time jobs (perhaps night shift) and certainly have their own lives. They can be married and many have kids. I don't understand how a person who is otherwise a fully functioning and independent adult is somehow not allowed to exercise that facet of the right. Unfortunately, humanity's propensity for seeing the younger generation as stupid or incompetent precedes any meaningful change on the matter in most cases.

[TimSr]

I've noticed a trend that kids are entering mental adulthood at later and later ages. The age at which they leave home keeps getting higher. Adult voters are clueless enough without adding highschoolers.

I'm for making the age of adulthood 21, for drinking, smoking, buying guns, or voting, except those who are self supporting, serving in military, or honorably discharged.

[rwilson452]

This is true but for 17, you have to have parental or guardian approval. ....

Unless it has changed in the last 35 years, you can enlist at 17 with parental approval. At 17.5 you can do enlist on your own. When I enlisted for the first time at a month shy of 17.5 my dad blessed it. I don't know if they still do it but my enlistment was on a "Minority Enlistment" My enlistment expired on my 21st birthday. I enlisted early to take advantage of a special school program. Stayed for the whole 20.

[Technosavant]

Originally Posted by Photon Guy

No, just the fact that you can serve at 18 should be reason enough to make the age to buy handguns 18. Not that you have to serve but just the fact you can serve.

Being of age to do something doesn't give you the same respect and perks of someone who actually DOES do something.

Whenever I see the "Hey, I could be drafted" bit trotted out it always comes off as a whine. It may not be, but that's just how it sounds. Yes, at 18 you could be drafted. The draft has not been in effect in my lifetime... and I'm getting uncomfortably close to 40. It's ridiculous to use that as a reason for anything because it's never doing to be restarted barring something akin to WWIII.

Basically, if you want me to agree that you deserve any consideration for being of military age, then go enlist. Otherwise, the three year wait isn't that long. You want to argue for that age to be reduced? Fine, find another reason, but it's going to be a very difficult uphill fight for it... any effort to be spent easing federal firearm laws is more likely to go towards something like removing silencers from the NFA than it is speeding up handgun purchase from FFLs by three years.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by rwilson452

Unless it has changed in the last 35 years, you can enlist at 17 with parental approval. At 17.5 you can do enlist on your own.

I was 2 months shy of my 18th birthday when I enlisted, and my parents had to sign me away because I was still 17.

[44 AMP]

Basically, if you want me to agree that you deserve any consideration for being of military age, then go enlist. Otherwise, the three year wait isn't that long.

Spoken by someone getting "uncomfortably close to 40".

Well, I'm getting "uncomfortably close to 60" and the draft was a fact of life during my lifetime. And I did enlist. And I can still remember the frustration and injustice about 18 for some things, 21 for others.

You can serve at 18. You can get married at 18. They changed the law during my lifetime, so you can vote at 18. And during my lifetime, they set the federal law for buying a handgun from an FFL dealer at 21. (1968)

When I was 18, the drinking age in NY was 18. Many other states it was 21.
Some states lowered it from 21 to 18 or 19. Some of those states have since raised it back to 21. One of the more senseless ones I ran into was in a Maryland airport bar, killing time waiting on a flight home. At 18 (which I was) they would serve me beer. They could not serve me hard liquor unless I was 21!

3 years at 18 is a much larger percentage of your life than 3 years at 40, and "isn't that long" depends on your personal point of view.

I said I can still remember the frustration and what I felt at the time was injustice, but I look at it a bit differently now, because I also recognize how many people in my age group at the time that were dangerously stupid irresponsible idiots, something I did not easily see at the time. And I'm pretty sure it's been that way for every generation, before or since...

Actually responsible youths have to live with rules made to try and keep the irresponsible from doing more damage than necessary.

about this...

That could be due to lack of experience rather than low age. Considering that in most states you have to be 16 to drive, by the time you're 19 you will only have 3 years of driving experience as opposed to a 30 year old who would have 14 years of experience provided they started driving as soon as they were old enough.

There's a bit more to it than just time behind the wheel. I would be willing to bet, if you could find a statistically significant number of people who START driving at age 30, and chart their accidents for the next three years, comparing them to the 16-19year olds numbers, the teens would still have a higher rate of accidents.

Its not just driving experience that affects your judgment behind the wheel, it is total LIFE experience. True, some people never seem to grow up, but the majority do.

[rwilson452]

I seem to recall that the FBI statistics point out that most crimes are committed by an age group that ranges from 14-24. Perhaps we should raise the age to vote and buy a handgun to 25. Or perhaps fully change things as is mentioned it the fictional work By Heinlein's "Starship trooper" He suggested you can't vote unless you do several years of "public service". There is evidents to suggest that lowering the voting age to 18 was to give an advantage to the democratic party. Laws such as the LEOSA are a compromise between those that wanted it and those that didn't. Thus, you wind up with a flawed writing of the law. I see too many laws that have unintended consequences.

[JimPage]

It's a waste of bandwidth to try make sense of most gun control laws. Just know that to purchase a handgun you must be 21. Legal age for possessing a handgun varies by state.