Talk me out of buying Lee

GreenDragon · July 7, 2004, 02:59 PM

I'm totally new to reloading, got my press, scale, etc in the mail today. Current issues are:

1. I need dies (.22-250, 45-70, and 44 mag...maybe .270 later on). From what I understand neck sizing is the way to go but I want to have a FL die in my possession to be used once in a while (right?) Lee sells a handy 3-die set for about $20-25 new that would fit the bill. FL 2 die sets from other manufacturers are going for $25-35 on ebay and I'd still need to blow another 15 or so for a neck sizer die. Is there anything wrong with Lee dies?

2. I need a powder measure. I plan on measuring every charge for the .22-250 so I could probably get away with a plastic spoon, but, dammit, I don't want to be that lame. For the $20 the Lee measure w/ stand is far cheaper than anything else. I still like the looks of the RCBS if I can find a used one and make a mount for it.

Any suggestions are welcome. If I can get a 1/4" better group by buying a better set of dies then I'll do it but I don't want to just throw money away.

thanks

Jim Watson · July 7, 2004, 03:10 PM

Lee dies are ok, I have several.

I found the Lee Perfection powder measure a total flop. Inaccurate and powder hanging up in all the nooks and crannies. NOT static, it would still hang up powder after coating everything with graphite mold release.

Quartus · July 7, 2004, 03:22 PM

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...=Lee+precision

eka · July 7, 2004, 04:01 PM

I have only one experience with Lee dies. I used a three die set for .357 Sig. I was frustrated with the seating die which consistently seated the bullet to different depths. I spoke with another fellow who claimed to have the same problem with his Lee die. The rest of my dies are RCBS and Redding, which I have been very happy with. I personally wouldn't buy another Lee die set, but my experience with Lee may or may not be typical of their product in general. Hope that helps and good luck.

GLK · July 7, 2004, 04:03 PM

I personally have no experience with Lee products. I have found that there tends to be two types of people in the Lee user group. Ones that have used Lee everything with no problems and those that hate Lee products. Not sure what if anything that means, just something to think about.

Ben Swenson · July 7, 2004, 06:55 PM

Nothing wrong with Lee pistol dies. Never used their rifle dies.

Their powder measure works well enough with Hodgdon H380 (and I suspect other ball powders).

When it comes to presses, I bought three Lee single stage presses as I was starting out and gave all of them away. I prefer the RCBS Rockchucker for rifle and Dillon 550 for pistol.

Sisco · July 7, 2004, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Ones that have used Lee everything with no problems and those that hate Lee products.

I am one of the former.

rc · July 7, 2004, 07:56 PM

I bought the lee anniversary set with challenger O frame press, auto prime, perfect powder measure etc to start reloading but the press began creeking after several thousand rounds and the powder measure was flimsy and Ball powder leaked the most. Stick type would bind. If you mainly load rifle and big bore pistol I would suggest the RCBS master reloading kit for about $250 new, less used. It has all you need less dies to get started. I bought a used RCBS set to replace the lee stuff and it's still going strong on its second owner, 20+ years after its production. RCBS is higher priced because they have to make money the first time. I have a used hornady C type press that I was given used and it is cast iron and well made too. Lee dies are cheaper but they will not stay adjusted with their "O" ring easy adjustment. They will lose settings each time they are removed from the press. RCBS and hornady lock rings can be set and left alone once adjusted for a particular load. I don't like the hornady sliding seater die but it works well enough. If you want to reload volume quantities of straight walled pistol ammo, you will want a progressive press of some type. I would suggest hornady or dillon. You can use RCBS or any other standard threaded die with other brand equiptment. RCBS stuff is guaranteed for life. If they make it, they back it up... for free.... forever. I have been relatively happy with rcbs and was very unhappy with lee. But then I only paid $80 for the lee kit. I got what I paid for. rc

HSMITH · July 7, 2004, 09:05 PM

I have three Lee presses, 2 powder measures, 10+ die sets, 5 bullet molds, 2 sizer kits, auto-prime and holder kit, and umpteen other Lee products. I use them regularly, along with my other equipment from RCBS, Redding, Lyman, Hornady, Pacific, and others.

Are the Lee products the equal of others, say the Challenger press compared to the Reloader 5 from RCBS or the Perfect powder measure against the Lyman 55 for example? No, HECK NO. Not even close. Lee is so far outclassed it isn't even funny.

Are Lee products bad? No, HECK NO!!!!! Lee products represent a good value for the dollar . They work, often work well, and represent a fair price for the product delivered. You get exactly what you pay for, fair enough right? I think so.

Lee presents a workable product set to the market that lets EVERYONE get started due to drastically lower than normal prices, produce good ammunition, and learn reloading. Lee makes products that let people try reloading without sinking a fortune in it also, and there is a lot to be said for that. Lee is a valuable asset to the market for all of us also, they keep the other reloading companies prices down by offering their products at lower prices.

In reloading you get what you pay for when you are buying hardware, no two ways about it. There are reasons that some products cost a lot more than others.

Oldphart · July 7, 2004, 09:09 PM

I've loaded thousands of rounds with Lee equipment and had no problems I couldn't blame on 'operator error'. I have two of the Perfect Powder Measures, one for handguns and the other for rifles and get good results all the time. Their "Safety" powder scale is accurate enough but a total clunk to work with. I bought an RCBS 5-0-5 scale at a gunshow for $25 and have used it exclusively since. I use a turret press, so I set the dies in the turret with lock-rings turned down tight and never touch them again. I don't care for the rubber "O" rings either, so I throw them away and turn the lock-ring upside down.

Unlike with RCBS and Dillon, If you do break something you'll have to pay for it, but those who buy the higher priced stuff pay for their replacement parts up front, in the original purchase price, rather than when they need the parts. The only reloading stuff I've ever broken were some decapping pins in an RCBS die, and the main operating handle of my press. I tripped on some junk I had left on the floor and fell against the press, bending the handle sideways. It wasn't designed or built to take that sort of treatment. I had a new one in less than four days and it only cost $5.00.

Whatever manufacturer you choose, buy used stuff if you can. Lots of guys take up reloading and change their minds later. If you're not one of them you might as well profit from one of them.

GreenDragon · July 7, 2004, 10:18 PM

Great responses. Please keep them coming. I read the thread about awful Customer Service from Lee so I went with RCBS. I plan to send them a picture of my equipment and a picture of my receipts when I'm done.

Since I posted earlier, I came up with an RCBS powder measure for $25 and I'll just build a stand out of wooden dowels..

My scale is RCBS, tumbler a Lyman, trimmer a Forster, so far decent stuff.

All I need now is dies and I just want to know if Lee dies are inferior or just inexpensive. If other dies will make better ammunition then I'll just spend the money. On the other hand, if spending more on dies is like spending more for a butter knife or 93 octane gas (depending on application), I'll just buy the cheap dies.

thanks again

rwilson452 · July 7, 2004, 10:45 PM

I use lee dies. I load 22-250 with lee dies. I get better result with the full length die than the neck sizing collet die. I have not touched the seating die adjustment in over 50 rounds and it still checks the same. I verify COAL with a sinclair bullet comparator. i get sub .25 MOA groups with my Rem. 700VLS. I hunt chucks with Sierra #1455. Best group was a .18 with sierra #1390. you may get different results with your rifle. two powders that work for me are H380 and IMR 4895. My 30-06 prefers RE15. with 150 gr bullets. One thing us reloaders learn is what works in one rifle doesn't necessarily work in the next one off the assembly line.

JNewell · July 8, 2004, 04:33 PM

I have a bunch of Lee dies, the Lee Auto-Disk measure, and a Lee press. I have a good sized mix of other gear, including Lyman, RCBS, Hornady/Pacific and others.

I have never had a problem with either Lee carbide pistol dies or the neck-sizing collet dies. They've given good service and good results, as good or better than Lyman or RCBS, and they were somewhat less expensive.

I've never used the Perfect measure. I've read many comments both ways. I have read a lot of negative comments about the RCBS measure. I've been using a Lyman 55 measure off and on since around 1972 and would not hesitate to recommend it. I also like the Lee Auto-Disk, but it can be a little choosy about powder types and a little less flexible for varying amounts because although there are a lot of different cavities in the disks, you can't easily do something in between.

So the short version is, no, I won't talk you out of looking at Lee.

Erich · July 8, 2004, 04:48 PM

I've bought a lot of Lee stuff over the years (since '86, I think), and never had any problems with any of it. Wish I could say that about all the guns I've bought over these same years.

I've bought directly from Lee and experienced good customer service. Regarding that unfortunate incident: I felt Mr. Lee's apology and explanation were heartfelt, personally. As someone who's screwed up a time or two myself, I feel for the man . . . and I respect him for sitting down and thinking about his behavior and then admitting he was wrong in public like that. That's the sort of thing I want to encourage, and try to emulate.

rwilson452 · July 8, 2004, 10:17 PM

I had that in between problem with the Lee autodisk. I bought the Adjustable Charge Bar Part # 90792. then I could throw a charge that was just right.

Nanaimo Barr · July 9, 2004, 05:14 PM

most of my pistol dies are Lee, never a problem with one. only ones I ever had problems with were Hornaday.

can't speak to there presses.

Gewehr98 · July 12, 2004, 10:58 PM

I have one Lee press, and a Lee Factory Crimp Die for almost every one of my centerfire rifle chamberings. Out of the 25 different calibers I reload for, about half of them use Lee dies. So no gripes here.

mack69 · July 14, 2004, 09:52 AM

I started earlier this year with the Lee Deluxe pistol kit which includes the 4 hole turret press, beam scale, auto disk powder thrower etc. I use the Lee Auto prime tool to prime too. I load for .38 spl/.357 mag and just ordered .45ACP. Have all Lee carbide pistol dies and factory crimp dies, no issues no problems. The price was right for entry level as I did not want to spend a ton o bucks if I did not enjoy it. However.....that is not the case and though not as heavy duty as some of the other preferred brands the Lee equipment suits my needs just fine and will no doubt last me longer than I will use it....Prior to purchasing/using any reloading kits, the best thing you can do is read, read, read. Get any number of reloading manuals or guides and read em front to rear a couple of times, hang out here and at other forums that discuss reloading and never be afraid to ask questions..No such thing as a dumb reloading question....good luck be safe......mack

sleeping dog · July 16, 2004, 01:18 PM

Necksizing is better? If you only have one rifle in that caliber, and it's a bolt-action, then necksizing makes sense.

Full-length sizing seems better if you're shooting a semi-auto, or if you are reloading and don't know which rifle you're going to shoot it from. Otherwise, you risk feeding failures.

July 7, 2004, 03:22 PM	#3
Quartus Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,823	http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...=Lee+precision __________________ . Better to know what you don't know than to think you know what you don't know.

July 7, 2004, 04:01 PM	#4
eka Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2004 Posts: 235	Lee dies I have only one experience with Lee dies. I used a three die set for .357 Sig. I was frustrated with the seating die which consistently seated the bullet to different depths. I spoke with another fellow who claimed to have the same problem with his Lee die. The rest of my dies are RCBS and Redding, which I have been very happy with. I personally wouldn't buy another Lee die set, but my experience with Lee may or may not be typical of their product in general. Hope that helps and good luck.

July 7, 2004, 07:56 PM	#8
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,769	Buy used RCBS or Hornady I bought the lee anniversary set with challenger O frame press, auto prime, perfect powder measure etc to start reloading but the press began creeking after several thousand rounds and the powder measure was flimsy and Ball powder leaked the most. Stick type would bind. If you mainly load rifle and big bore pistol I would suggest the RCBS master reloading kit for about $250 new, less used. It has all you need less dies to get started. I bought a used RCBS set to replace the lee stuff and it's still going strong on its second owner, 20+ years after its production. RCBS is higher priced because they have to make money the first time. I have a used hornady C type press that I was given used and it is cast iron and well made too. Lee dies are cheaper but they will not stay adjusted with their "O" ring easy adjustment. They will lose settings each time they are removed from the press. RCBS and hornady lock rings can be set and left alone once adjusted for a particular load. I don't like the hornady sliding seater die but it works well enough. If you want to reload volume quantities of straight walled pistol ammo, you will want a progressive press of some type. I would suggest hornady or dillon. You can use RCBS or any other standard threaded die with other brand equiptment. RCBS stuff is guaranteed for life. If they make it, they back it up... for free.... forever. I have been relatively happy with rcbs and was very unhappy with lee. But then I only paid $80 for the lee kit. I got what I paid for. rc

July 7, 2004, 09:09 PM	#10
Oldphart Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Posts: 375	buying Lee I've loaded thousands of rounds with Lee equipment and had no problems I couldn't blame on 'operator error'. I have two of the Perfect Powder Measures, one for handguns and the other for rifles and get good results all the time. Their "Safety" powder scale is accurate enough but a total clunk to work with. I bought an RCBS 5-0-5 scale at a gunshow for $25 and have used it exclusively since. I use a turret press, so I set the dies in the turret with lock-rings turned down tight and never touch them again. I don't care for the rubber "O" rings either, so I throw them away and turn the lock-ring upside down. Unlike with RCBS and Dillon, If you do break something you'll have to pay for it, but those who buy the higher priced stuff pay for their replacement parts up front, in the original purchase price, rather than when they need the parts. The only reloading stuff I've ever broken were some decapping pins in an RCBS die, and the main operating handle of my press. I tripped on some junk I had left on the floor and fell against the press, bending the handle sideways. It wasn't designed or built to take that sort of treatment. I had a new one in less than four days and it only cost $5.00. Whatever manufacturer you choose, buy used stuff if you can. Lots of guys take up reloading and change their minds later. If you're not one of them you might as well profit from one of them.

July 7, 2004, 10:45 PM	#12
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	Lee dies I use lee dies. I load 22-250 with lee dies. I get better result with the full length die than the neck sizing collet die. I have not touched the seating die adjustment in over 50 rounds and it still checks the same. I verify COAL with a sinclair bullet comparator. i get sub .25 MOA groups with my Rem. 700VLS. I hunt chucks with Sierra #1455. Best group was a .18 with sierra #1390. you may get different results with your rifle. two powders that work for me are H380 and IMR 4895. My 30-06 prefers RE15. with 150 gr bullets. One thing us reloaders learn is what works in one rifle doesn't necessarily work in the next one off the assembly line.

July 7, 2004, 02:59 PM	#1
GreenDragon Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: lititz, pa Posts: 74	Talk me out of buying Lee I'm totally new to reloading, got my press, scale, etc in the mail today. Current issues are: 1. I need dies (.22-250, 45-70, and 44 mag...maybe .270 later on). From what I understand neck sizing is the way to go but I want to have a FL die in my possession to be used once in a while (right?) Lee sells a handy 3-die set for about $20-25 new that would fit the bill. FL 2 die sets from other manufacturers are going for $25-35 on ebay and I'd still need to blow another 15 or so for a neck sizer die. Is there anything wrong with Lee dies? 2. I need a powder measure. I plan on measuring every charge for the .22-250 so I could probably get away with a plastic spoon, but, dammit, I don't want to be that lame. For the $20 the Lee measure w/ stand is far cheaper than anything else. I still like the looks of the RCBS if I can find a used one and make a mount for it. Any suggestions are welcome. If I can get a 1/4" better group by buying a better set of dies then I'll do it but I don't want to just throw money away. thanks

July 7, 2004, 03:10 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,544	Lee dies are ok, I have several. I found the Lee Perfection powder measure a total flop. Inaccurate and powder hanging up in all the nooks and crannies. NOT static, it would still hang up powder after coating everything with graphite mold release.

July 7, 2004, 04:03 PM	#5
GLK Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2000 Location: Brandon FL USA Posts: 527	I personally have no experience with Lee products. I have found that there tends to be two types of people in the Lee user group. Ones that have used Lee everything with no problems and those that hate Lee products. Not sure what if anything that means, just something to think about.

July 7, 2004, 06:55 PM	#6
Ben Swenson Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2000 Posts: 1,210	Nothing wrong with Lee pistol dies. Never used their rifle dies. Their powder measure works well enough with Hodgdon H380 (and I suspect other ball powders). When it comes to presses, I bought three Lee single stage presses as I was starting out and gave all of them away. I prefer the RCBS Rockchucker for rifle and Dillon 550 for pistol.

July 7, 2004, 09:05 PM	#9
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	I have three Lee presses, 2 powder measures, 10+ die sets, 5 bullet molds, 2 sizer kits, auto-prime and holder kit, and umpteen other Lee products. I use them regularly, along with my other equipment from RCBS, Redding, Lyman, Hornady, Pacific, and others. Are the Lee products the equal of others, say the Challenger press compared to the Reloader 5 from RCBS or the Perfect powder measure against the Lyman 55 for example? No, HECK NO. Not even close. Lee is so far outclassed it isn't even funny. Are Lee products bad? No, HECK NO!!!!! Lee products represent a good value for the dollar . They work, often work well, and represent a fair price for the product delivered. You get exactly what you pay for, fair enough right? I think so. Lee presents a workable product set to the market that lets EVERYONE get started due to drastically lower than normal prices, produce good ammunition, and learn reloading. Lee makes products that let people try reloading without sinking a fortune in it also, and there is a lot to be said for that. Lee is a valuable asset to the market for all of us also, they keep the other reloading companies prices down by offering their products at lower prices. In reloading you get what you pay for when you are buying hardware, no two ways about it. There are reasons that some products cost a lot more than others.

July 7, 2004, 10:18 PM	#11
GreenDragon Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: lititz, pa Posts: 74	Great responses. Please keep them coming. I read the thread about awful Customer Service from Lee so I went with RCBS. I plan to send them a picture of my equipment and a picture of my receipts when I'm done. Since I posted earlier, I came up with an RCBS powder measure for $25 and I'll just build a stand out of wooden dowels.. My scale is RCBS, tumbler a Lyman, trimmer a Forster, so far decent stuff. All I need now is dies and I just want to know if Lee dies are inferior or just inexpensive. If other dies will make better ammunition then I'll just spend the money. On the other hand, if spending more on dies is like spending more for a butter knife or 93 octane gas (depending on application), I'll just buy the cheap dies. thanks again

July 8, 2004, 04:33 PM	#13
JNewell Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2000 Posts: 1,092	I have a bunch of Lee dies, the Lee Auto-Disk measure, and a Lee press. I have a good sized mix of other gear, including Lyman, RCBS, Hornady/Pacific and others. I have never had a problem with either Lee carbide pistol dies or the neck-sizing collet dies. They've given good service and good results, as good or better than Lyman or RCBS, and they were somewhat less expensive. I've never used the Perfect measure. I've read many comments both ways. I have read a lot of negative comments about the RCBS measure. I've been using a Lyman 55 measure off and on since around 1972 and would not hesitate to recommend it. I also like the Lee Auto-Disk, but it can be a little choosy about powder types and a little less flexible for varying amounts because although there are a lot of different cavities in the disks, you can't easily do something in between. So the short version is, no, I won't talk you out of looking at Lee.

July 8, 2004, 04:48 PM	#14
Erich Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA Posts: 2,543	I've bought a lot of Lee stuff over the years (since '86, I think), and never had any problems with any of it. Wish I could say that about all the guns I've bought over these same years. I've bought directly from Lee and experienced good customer service. Regarding that unfortunate incident: I felt Mr. Lee's apology and explanation were heartfelt, personally. As someone who's screwed up a time or two myself, I feel for the man . . . and I respect him for sitting down and thinking about his behavior and then admitting he was wrong in public like that. That's the sort of thing I want to encourage, and try to emulate.

July 8, 2004, 10:17 PM	#15
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	Lee Autodisk I had that in between problem with the Lee autodisk. I bought the Adjustable Charge Bar Part # 90792. then I could throw a charge that was just right.

July 9, 2004, 05:14 PM	#16
Nanaimo Barr Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Location: North Idaho Posts: 1,024	most of my pistol dies are Lee, never a problem with one. only ones I ever had problems with were Hornaday. can't speak to there presses. __________________ "Question that Regulation, you might be suprised to find out it's Illegal"

July 12, 2004, 10:58 PM	#17
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	No problems here. I have one Lee press, and a Lee Factory Crimp Die for almost every one of my centerfire rifle chamberings. Out of the 25 different calibers I reload for, about half of them use Lee dies. So no gripes here. __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

July 14, 2004, 09:52 AM	#18
mack69 Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: IL Posts: 37	Re: I started earlier this year with the Lee Deluxe pistol kit which includes the 4 hole turret press, beam scale, auto disk powder thrower etc. I use the Lee Auto prime tool to prime too. I load for .38 spl/.357 mag and just ordered .45ACP. Have all Lee carbide pistol dies and factory crimp dies, no issues no problems. The price was right for entry level as I did not want to spend a ton o bucks if I did not enjoy it. However.....that is not the case and though not as heavy duty as some of the other preferred brands the Lee equipment suits my needs just fine and will no doubt last me longer than I will use it....Prior to purchasing/using any reloading kits, the best thing you can do is read, read, read. Get any number of reloading manuals or guides and read em front to rear a couple of times, hang out here and at other forums that discuss reloading and never be afraid to ask questions..No such thing as a dumb reloading question....good luck be safe......mack __________________ "The mind and the sword are one. If the mind is right, the sword is right." www.illinoiscarry.com

July 16, 2004, 01:18 PM	#19
sleeping dog Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2000 Location: MI Posts: 536	Necksizing is better? If you only have one rifle in that caliber, and it's a bolt-action, then necksizing makes sense. Full-length sizing seems better if you're shooting a semi-auto, or if you are reloading and don't know which rifle you're going to shoot it from. Otherwise, you risk feeding failures.