Federal judge upholds D.C. gun regulations; appeal expected - Page 2

Kleinzeit · April 1, 2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

It was discussed in reference to topics including illegal immigrants, illegal immigration, rights to health care (or not, depending on your status), (access to documenation such as driver's licenses, etc.) and how the state intends to separate one class of claimants from the other.

Thanks, Doc.

I didn't read all the articles, but I read enough to find myself questioning even more the claim you made earlier:

Quote:

Under the new Obama Health Care Reform Act you will now get an "I'm a genuine U.S. Citizen smart-card", which will have all sorts of interesting data about you contained in a chip inside it. It will prove you are worthy of health care. You will carry your U.S. ID document wherever you go, and you will produce it on demand.

The very strong impression I have after reading a few of these articles is that biomentric cards are NOT happening under the new health care legislation.

This is NOT, in any sense, something that "will now" (as you put it) be happening.

All that is happening is that people are talking about it. And it is being talked about by people on both sides of politics. I'm not saying this isn't something to be concerned about, but I think we should maintain some kind of distinction between things that are actually happening and things that are just being talked about. People talk about a lot of stuff and only a fraction of it actually happens; talking about ideas is an essential and necessary part of the democratic process. I just want to be sure we aren't sliding into the scare-mongering and prophet-of-doom rhetoric that has so much of the nation spinning in the grips of wild-eyed rapture.

Doc Intrepid · April 2, 2010, 09:46 AM

K --

Interesting though it would be to respond at greater length, I suspect the Mods may take a dim view of our hijacking this thread any longer - seeing as we have strayed afield from the topic of D.C. gun regulations!

I'll make 3 quick points, and then am perfectly willing to continue our conversation in PMs --

1. National ID is not a current reality at this moment, true; however, neither is most of the Health Care Reform Act - many critical elements do not take effect until 2014.

2. You may expect significant changes between 2010 and 2014. The Health Care Reform Act may be thought of as more of a framework than a finished product. First, it was sufficiently erroneous that a second bill needed to be passed one week after the first to correct errors. Second, huge swaths of the bill describe outcomes with no clear path as to how they will be achieved. (The House Minority Whip, moreover, made the point that numerous legislators had not yet read the entire bill they were voting on.) Many details remain to be worked out through future legislation.

3. Part of that future legislation is Immigration Reform. Amnesty is to Immigration Reform as Abortion was to Health Care Reform: an issue that must be addressed in order for the bill to pass. Adding millions of souls who are not currently in the system to Health Care Reform will alter it's parameters. Thus Health Care Reform, Immigration Reform, and Amnesty form a concatenation of concepts; each of which impacts and is impacted by the others. Their future resolutions are inextricably linked. Part of that tripartite resolution, as posed by the Democrats, involves the use of a national credential. Without a resolution Immigration Reform is unlikely, and as currently envisioned, by Democrats, that resolution will involve some form of federal ID. I leave it to your own powers of prediction to guess which of these elements the Obama Administration is more willing to bend on.

We live in tumultuous times. But I'd hate to be accused of prophet-of-doom rhetoric!

PM me if you'd like.

(Next time, K, I'll use smilies.)

Doc

publius42 · April 8, 2010, 07:41 AM

So on the NRA website announcement regarding this DC district decision, it said something about appealing the decision or seeking a legislative remedy.

Oh really? I can't see expecting this Congress to do anything to disturb this decision, but it does recall to mind the NRA trying to avoid the Parker/Heller case by seeking to moot it in Congress. Once again I hope they don't "help" in that particular way.

April 2, 2010, 09:46 AM	#27
Doc Intrepid Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2009 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,037	K -- Interesting though it would be to respond at greater length, I suspect the Mods may take a dim view of our hijacking this thread any longer - seeing as we have strayed afield from the topic of D.C. gun regulations! I'll make 3 quick points, and then am perfectly willing to continue our conversation in PMs -- 1. National ID is not a current reality at this moment, true; however, neither is most of the Health Care Reform Act - many critical elements do not take effect until 2014. 2. You may expect significant changes between 2010 and 2014. The Health Care Reform Act may be thought of as more of a framework than a finished product. First, it was sufficiently erroneous that a second bill needed to be passed one week after the first to correct errors. Second, huge swaths of the bill describe outcomes with no clear path as to how they will be achieved. (The House Minority Whip, moreover, made the point that numerous legislators had not yet read the entire bill they were voting on.) Many details remain to be worked out through future legislation. 3. Part of that future legislation is Immigration Reform. Amnesty is to Immigration Reform as Abortion was to Health Care Reform: an issue that must be addressed in order for the bill to pass. Adding millions of souls who are not currently in the system to Health Care Reform will alter it's parameters. Thus Health Care Reform, Immigration Reform, and Amnesty form a concatenation of concepts; each of which impacts and is impacted by the others. Their future resolutions are inextricably linked. Part of that tripartite resolution, as posed by the Democrats, involves the use of a national credential. Without a resolution Immigration Reform is unlikely, and as currently envisioned, by Democrats, that resolution will involve some form of federal ID. I leave it to your own powers of prediction to guess which of these elements the Obama Administration is more willing to bend on. We live in tumultuous times. But I'd hate to be accused of prophet-of-doom rhetoric! PM me if you'd like. (Next time, K, I'll use smilies.) Doc __________________ *Treat everyone you meet with dignity and respect....but have a plan to kill them just in case.*

April 8, 2010, 07:41 AM	#28
publius42 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2002 Posts: 1,936	So on the NRA website announcement regarding this DC district decision, it said something about appealing the decision or seeking a legislative remedy. Oh really? I can't see expecting this Congress to do anything to disturb this decision, but it does recall to mind the NRA trying to avoid the Parker/Heller case by seeking to moot it in Congress. Once again I hope they don't "help" in that particular way.