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Old January 23, 2021, 07:51 AM   #1
stagpanther
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CVA new muzzleloader rifle

I have their .45 Paramount--it is amazing in performance and accuracy for a muzzleloader IMO. Looks like they are building on that success with a new 40 cal version that pushes the same concept even further.
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Old January 24, 2021, 01:25 PM   #2
Erno86
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Is that the muzzleloader that shoots smokeless powder?

A shooter was shooting one today at the range...with a 45/70 bullet. He said it had recoil like his 300 Win. Mag.

He just had it customized from a gunsmith named Hankin, who has a shop in Kentucky.
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Old January 24, 2021, 01:36 PM   #3
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I don't think so--but I haven't seen any specs on that yes or no. 2800 fps with a very efficient 40 cal I'm sure would be doable even with with black powder substitute--I'm getting 2400 fps with their 45 cal paramount using blackhorn 209. The 45 cal aerotip is a break-through design IMHO, my guess is they probably looked at that and said why not expand on that success.

There used to be a smokeless powder savage out there which had it's fans--but it had some notable kabooms--including one on one it's biggest advocates injuring him. So far I'm not aware of a smokeless powder muzzleloader that really is a proven safe design.
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Old January 24, 2021, 01:49 PM   #4
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I believe that he said he had the gunsmith - Hankin had the screw in primer unit replaced with a different one. I forgot what type of IMR smokeless powder he was using.

The shooter said it is a 300 yard capable muzzleloader rifle.
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Old January 24, 2021, 02:05 PM   #5
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Here's Hankins Custom Rifles website:

https://www.hankinscustomrifles.com
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Old January 24, 2021, 04:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
I believe that he said he had the gunsmith - Hankin had the screw in primer unit replaced with a different one. I forgot what type of IMR smokeless powder he was using.

The shooter said it is a 300 yard capable muzzleloader rifle.
I have heard of a few custom smokeless muzzleloaders having been made, I strongly suspect your load/charge weights are very limited--in other words I'd be the kind of person to accidentally not stick to exact tolerances and inadvertently blow myself up. But I don't know, the smokeless muzzleloader has been a grail for a long time, but with my limited understanding of smokeless chracteristics my guess is you have to be VERY careful with what you are doing when using in a muzzleloader.

My 45 paramount using blackhorn 209 and aerotip bullets comes pretty close to the advertised performance parameters of the custom smokeless muzzleloader at a third of the price. I noticed from the advertising that CVA even seems to be coming out with the new 40 in a lower-cost Acura platform as compared to my paramount.
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Last edited by stagpanther; January 24, 2021 at 09:09 PM.
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Old January 25, 2021, 03:29 PM   #7
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CVA released a bit more information on the new gun--looks like it's the same as the paramount but with a more real-world hunting stock--I suspect that will take off in popularity.
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Old January 27, 2021, 09:11 AM   #8
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Another ML that's not legal where I like to hunt! I realize that CVA is innovating within the rules of a lot of states, but at those states at this point might as well adopt the rules some states have allowing break action single shots with exposed hammers shooting bottleneck cartridges .35 caliber or greater. I'm not a traditionalist I've used sidelocks and patched round ball, but I prefer the ease and reliability of an inline muzzleloader. I'm just really saying these are no longer primitive firearms.
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Old January 28, 2021, 08:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
I'm just really saying these are no longer primitive firearms.
I have traditional breech plug ML as well as the new paramount in 45 cal--that is still a phenomenal shooter and well worth getting if .40 isn't legal. I find there really isn't all that much time-saving advantage to the bolt/primer cup thing compared to a "regular" breech plug arrangement, but the difference in performance is striking. Why not ensure better results?

The primitive argument I heard for years in the archery world from the "traditional" bow guys (who usually had space-age compound bows looking like something NASA designed for the space station) when they fought against crossbows being allowed during archery season. I have and use both, but the crossbow's only marginal advantage IMO is that it can lock the bolt drawn which I think is insignificant unless you're disabled.
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Old February 1, 2021, 05:58 PM   #10
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If I didn't already have a .45 Paramount--I'd be all over this in a heartbeat. More info.
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Old February 2, 2021, 10:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stagpanther
The primitive argument I heard for years in the archery world from the "traditional" bow guys
Use what's allowed, by all means. I will not argue that with anyone. It just isn't legal where I hunt, I need a .50 cal minimum for Elk and moose, .45 cal for deer, bear, and pronghorn. I also have to use full bore bullets or patched round ball. I imagime the .40 cal will be legal eventually but only with full bore bullets.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough, CVA along with other companies are making muzzle loaders that are far from primitive. The only thing primitive about them is how they load. I'm far from a traditionalist and will use any allowable advantage I can during muzzleloader seasons.
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Old February 19, 2021, 06:17 PM   #12
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CVA Optima is a modern 50 caliber rifle that is quite remarkable with accuracy at 150 yards. I always hunt with Harvester sabot cup and 300 grain XTP bullets. Powder charge is 110 grains of 777. If I can't get closer than 150 yards, I pass on the shot.

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Old February 19, 2021, 07:18 PM   #13
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If you ever get a chance to try one, don't miss the opportunity, CVA really did move the ball forward to a new level with the paramount--it's like doubling your range and accuracy at the same time. I noticed hornady just came out with a similar bullet to the aerotip elr
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Old February 19, 2021, 10:24 PM   #14
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Taylorce1
In Colorado. 40 muzzle loader is legal for deer, pronghorn and bear. Have to use a conical bullet.
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Old February 20, 2021, 12:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Redneck
Taylorce1
In Colorado. 40 muzzle loader is legal for deer, pronghorn and bear. Have to use a conical bullet.
I guess I'm out of date on the regulations, I should have checked. I just can't see any benifit going to it for hunting when I have to use a .50 Cal for elk. I'm sure I could kill elk with it just as easily with a .40 caliber if it wasn't for the rules.
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Old February 22, 2021, 08:21 AM   #16
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i like useing a old time style flint lock rifle for my muzzle loader hunts, just like people did 200 odd years ago. its more about the hunt and the special needs of the FL rifle to me. but i don,t care what rifle types you use. true i can,t take shots past 100 yards and prefer them to be under 100 yards. i relate more to the D boone and D crockett era.
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Old February 22, 2021, 08:33 AM   #17
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I totally get the traditional thing and don't look down on that in any way--I'm just saying the paramount is really a remarkable step forward that's worth taking a look at. I think it's a serious "bridge" weapon that might get regular cartridge rifle users to consider switching to muzzleloading as their primary hunting weapon (except at the moment they are rather heavy).
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