Home Defence - Page 3

Al Thompson · June 8, 2009, 11:02 PM

I'm impressed. I've only seen a few shotgun IDPA style matches, but I've witnessed several folks miss the target. Now the target was a bowling pin, but heck, we all know the bad guy will do exactly as we've told him, so he'll be standing tall and squared up. :barf:

No need to actually think things through..

Matches are not combat, but it gives you a better experience base to exercise your decision making.

simonkenton · June 11, 2009, 02:04 PM

You are right, roadrocket, at 20 feet no man could survive a torso hit with that birdshot.

Willie Lowman · June 11, 2009, 02:15 PM

Yeah! Especially if you are looking to defend your home from this villain...

Micahweeks · June 11, 2009, 03:37 PM

I have a question. I enjoy shooting rifled slugs in my shotguns. Are they not suitable for defense? I figure if I can drop deer with them at 70-100 yards they have to be able to stop people! Lol. I have training in handgun and rifle defense but not shotgun, so I just don't much about the slug as a viable home defense option.

hogdogs · June 11, 2009, 04:05 PM

Certainly. At HD distance, the slug would likely hit the same spot 00 would. My reason for the 00 is the same most that advocate birdshot are using.
Wall penetration.
Where 00 buck would have an increased pattern after a pass thru on a torso missing all bone (low gut shot), the slug is still one heavy ball. The individual pellets will have alot of energy soaked off per ball while in the torso but a slug will retain quite a bit. So after exiting the torso, the slug could still pose a ton of risk after passing thru 2 drywall sheets. The 00 will have their risk highly mitigated after the torso AND drywall. If I should miss the BG completely, a slug would sail right thru the drywall with a lot of retained energy. 00 would go in as one small hole and immediately begin a rapid pattern expansion and rapid energy loss after passing the second sheet of drywall.
Hope this makes sense.
Brent

Death from Afar · June 11, 2009, 10:04 PM

Gunsite has it right- within about 5 yards any shotgun load is a prefragmented solid slug- after that the pattern opens. There is nothing wrong with bird shot at close range- it is only beyond that ( the B zone) that buck becomes markedly superior.

Brigadier · June 11, 2009, 10:56 PM

Except that birdshot fragments too quickly and the pellets are too small to penetrate deep enough to reach vital organs or the CNS.

Micahweeks · June 11, 2009, 11:47 PM

So if my wife and I live by ourselves in a floor plan that dictates that I will always be shooting away from our bedroom (our bedroom is the farthest to the rear of the house) with the nearest neighbor being about 800 yards away, I'm pretty safe shooting 12 gauge slug as long as I don't mind patching up some holes in the wall and replacing some furniture?

.45 COLT · June 11, 2009, 11:49 PM

About a week ago I was testing some .357 bullets for bullet integrity. To do this I use dry newspaper - it's really rough on bullets.

Last shot was a .357 Magnum, UMC factory load, 125 Grain JSP @ 1,450 FPS. It penetrated 7" (and did not expand). Then I took an Estate 12 Gauge 3 1/4 - 1 1/8 - 6 load and shot from 15 feet. It blew a large hole 3 1/2" deep in the same batt. I know, nice to know if you're ever attacked by some demented newspaper, but the point is, that's a pretty good hole compared to a .357. I would speculate that a 1 1/2 ounce load of #4s or #2s would produce a considerably deeper/larger hole. I was out of newspaper or I would have tried both the larger sizes (handloaded).

DC

SteelJM1 · June 12, 2009, 12:06 AM

I just picked up some 00 buck for the 1300 HD gun (formerly turkey gun). It's got a modified choke on it.. that'd be fine to shoot the buck through, right? I wanted to go to the range tomorrow and see how it patterns at 5-10-15 yards.

Kmar40 · June 12, 2009, 12:16 AM

It's fine, assuming we're talking about lead or plated buckshot.

SteelJM1 · June 12, 2009, 12:31 AM

What if it's titanium super hollowpoint buckshot?

June 8, 2009, 11:02 PM	#51
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	I'm impressed. I've only seen a few shotgun IDPA style matches, but I've witnessed several folks miss the target. Now the target was a bowling pin, but heck, we all know the bad guy will do exactly as we've told him, so he'll be standing tall and squared up. :barf: No need to actually think things through.. Matches are not combat, but it gives you a better experience base to exercise your decision making. __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

June 11, 2009, 02:15 PM	#53
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	Yeah! Especially if you are looking to defend your home from this villain... __________________ "9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens

June 11, 2009, 10:04 PM	#56
Death from Afar Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2004 Location: Living the dream in Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND Posts: 1,635	Gunsite has it right- within about 5 yards any shotgun load is a prefragmented solid slug- after that the pattern opens. There is nothing wrong with bird shot at close range- it is only beyond that ( the B zone) that buck becomes markedly superior. __________________ "Beware of the Man with one gun...he probably isnt into guns enough to be safe with it".

June 11, 2009, 02:04 PM	#52
simonkenton Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 891	You are right, roadrocket, at 20 feet no man could survive a torso hit with that birdshot.

June 11, 2009, 03:37 PM	#54
Micahweeks Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2009 Location: North Mississippi Posts: 854	I have a question. I enjoy shooting rifled slugs in my shotguns. Are they not suitable for defense? I figure if I can drop deer with them at 70-100 yards they have to be able to stop people! Lol. I have training in handgun and rifle defense but not shotgun, so I just don't much about the slug as a viable home defense option.

June 11, 2009, 04:05 PM	#55
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Certainly. At HD distance, the slug would likely hit the same spot 00 would. My reason for the 00 is the same most that advocate birdshot are using. Wall penetration. Where 00 buck would have an increased pattern after a pass thru on a torso missing all bone (low gut shot), the slug is still one heavy ball. The individual pellets will have alot of energy soaked off per ball while in the torso but a slug will retain quite a bit. So after exiting the torso, the slug could still pose a ton of risk after passing thru 2 drywall sheets. The 00 will have their risk highly mitigated after the torso AND drywall. If I should miss the BG completely, a slug would sail right thru the drywall with a lot of retained energy. 00 would go in as one small hole and immediately begin a rapid pattern expansion and rapid energy loss after passing the second sheet of drywall. Hope this makes sense. Brent

June 11, 2009, 10:56 PM	#57
Brigadier Member Join Date: June 3, 2009 Posts: 32	Except that birdshot fragments too quickly and the pellets are too small to penetrate deep enough to reach vital organs or the CNS.

June 11, 2009, 11:47 PM	#58
Micahweeks Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2009 Location: North Mississippi Posts: 854	So if my wife and I live by ourselves in a floor plan that dictates that I will always be shooting away from our bedroom (our bedroom is the farthest to the rear of the house) with the nearest neighbor being about 800 yards away, I'm pretty safe shooting 12 gauge slug as long as I don't mind patching up some holes in the wall and replacing some furniture?

June 11, 2009, 11:49 PM	#59
.45 COLT Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 308	About a week ago I was testing some .357 bullets for bullet integrity. To do this I use dry newspaper - it's really rough on bullets. Last shot was a .357 Magnum, UMC factory load, 125 Grain JSP @ 1,450 FPS. It penetrated 7" (and did not expand). Then I took an Estate 12 Gauge 3 1/4 - 1 1/8 - 6 load and shot from 15 feet. It blew a large hole 3 1/2" deep in the same batt. I know, nice to know if you're ever attacked by some demented newspaper, but the point is, that's a pretty good hole compared to a .357. I would speculate that a 1 1/2 ounce load of #4s or #2s would produce a considerably deeper/larger hole. I was out of newspaper or I would have tried both the larger sizes (handloaded). DC

June 12, 2009, 12:06 AM	#60
SteelJM1 Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 496	I just picked up some 00 buck for the 1300 HD gun (formerly turkey gun). It's got a modified choke on it.. that'd be fine to shoot the buck through, right? I wanted to go to the range tomorrow and see how it patterns at 5-10-15 yards.

June 12, 2009, 12:16 AM	#61
Kmar40 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 668	It's fine, assuming we're talking about lead or plated buckshot.

June 12, 2009, 12:31 AM	#62
SteelJM1 Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 496	What if it's titanium super hollowpoint buckshot?