The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 15, 2019, 01:30 PM   #1
Wendyj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2015
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 1,314
Reloading The TC Encore Pro Hunter

I picked one up used with a 270 ss barrel. Haven’t shot it yet but only reason I got it was so my husband could buy a 35 whelen and a 338 win mag barrel for it. I might use the 270 for myself or not.
It appears that reloading this rifle from what I’ve read is more to setting headspace than just setting it back a few thousandths as in my bolt rifles. Am I overthinking what I’m reading or is there more to it I need to know.
__________________
God is NOT dead!!!!
Wendyj is offline  
Old December 15, 2019, 03:12 PM   #2
NoSecondBest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 7, 2009
Location: Western New York
Posts: 2,454
Measuring and setting headspace on the TC Encore is very simple. There are a couple of really good videos out on how to do it, and this article by Mike Bellm explains it all pretty well. https://www.bellmtcs.com/bellm/headspace
It's been my experience that it usually doesn't have to be done to begin with, but if you need to adjust it, it's quite simple and inexpensive. You can easily do this yourself.
NoSecondBest is offline  
Old December 15, 2019, 11:11 PM   #3
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 20,867
Its always convenient when a link takes you to a site selling products to fix a problem you may not have....

To be clear, "setting headspace" is not done with ammunition. It is done by the manufacturer when they make the barrel, and fit it to the action. Headspace is the space in the gun the ammo fits in, NOT the relationship between the resized case and the chamber.

Some designs (with removable barrels) may allow an easily done range of adjustment of the action to barrel fit. Some don't.

If you neck size your fired brass and it goes back into the chamber and the action closes without "drag" you're good to go. If it doesn't, full length size your fired cases and it will work.

Don't try to fix a problem until you're sure you HAVE a problem, and you know what the problem is.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old December 16, 2019, 01:27 AM   #4
big al hunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 12, 2011
Location: Washington state
Posts: 1,299
Quote:
Am I overthinking what I’m reading or is there more to it I need to know.
What you are reading about is folks trying to get every last drop of accuracy out of a platform that does not lend itself to precision shooting. They do many things to reduce group size. And some of them have barrels that are slightly out of specification. What you need to do depends on what fit up your gun has, and how accurate you need it to be. You may not need to do anything special.

I have a TC Contender that I have been loading for since the 90's. And 3 barrels for my Encore Pro Hunter. I load them the same as for my bolt rifles. I get close to MOA out of some barrels. And I get over MOA by a lot in others. But they serve the purpose that I need them to. The barrel that shoots the worst shoots between 1 1/2" and 3" at 100 yards, depending upon the load. I use it for hunting in an area with timber and small clear cuts. My longest shot is only going to be 150 yards, so I don't sweat the group size. It's minute of deer.

Unless you plan to shoot in competition, you may not need to do anything fancy. How you load the ammo may not make much of a difference at first. More important is being consistent with how you hold the gun. The fore stock is attached directly to the barrel. Pressure changes against the fore stock change the POI accordingly. After you see how it shoots, then you will know if you need to try anything to tighten it up. Never know til you give it a whirl. And if you like it....your husband might need another action for his barrels
__________________
You can't fix stupid....however ignorance can be cured through education!
big al hunter is offline  
Old December 17, 2019, 10:43 AM   #5
thallub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 2,921
Quote:
It is done by the manufacturer when they make the barrel, and fit it to the action.
Yep, problem comes when one buys an additional barrel for their Encore. That new barrel has not been "fitted" to your action.

For Christmas 2005 i bought a new Encore rifle with a .50 caliber muzzleloader barrel. Also bought five centerfire rifle barrels and scopes. Three of those barrels were not serviceable without fitting. The .30-06 barrel had excessive headspace; so excessive that it left incipient head separation rings in the once fired cases.

Sold three of those barrels at a loss. Only the .35 Whelen and .22 Hornet barrels were retained. Both are accurate.

Bellms provides valuable service in correcting problems that TC should have fixed on day one.
thallub is offline  
Old December 17, 2019, 11:23 AM   #6
NoSecondBest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 7, 2009
Location: Western New York
Posts: 2,454
Quote:
Its always convenient when a link takes you to a site selling products to fix a problem you may not have.
She didn't know and asked the question. Do you have a better answer? I'm not promoting Bellm, but the link does show what it is and how to measure it. As I said in my first response, I haven't had a problem yet...and it's not all that hard to fix if you KNOW what you're trying to fix. Bellm does a decent job of explaining it, and he has some good videos out showing how to do it. I don't fault the guy for offering a service if you have a need/problem. Before you go knocking the gun you need to remember lots of folks just like the simplicity, weight, and variable caliber choices available with this platform. If you have a better suggestion, let's hear it.
NoSecondBest is offline  
Old December 17, 2019, 11:36 AM   #7
ammo.crafter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 25, 2006
Location: The Keystone State
Posts: 1,605
TC

Belm gladly shares knowledge and advice. Give him a call or send an email.
__________________
"The Constitution is not an instrument for government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government, lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."
Patrick Henry, American Patriot
ammo.crafter is offline  
Old December 17, 2019, 06:14 PM   #8
Wendyj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2015
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 1,314
I watched some videos and kind of get the context of using feeler gauges for the gap in the action. I’ve reloaded for 2 #1 Ruger’s and never found this to be an issue. Barrels weren’t interchangeable either though. I’ll see how the 270 goes first and decide on other barrels afterwards. I don’t know that I can handle a rifle that won’t shoot at least moa. I don’t have a lot in it so if unsatisfied I should be able to recoup my losses. EABCO has some decent priced barrels on sale until the 1st of the year. Going to try and get to the range Saturday. Got 2 others to get zeroed in with scope changes.
__________________
God is NOT dead!!!!
Wendyj is offline  
Old December 17, 2019, 07:45 PM   #9
NoSecondBest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 7, 2009
Location: Western New York
Posts: 2,454
If you get some flyers or erratic groups with your gun, try taking the forearm off and shooting it again for groups (it won't hurt a thing to shoot it this way while at the range, the forearm might be causing some of your problems). If it shoots better with the forearm off, that's telling you that there's a fit problem with the forearm. This is somewhat common with these guns. If your expectations are lower, you probably won't notice it. I like my guns to shoot sub 1moa and with one of my Encores (I have more than one) and one barrel I had a problem. I put a hanger kit on one of my forearms and the problem was solved. All three of my barrels shoot sub 1moa for five shots at 100 yards.
NoSecondBest is offline  
Old December 17, 2019, 07:54 PM   #10
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 5,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendyj View Post
I picked one up used with a 270 ss barrel. Haven’t shot it yet but only reason I got it was so my husband could buy a 35 whelen and a 338 win mag barrel for it. I might use the 270 for myself or not.
It appears that reloading this rifle from what I’ve read is more to setting headspace than just setting it back a few thousandths as in my bolt rifles. Am I overthinking what I’m reading or is there more to it I need to know.
If its a factory barrel, I neck size for the Encore and contender. I am no neck size fan, but its the way to go with the TC break actions. Now if you buy an Eabco, MGM, or Bullberry barrel that is a different story.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old December 17, 2019, 07:57 PM   #11
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 5,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by big al hunter View Post
What you are reading about is folks trying to get every last drop of accuracy out of a platform that does not lend itself to precision shooting. They do many things to reduce group size. And some of them have barrels that are slightly out of specification. What you need to do depends on what fit up your gun has, and how accurate you need it to be. You may not need to do anything special.

I have a TC Contender that I have been loading for since the 90's. And 3 barrels for my Encore Pro Hunter. I load them the same as for my bolt rifles. I get close to MOA out of some barrels. And I get over MOA by a lot in others. But they serve the purpose that I need them to. The barrel that shoots the worst shoots between 1 1/2" and 3" at 100 yards, depending upon the load. I use it for hunting in an area with timber and small clear cuts. My longest shot is only going to be 150 yards, so I don't sweat the group size. It's minute of deer.

Unless you plan to shoot in competition, you may not need to do anything fancy. How you load the ammo may not make much of a difference at first. More important is being consistent with how you hold the gun. The fore stock is attached directly to the barrel. Pressure changes against the fore stock change the POI accordingly. After you see how it shoots, then you will know if you need to try anything to tighten it up. Never know til you give it a whirl. And if you like it....your husband might need another action for his barrels
Back in the early days of the contender and to a lesser extent with the encore, we were not trying to squeeze out accuracy, we were just trying to get them to go bang when the trigger was pulled.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old December 18, 2019, 08:46 AM   #12
thallub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 2,921
Quote:
Back in the early days of the contender and to a lesser extent with the encore, we were not trying to squeeze out accuracy, we were just trying to get them to go bang when the trigger was pulled.
^^^^^^Yes!!!

First time i took the Encore to the Ft. Sill private weapons range i sighted in the muzzleloader barrel and was installing a centerfire barrel when another shooter approached: "You will probably have a misfire with that centerfire barrel."

The man was right, the rifle misfired. The hammer spring was weak. A call to Bellms and a new stronger hammer spring was on the way along with an extractor for the muzzleloader barrel that did not require removal in order to remove the breech plug.

That Encore caused me more trouble than all the other new factory rifles i've owned combined. After correcting numerous faults it's now a great muzzleloader.
thallub is offline  
Old December 18, 2019, 10:32 AM   #13
NoSecondBest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 7, 2009
Location: Western New York
Posts: 2,454
I've been shooting Contenders since the early eighties and Encores since the late nineties. Way back when I got my first Contender, it would occasionally fail to fire due to the hammer block not dropping out of the way. This was a case of a new barrel on the frame I had. A trip back to TC took care of this. Getting new barrels would sometimes result in another trip back. I've never seen this happen on an Encore. Accuracy on the Contenders was superb. I shot silhouette for years and fired many, many perfect scores with the three different Contenders I owned. That was both centerfire and rimfire IHMSA matches. Accuracy was never a problem. The Encore has never misfired for me. NEVER. It can have some accuracy improvement sometimes by fitting a barrel hanger on the forearm. Even without the barrel hanger the accuracy is decent. After fitting it's usually superb with the right load. I haven't met very many people who've shot more rounds out of a Contender than I have. I shot IHMSA silhouette for around fifteen years and I shot a LOT of rounds during that time. My gun I won the most matches with was the Contender using both 10" and 14" barrels for different classes. The Encore was an improvement in the reliability and accuracy department as far as I'm concerned. It's not on par with my best bolt guns, but it's absolutely great for an affordable and versatile hunting rifle.
NoSecondBest is offline  
Old December 18, 2019, 06:21 PM   #14
Wendyj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2015
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 1,314
I saw the hanger system and it appeared to be a solution to free floating the forearm. My #1s were bedded so they shoot sub moa. All my bolts are Tikkas and Sako so not getting at least moa would be a big let down. I’d planned on taking the wheeler torque wrench and logging in some different torque specs. What few lever actions I have I can handle2 moa or less out of. I like to hunt but enjoy shooting more and inaccurate rifles are not very interesting. There are thousands of opinions on the web on these and it’s a 50-50 shot as to whose shoots and whose doesn’t. Planned on shooting Saturday but got a leaking roof and will be with roofing company most of the day. Maybe a minor fix and I can hit the range before the day is up.
__________________
God is NOT dead!!!!
Wendyj is offline  
Old December 28, 2019, 12:44 PM   #15
Wendyj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2015
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 1,314
Made it to the range today with some factory ammo. Cor locks and Federal power shock both 130 grain. Got it zeroed in and first groups off of a Caldwell Stinger rest were shooting vertical strings. I remembered someone said to keep shooting bags as close to the action as possible. I pulled out front and rear bag and a lot of difference. Two shots stay sub moa but a 3rd and 4th shot take sub moa away. The barrel is hot by the second shot. So it’s a two shot for sure rifle and not much more needed. Got to get the action to EABCO to lighten the trigger. This thing is breaking a little over five pounds so not helping groups any. All in all it’s ok but I guess truth will be told with a different barrel. I didn’t realize until I ordered an original pin and an adjustable pin that the one in it is an oversized now. Thought it was kind of difficult to get in and out. Pictures show its a 2 shot gun at best.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf zzz.pdf (67.0 KB, 13 views)
__________________
God is NOT dead!!!!

Last edited by Wendyj; December 28, 2019 at 07:53 PM.
Wendyj is offline  
Old December 29, 2019, 03:03 PM   #16
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 17,009
If the first two are consistently in and the third consistently out, then it does sound like heat is affecting its POI. If the first two are from a clean barrel, though, then the third may be due to fouling accumulation and if you shot a fourth and a fifth, they might be with that third round. Have you tried letting it cool five minutes between shots?
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Old December 29, 2019, 04:53 PM   #17
Wendyj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2015
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 1,314
Unclenick. I hadn’t cleaned it until I got home from the range. Barrel had no residue, copper or anything in it when I started shooting. I was trying to get quite a few fouling loads in to help out. I ordered some accubond and Partitions after range trip. I’ll shoot those several minutes apart to duplicate hunting scenario. It was used but appeared someone cleaned the barrel to bare metal.
__________________
God is NOT dead!!!!
Wendyj is offline  
Old December 29, 2019, 06:06 PM   #18
NoSecondBest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 7, 2009
Location: Western New York
Posts: 2,454
Some barrels will bend as they get warm. I'm assuming this is a factory barrel? Also, you may have contact with the barrel and the forearm. Have you checked to see if the forearm and barrel art touching anywhere? Also, my experience with Encores (and other guns without one piece stocks) is that if you put any pressure changes on the cheek piece you can easily change POI.....even if everything else is as it should be. Looking at your pics, some of those groups just aren't all that bad for just trying one load and shooting at 100 yards. Everyone wants sub 1moa, but is just doesn't always happen with a new gun and factory loads. It's been my experience also that the Encore is not the easiest gun to get to less than 1moa. It can be done, but it's usually after a lot of load development and time at the bench learning how to shoot this type of gun. Don't give up, it will get some better if you're willing to put the time and effort into it. If not, pass it along and get a bolt gun.
NoSecondBest is offline  
Old December 30, 2019, 06:25 PM   #19
Wendyj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2015
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 1,314
I’m not going to give up on it. I kind of like the single shot. Sending the action off tomorrow to get the overly heavy trigger down to 2.5 to 3 lbs. Got dies today and interlocks was all lgs had so I picked up a 100 pretty reasonable. I stuck with what I’d normally do for my bolt actions and set the shoulders back 2 thousandths. No problem with lock up or any failure to fire. Range will tell the tale with reloads but I’m not going to fool with it until I can get the trigger and action job. I’ve got plenty of bolt guns and hunting season a good ways off so no big hurry to get it done in a day or two. According to EABCO it will be 10 days from tomorrow before I get the action back. Husband is chomping at the bit for the 35 whelen barrel but wants to wait and see how it shoots.
__________________
God is NOT dead!!!!
Wendyj is offline  
Old December 30, 2019, 07:55 PM   #20
NoSecondBest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 7, 2009
Location: Western New York
Posts: 2,454
You can easily and safely get your Encore triggers down to two pounds or just a tad less. I had Eric at https://www.hausofarms.com/ do mine at 1.75 lbs before it was shipped to me. I had a local gunsmith (very experienced and qualified) set another one at 2.1 lbs on a new frame. Neither are "too light" for this gun and frame. I wouldn't go over 3.0 on your gun. When you get to the range with it the next time, pay particular attention to getting a light but consistent cheek weld on the stock, and sit the gun in the bags so that you're sitting quite a bit more upright. I've found over the years that on guns such as the Encore, High Walls, Sharps, lever guns, etc that you can really change the POI simply by changing cheek pressure on the gun. You'd really benefit from a barrel hanger and forend for your gun. I would strongly recommend checking out Stratton Custom's website and seeing what he has to offer. He's a very nice fellow who will spend some time talking to you about it and his work is top notch. I can tell you for a fact that it can make a significant difference on some guns. Good luck with this. Once you get it where you want it, they're a great hunting gun.
NoSecondBest is offline  
Old January 18, 2020, 05:41 PM   #21
Wendyj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2015
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 1,314
Got back to the range today with my reloads. Just got the action back from EABCO and trigger is a crisp 2.5 lbs. torqued rear forend to 15 inch lbs and front to 10 inch lbs. used some imr4831 and interlocks to start. Managed sub moa with no issues. Place forend on rear of bag. In center and close to front. No change in POI. Had ordered some factory 130 accubonds. Just barely under an inch. Only thing I did to reload was set the shoulders back .002. Ran mid to max powder charges from data. Max chronograph was 3156 with single digit spread. Starting to really like this rifle. Now to order my husbands 35 whelen and Hope impact doesn’t change. I used same torque settings before sending the action off and first cold bore shot was same as before. Anxious for deer season next year if I get to use it.
__________________
God is NOT dead!!!!
Wendyj is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08565 seconds with 9 queries