Traditions Kentucky Pistol

[DennisCA]

I was thinking about getting a black powder but have zero experience.
Is this any good? I didn't want to spend a ton of money (in case I don't like it)
http://muzzle-loaders.com/pistols/tr...cky-pistol.php

[Doc Hoy]

The comments of the first reviewer in the website (IMHO) are true. I don't shoot single shot pistols or rifles any more but when I did I found them to be very accurate with patched round balls. There is a lot of creep in the triggers, nearly all of them. Shooting is fun, and clean up is not bad.

[Doc Hoy]

I just did some looking at the auction sites and found only one interesting deal.

The auction is on gunauction.com. Search "single shot pistol". With four days left on the auction, there are no bids on the pistol and right now it could possibly be won for 55.00 plus shipping.

The deals on gunbroker.com are all (IMHO) too high in price.

You'll need powder, caps, a flask or at least a scoop, patches or patch material so you can cut your own, bore lube (Start with Crisco for now), cleaning stuff (which for right now is a small bottle brush and dish soap.), Probably a nipple wrench and a good condition (preferably hollow ground) screwdriver. Ought to also have some RemOil and soft cloth. I think you will find that the ramrod is drilled and threaded to take a cleaning jag. If it isn't you'll need a cleaning rod for it.

Most of us also take along a container of "Smile remover". It is for use on the way home from the range, so your better half does not know how much fun you are having.

[Old Stony]

What's not to like? Muzzleloaders can be very addictive and you could be starting on one of the most fun shooting hobbies out there. Most enthusiasts end up making some of their own accessories and you can go from very basic equipment to extravagant.
Everyone should own some of them and you are looking at a good starter gun.

[Nathan]

Traditions is a good enough brand. That gun should be a great place to start.

I think you could get an 1858 revolver in that price range which you might like more or less.

Also, just thinking out loud....why is that twist rate 1:20? Seems like even in a pistol, 1:48 or so would match a patched round ball better...Also, a 50, depending on the exact load may recoil a bit more than I'd want. Take this with a grain of salt as my experience is all with an 1858 shooting round ball.

[Captchee]

i have owned several and re-vamed many more for folks . They do not come with a cleaning attachment on the loading rod .
For the most part they are good shooters . Not as good as the Trapper model but that has to do with stock design and the double set triggers
Some do have issues with trigger creep or very heavy trigger pull, that however can be fixed rather simply .

they can also be made nicer if one takes more wood off as they are rather fat and chubby for that type of pistol . the wood is pretty low end
but over all for a cheeper factory made piece they arnt bad

[kwhi43]

Nathan you want a fast twist in a pistol shooting a round ball. All my match
pistols are 1 in 16 twist.

[Pahoo]

Traditions is a good enough brand. That gun should be a great place to start.

This reply is about as objective as one can make. I have HI graded my pistols down to one revolver and still buying these SideLocks. I have also put a few of these kits together.
Go for it !! ...

Also, just thinking out loud....why is that twist rate 1:20? Seems like even in a pistol, 1:48 or so would match a patched round ball better...Also, a 50, depending on the exact load may recoil a bit more than I'd want. Take this with a grain of salt as my experience is all with an 1858 shooting round ball.

Because of the shorter barrels, they increase the twist to get a projectile spinning. Also, when you review the loading data, they lower the main charge. In general, these a lot of fun to shoot and more in keeping with my BuckSkinner spirit. .....

Be Safe !!!

[4V50 Gary]

Finished (completed) gun is GTG. Stay away from their kits. They are the devil to assemble.

[Doc Hoy]

The idea of kits was once a good one in that you could save money on the kits and get the experience of building the firearm.

But now, the price of the kit is almost the same as the price of the assembled firearm.

I noticed on the website for the kentucky Pistol, the kit was only eight dollars less than the assembled pistol.

[OcelotZ3]

I don't have that model but the Traditions Trapper flintlock pistol. I shot it for the first time 2 days ago and it was a real hoot! My first flintlock, and it fired every time. Hopefully it will continue to do so. It was also very accurate, and the dual set triggers were nice to have.

Regarding the kick of a .50 pistol, it actually wasn't that much. I tried it with 20 grains and 30 grains of fffg and it was pleasant to shoot.

Darn thing was so fun I'm going to have to buy a flintlock rifle now (I already have 4 percussion rifles).

BP is definitely fun!

[maillemaker]

I've never owned a single-shot, though I bought a kit version of this same pistol for my father years ago. I don't think he ever shot it, either, it's a wall hanger for him along with the .50 caliber Hawkin rifle kit.

For about the same money you can get a black powder revolver from Cabela's if you catch them on sale. It just depends on what sort of historical "feel" you are after.

Black powder is a lot of fun. It's much dirtier than smokeless powder shooting but isn't that hard to clean up. I like to use Ballistol for cleaning but hot soapy water followed up with oil works also.

Black powder shooting costs about $.30 a shot. If you make yourself a "bullet bucket" (http://www.4thla.com/articles/bullet...let_bucket.htm) you can recover your lead and re-melt and cast it, cutting the cost down to about $.15 a shot.

So it's surprisingly not markedly cheaper than smokeless powder to shoot per shot, but since you'll be shooting a lot less it's cheaper for a day at the range. Shooting 100 rounds of black powder at the range is a day. Shooting 100 rounds of cartridge rounds is 20 minutes.

Shooting black powder is very amenable for people who like to take their time and make every shot count. People who like to go to the range and see how fast they can pull the trigger and spray lead into the backstop might find it boring.

I agree with Doc that the kits don't seem to be much of a bargain these days, if you were considering those.

Steve

[44 Dave]

This thread got me to take mine down off the hook.
It was a kit built to match my Dixie rifle. not fired 'till this summer Then I noticed the 1/2 cock didn't hold well enough. Just finished deepening the notch and working on trigger clearance.
This kit was a gift but the ready built would have been better even if I striped the finish and re did it to match the other gun.
These shoot quite well and couple screws(no pins) the barrel is off for a good cleaning.

[Captchee]

i was with a friend who bought one of the traditions Kentucky pistols from sportsman’s .
What surprised me was that the kit was more then the finished piece . I even questioned the saleman thinking that had to be a mistake . But nope , at that time the finished gun was less then the kit by about 20.00 . Never have figured that one out .
As to the kit . Not sure whats so hard about them its basically a bolt together and sand down to finish type of kit . Some times the parts don’t fit just right . But not a real big deal IMO .
If your wanting to do carving and such , then the wood isn’t very good for that . But if your wanting to shape them somewhat properly , you can . There is more then enough wood for that .
Plus if one decided to , they are fun guns to kit bash and thus come up with your own .
Here is one such traditions Kentucky that I re did for a fella
This started out as a factory finished piece . As you can see there is a lot of wood you can take off . In this case I cut it down to a ½ stock

[44 Dave]

Nice work Captchee!
My kit did not have the nose cap fitted to the barrel and screw holes, that alone is worth the $8 difference.
Is I remember I brazed a little metal on the trigger arm so it would not drop so much and got rid of some of the free play.
The lock on mine is made in Spain and the full cock notch has an adjusting screw.
Wish I had a main spring clamp. instead of needle nosed Vicegrips!

[Pahoo]

The OP is not inquiring about a kit but a completed pistol. As an afterthought, Gary, is cautioning the selection of a kit and rightly so as he has personal and disappointing results with their quality. The OP is just wanting to get started on this "Great-Adventure" and taking on a kit, is a bit premature. Perhaps, later down the road, a kit would be in order. I am actually to a point where I'm no longer interested in doing any more kits. I think that I have had my share of these but ya just never know. .....
There is always the option of the OP, doing some embellishments to his "finished" piece. for now, he needs to get shooting and not sanding.....

Be Safe !!!

[Captchee]

Actually Dave there is an up grade the CVA trigger
Now I say CVA because that’s what we are really talking about here . Yes I know the subject gun is sold by traditions . However they are imported from the same manufacture as CVA . IE Adesa and prior to that Jukar,.
So what was that update . Well its seen on later CVA rifles like the Bobcat rifles . Basicly all it is is a small 1/32 piece of piano wire . A small hole is drilled into the trigger plate . The wire is bent 90 deg , so that it runs along the trigger plate then bends at 45 deg with a 90 deg dog leg that fits into a small hole drilled into the trigger bar .
What this did was hold just enough tension on the trigger so that if you took it out of the stock , the trigger would then be pulled fully back by the spring .
Thus when you put it back into the stock , you have to lightly push the trigger forward so as to fir the lock in place . Once the lock is fit to the mortise , you let of the trigger and it will then spring back so that it is in full contact with the sear of the lock.
The small spring does not have enough force to trip the sear . Just enough to hold it back . Thus taking all free play out of the trigger .
It also does nothing to reduce the pressure needed to fire the lock . Again its only there to hold the trigger against the sear .
Some of the pistols have that small feathering screw that you speak of on the tumbler . But some do not . I have seen them both ways .
Now one of the nice things is that if one chooses to do alittle bashing , the can take the small muslin lock from the Trapper and replace the lock on the Kentucky .
What that gives you is a bridled tumbler with a fly so that you can use double set triggers if you like .
Now that being said , I have ran into a couple cases where the lock plate on the trapper and the Kentucky were just a little different . But in those cases I simply used the trapper tumbler . Re drilled the Kentucky lock plate for the 2 extra screws for the bridle and bobs your uncle

[44 Dave]

Yes get shooting, but there are little "tune ups" for most guns that can improve them from a "shooter" to a pleasure to shoot and hit what you aim at.
Join the people having fun soon as possible.

[Captchee]

i guess my question then Pahoo is what were the issues ?
to be honest , frank and blunt , these are very cheep and not very high quality to begin with be they finished or not .
are the fun to shoot . yep a blast . but quality wise , its frankly just not there . so while we have all said how great these are . lets me then say how bad they can be .
accuracy wise for the most part if one takes the time to work a load , they can be very accurate .
but what are some of the negatives .
Here are the things I have found .
Cracked stock do to poor quality wood .
Poor fitting hardware . Nose caps , thimbles, TG and locks . With older ones the side plates often are poorly fitted
Ram rods that easily break.
Lock springs that can quickly go weak .
Hammer that are soft
Lock inlets that do not allow the lock plate to properly support the drum bolster . While other times the locks can be fitted so tightly to the bolster that you cant get them out without loosening the barrel .
Soft screws , both brass and main lock bolts
Horribly lose triggers that are set to low , have tones of free play and often rattle around like marbles in a tin can .
2 different types of tumblers on the locks . Ones with a feather screw and ones without .
Concerning flintlock versions, frizzens that would not spark or went dead after a handful of shots . Cocks that are soft they lose geometry

Now lets talk barrels . I have seen them with rifling that was just horrid . Muzzle crowns that were not even . Breech plugs with the anti chambers drilled to small to the point they foul and plug up if not properly maintained
All of these can be found on production pieces just as easily as they can on the kits
I could go on and on about the quality , I know these things because I used to sell them for CVA
Those things however do not stop me form saying that they are a reasonable way to get started .
But we should not in any way IMO give the impression that there is nothing wrong with these . Frankly the reality of it is that one of two things most times happen .
a) the person simply doesn’t enjoy them and they become a safe queen or wall ornament
b) the get hooked and quickly find they want something more .

I just sold three used ones about 3 months ago. two cap and one flint . The flint was shot maybe 50 times and is in fact the one I mentioned being bought from sportsmans . The cap lock was that same persons wifes gun , she shot maybe 10 rounds through it . The 3rd was my wifes and it had maybe 100 rounds through it . I got 300.00 for all three and were frankly glad to get that Even though they were IMO 98% pristine in factory finish and functional quality .

Speaking just for me , he would probably be much happier with the trapper
So that’s why in a nut shell I showed what can be done with these . Hopfuly giving a few more options for his money ,just in case he isn’t real happy with the factory finished Kentucky .
Anyway , as always just my 2 cents. by all means get out and get shooting . but try to be as smart about the investment as you can

[Pahoo]

i guess my question then Pahoo is what were the issues ?

I don't really see any issues except that we evolve in this "Great Adventure" proportional to our earning power. I sure as heck didn't start out with Pedersolis or custom M/L's but no longer have any CVA's. ....

Speaking just for me , he would probably be much happier with the trapper

As well as I but then I know he would also be happier with a used, TC Patriot in .36 or Pedersoli. Heck, I would say that even some of the very early CVA or Hawken/mountain pistols were pretty good, as well as a current Lyman. ...

Be Safe !!!

[Captchee]

sorry Pahoo , i guess i wasnt clear . i was asking about the issues with the kit

[Pahoo]

i was asking about the issues with the kit

My misunderstanding as well. Kits can be hit and miss and perhaps 4V50 Gary will elaborate. Some kits can really eat your lunch and you have to determine if they are worth the effort. I have redone kit guns for folks. I can usually tell a kit-gun, just by the picture. I see them in GB, all the time and some are pretty bad. The best advice on any kit, is take your time and be patient with the project and yourself. I always fit first and then finish. ....

Be Safe !!!

[Captchee]

well that wasnt really what i was asking LOL . but ok