How much does case grow from neck sizing only?

tpcollins · March 22, 2011, 09:27 PM

I understand that using full length sizing over time will lengthen the case but if virgin cases are full size once in the beginning, shot from the same rifle, and then neck sized only after that, does the case still lengthen as usual or is it lessened from only neck sizing? Thanks.

Wildalaska · March 22, 2011, 09:38 PM

I usually get 4-5 shots out of my moderate, neck sized loads (always with either Lapua or Norma brass) before I need to trim.

WildyourcircsmayvaryAlaska

**Shane Tuttle** · March 22, 2011, 09:49 PM

It's a loaded question due to astronomical combined variables. Brass brand, load charge, rifle chamber tolerances, cartridge, etc.

For generality's sake, Wildalaska has your answer.

m&p45acp10+1 · March 22, 2011, 09:59 PM

I agree with the there are a ton of vriables.

For .223 Rem I use range pick up brass. (Love the mall ninjas for leaving me hundreds of pieces of once fired Lake City from Black Hills. As well as lots of other head stamped brass They tend to put it back in the sack with the empty boxes, and the recipts from Acadamy still in the bag.

) I trim after full lenth sizing the first time. I have some brass that I am gonna trim now that has had 12 firings. I annel them after every 3 rd firing.

For .221 Rem Fireball I lost count of how many firings I have with full length resizing. I annel those after every 5 th firing. Had a few the necks split on. None have needed trimming yet.

HiBC · March 23, 2011, 02:26 AM

Despite popular opinion,you cannot neck size with a standard full length sizing die.You can partially size,and that is different.
Actually,the difference in the amount the case body is reduced in diameter by partial sizing is insignificant.Do the math.Take the case head dia and subtract the case shoulder dia.Thats the taper of the case body.It takes place over the length of the case.How much length do you back off the die to partially size? .050? .100?Divide the case body length into the length you back off,that will give you a percentage.Multiply that times the total case taper,and you will find how much diametral sizing you are saving.
What you will do at the same time is squeeze the shoulder forward.No longer do you have brass formed to the chamber.You need to bump the shoulder back just a bit.
True neck sizing dies do not reduce case body dia,so they do not squeeze the shoulder forward.

mehavey · March 23, 2011, 08:48 AM

Neck-sizing only (as with a Redding competition die) will minimize OAL case growth.

Partial resizing (with a FL die) will 'slow' OAL case growth.

But eventually (depending on load and cartridge) both require trimming and shoulder setback. Then you start the cycle over again.

89blazin · March 23, 2011, 11:01 AM

I find on average, I get 5 loads out of neck resizing before I actually need to trim. I normally trim prior, just for uniformity of loads.

Clark · March 23, 2011, 11:27 AM

.223 is SAAMI registered at 55kpsi.

Shooting 223 at 66 kpsi, neck sizing with a Lee collet neck die, the change is .0005" per firing and neck sizing.

If the difference between max and trim to length is .0100", the 20 firings are possible between trimmings.

oneoldsap · March 23, 2011, 01:39 PM

I trim cases That I'm going to neck size .010 " shorter than standard trim length . 10 firings between fls and trim is not uncommon . Then it's fl size anneal and trim . When they are worn out the necks will crack and into the trash they go . The smaller the Caliber the less firings you will get !

F. Guffey · March 23, 2011, 02:08 PM

I use the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage, I use the versatile full length sizer die for sizing, I am not saying I do not have a different die for most of the days of the week, I am saying I do not use them, and I use forming dies, if I had but one forming die, it would be the 308 W, by keeping up with two thoughts at one time I can use it to form 8mm57, 7mm57, 257 Roberts 7.7 Japanese etc., etc..

The best of all worlds when sizing if neck sizing with partial body sizing, and, I do not bump, to me it sounds too much like an accident, I put the shoulder where I want it AND I want my firing pin to hit something solid and I do not want my firing pin to seat the primer, I want my firing pin to crush the primer before the bullet, powder, case and primer get pushed to the front of the bus (chamber) because it takes too long for every thing to get 'up' there.

Then there is partially sizing the neck, partially sizing the neck saves time 'if time is a factor' partial neck sizing leaves part of the neck unsized, the unsized portion of the neck centers the case in the chamber and without sizing the case body or 'bumping' the shoulder time is saved, saving time raises pressure a little but improves accuracy.

Again, I have the ugliest rifle ever turned into a sports rifle, very accurate, I have a 303 1905 Ross, very accurate, I have a Weatherby 300 Winchester mag that can not be improved upon by reloads and I have a Winchester Model 70 300 Winchester mag that does not shoot groups it shoots patterns, I sent it back, long story, when I sent it back to Winchester it had the ugliest chamber I have ever seen, I can shoot an ugly gun, I can see no value in a gun that looks good and shoots ugly, anyhow they sent it back to me 2+ year ago, when I am bored I think I will take it to the range.

Firing, stretch? Not always, Sizing, stretch? Not always. Then there is the question does the case stretch or does the brass flow? Then there is the 'dreaded donut' and we all know the donut only appears on the inside of the case at the shoulder/neck juncture, do nuts on the outside of the case at the shoulder/neck juncture are mistakes caused by bad habits.

F. Guffey

March 22, 2011, 09:27 PM	#1
tpcollins Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2009 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 558	How much does case grow from neck sizing only? I understand that using full length sizing over time will lengthen the case but if virgin cases are full size once in the beginning, shot from the same rifle, and then neck sized only after that, does the case still lengthen as usual or is it lessened from only neck sizing? Thanks. __________________ What direction did that last shot at Kennedy come from?

March 22, 2011, 09:49 PM	#3
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,443	It's a loaded question due to astronomical combined variables. Brass brand, load charge, rifle chamber tolerances, cartridge, etc. For generality's sake, Wildalaska has your answer. __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

March 22, 2011, 09:59 PM	#4
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	I agree with the there are a ton of vriables. For .223 Rem I use range pick up brass. (Love the mall ninjas for leaving me hundreds of pieces of once fired Lake City from Black Hills. As well as lots of other head stamped brass They tend to put it back in the sack with the empty boxes, and the recipts from Acadamy still in the bag.) I trim after full lenth sizing the first time. I have some brass that I am gonna trim now that has had 12 firings. I annel them after every 3 rd firing. For .221 Rem Fireball I lost count of how many firings I have with full length resizing. I annel those after every 5 th firing. Had a few the necks split on. None have needed trimming yet. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

March 22, 2011, 09:38 PM	#2
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	I usually get 4-5 shots out of my moderate, neck sized loads (always with either Lapua or Norma brass) before I need to trim. WildyourcircsmayvaryAlaska

March 23, 2011, 02:26 AM	#5
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,289	Despite popular opinion,you cannot neck size with a standard full length sizing die.You can partially size,and that is different. Actually,the difference in the amount the case body is reduced in diameter by partial sizing is insignificant.Do the math.Take the case head dia and subtract the case shoulder dia.Thats the taper of the case body.It takes place over the length of the case.How much length do you back off the die to partially size? .050? .100?Divide the case body length into the length you back off,that will give you a percentage.Multiply that times the total case taper,and you will find how much diametral sizing you are saving. What you will do at the same time is squeeze the shoulder forward.No longer do you have brass formed to the chamber.You need to bump the shoulder back just a bit. True neck sizing dies do not reduce case body dia,so they do not squeeze the shoulder forward.

March 23, 2011, 08:48 AM	#6
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,898	Neck-sizing only (as with a Redding competition die) will minimize OAL case growth. Partial resizing (with a FL die) will 'slow' OAL case growth. But eventually (depending on load and cartridge) both require trimming and shoulder setback. Then you start the cycle over again.

March 23, 2011, 11:01 AM	#7
89blazin Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2009 Posts: 107	I find on average, I get 5 loads out of neck resizing before I actually need to trim. I normally trim prior, just for uniformity of loads.

March 23, 2011, 11:27 AM	#8
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	.223 is SAAMI registered at 55kpsi. Shooting 223 at 66 kpsi, neck sizing with a Lee collet neck die, the change is .0005" per firing and neck sizing. If the difference between max and trim to length is .0100", the 20 firings are possible between trimmings.

March 23, 2011, 01:39 PM	#9
oneoldsap Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2009 Location: I live in the foot of the Green Mountains of Vermont Posts: 1,602	I trim cases That I'm going to neck size .010 " shorter than standard trim length . 10 firings between fls and trim is not uncommon . Then it's fl size anneal and trim . When they are worn out the necks will crack and into the trash they go . The smaller the Caliber the less firings you will get !

March 23, 2011, 02:08 PM	#10
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I use the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage, I use the versatile full length sizer die for sizing, I am not saying I do not have a different die for most of the days of the week, I am saying I do not use them, and I use forming dies, if I had but one forming die, it would be the 308 W, by keeping up with two thoughts at one time I can use it to form 8mm57, 7mm57, 257 Roberts 7.7 Japanese etc., etc.. The best of all worlds when sizing if neck sizing with partial body sizing, and, I do not bump, to me it sounds too much like an accident, I put the shoulder where I want it AND I want my firing pin to hit something solid and I do not want my firing pin to seat the primer, I want my firing pin to crush the primer before the bullet, powder, case and primer get pushed to the front of the bus (chamber) because it takes too long for every thing to get 'up' there. Then there is partially sizing the neck, partially sizing the neck saves time 'if time is a factor' partial neck sizing leaves part of the neck unsized, the unsized portion of the neck centers the case in the chamber and without sizing the case body or 'bumping' the shoulder time is saved, saving time raises pressure a little but improves accuracy. Again, I have the ugliest rifle ever turned into a sports rifle, very accurate, I have a 303 1905 Ross, very accurate, I have a Weatherby 300 Winchester mag that can not be improved upon by reloads and I have a Winchester Model 70 300 Winchester mag that does not shoot groups it shoots patterns, I sent it back, long story, when I sent it back to Winchester it had the ugliest chamber I have ever seen, I can shoot an ugly gun, I can see no value in a gun that looks good and shoots ugly, anyhow they sent it back to me 2+ year ago, when I am bored I think I will take it to the range. Firing, stretch? Not always, Sizing, stretch? Not always. Then there is the question does the case stretch or does the brass flow? Then there is the 'dreaded donut' and we all know the donut only appears on the inside of the case at the shoulder/neck juncture, do nuts on the outside of the case at the shoulder/neck juncture are mistakes caused by bad habits. F. Guffey