.204 32 gr VMax: I'm worried.

[bow shot]

Factory ammo sprays 6" groups.
My best hand loads can't breech the 0.5" barrier.

Any one else had problems getting 32 gr VMax bullets to group? I'm having a bad time getting past the .5" barrier. 'Getting a little worried that I may have a problem child (rifle).

Rifle: Savage 12 VLP (original varmint barrel, epoxy bedded)
Powder: 26.8 gr Benchmark
Brass: Hornady (NOT flash-hole uniformed)
Trim: 1.395"
Primer: Fed 205M
OAL: appx 2.33"
Bullet TIR: confirmed under 0.002" case side of the olgive

I started w/OAL at spec., and adjusted the powder charge for best groups. I then varied OAL in .02" increments but saw little change.

Like I said, I'm starting to worry a bit here. Dialing in my other rifle (6.5x55) was a piece of cake. I now have 1000 rounds through the tube on the .204, and I'm getting worried, feeling disappointed.

[mrawesome22]

Disappointed with 1/2 inch groups? Guess you need to build a custom gun. And even a custom gun may not shoot that well LOL.

[uncyboo]

I'm sure you will find folks that have rifles that won't shoot the V-Max as well as the BlitzKing, and vise-versa. Go to http://www.rugerhunting.com/ and you'll get lots of opinions. Just because the V-Max is one of the most popular bullets in this cartridge doesn't mean your rifle is gonna shoot them well, or as well as another bullet.

[Brian Pfleuger]

I started w/OAL at spec., and adjusted the powder charge for best groups. I then varied OAL in .02" increments but saw little change.

I have been advised to work in the other direction. Start with a minimum charge and the bullet touching the rifling. Work back until minimum group is located, seat your rounds at that length and then work for optimal charge.

It makes sense that if you achieve optimal barrel time and then change the seating depth then you will also change the barrel time away from optimal. You are, after all, playing with fractions of a millisecond on barrel exit times.


On the other hand, I personally can't imagine being disappointed with 1/2" groups, assuming you're talking 100 yards.

[bow shot]

perhaps I have the bar too high...

What do you folks think of the 6" spray of the factory ammo? Could it possibly shoot that poorly and not be a rifle issue?

If I can get time this evening to decap, I'll be on the brass. I have a simclair primer pocket uniformer, and a RCBS flash hole de-burr tool. I may try for a tool that actually reams the hole, the rcbs looks like it only does an inside chamfer.

I've not done this with the brass so far, just primer pocket cleaning with a Lee tool.

I also have Nosler brass on hand that I had to fire, so that is available too.

[Brian Pfleuger]

What do you folks think of the 6" spray of the factory ammo? Could it possibly shoot that poorly and not be a rifle issue?

I don't think that you'd ever get it to shoot 1/2" groups if it was a rifle problem.

What brand ammo? My Ruger MkII in 204 will shoot near MOA 3 shot groups and about 2" 10 shot groups at 100 yards, without serious effort on my part and without letting the barrel cool, using Hornady ammo.

[bow shot]

That was Hornady ammo, with 40 gr bullets (VMax). I threw together some minimum charge loads with a box of those (40 gr VMax) seated to spec. and got the same result (6" groups). I just shot the 40s cuz I bought them by mistake, the store wouldn't take them back (Bass Pro), and I needed to 1x fire some new nosler brass.

I haven't gone further with the 40's just because I've invested so much time in the 32's.

The killer for me is that usually 3/5 will touch, and 2/5 will be the outliers.

My 6.5 with a no-name sporter barrel will often do one (big) raggeed hole if I shoot carefully...

[uncyboo]

That was Hornady ammo, with 40 gr bullets (VMax). I threw together some minimum charge loads with a box of those (40 gr VMax) seated to spec. and got the same result (6" groups).

Most of the factory twist are 12", and I think this may be on the cusp for the 40 grainers. It seems some rifles shoot them well, and others not at all. This is when velocity plays such a huge role in stabilization. You'd have to drive it a little harder, and some guns won't allow this, pressure-wise.

[bow shot]

'Local shop has 30 grain Bergers, but no 35s in 20 cal. Anyone go intelligence on them? I may post a new thread for that one...

I'll make a call and see if they have SBKs too..

[bow shot]

Ok, the son is stopping at a shop near him before coming home for a visit this weekend, he'll be bringing some 32 gr SBKs, perhaps 39 gr SBKs, and possibly 40 gr Bergers. Looks like I'm in the desert for 35 gr Bergers

Brass prep tonight.

[bow shot]

I'll be loading 32 and 39 gr SBKs tomorrow. Bergers were not available.

[uncyboo]

I would really like to know how that turns out. Please post results.

[bow shot]

didn't get to the bench today though. Big dissappointment...

[javven]

I'm a bit surprised at a 6" group - I'd definitely want to try another loading if available.

I wouldn't freak out about > .5" groups unless I had a real ton of money stuck in a target or varmint style rifle. However - everyone's expectations are different.

I can agree with the 'try different projectiles' theory. I have a 7mm that will not shoot boat tails worth a flip. Prints sub - moa with flat bases, though. I suspect it's just barrel wear - but really? Barrel wear and still sub-MOA?

Good luck.

[T. O'Heir]

"...6" spray of the factory ammo..." Your rifle just doesn't like it.
"...getting 32 gr VMax bullets to group...can't breech the 0.5" barrier..." At 100, off a bench? Half an inch is a group. Sight in, you're done. If you want better than that, you'll need match grade bullets that don't exist.

[uncyboo]

I know where the OP is coming from. There are an awful lot of .204 owners posting 5 shot groups in the .2's and .3's with the 32 grn. V-Max's and box stock Savages, Remingtons, and Howas. That's what he's shooting for (pun intended). 1/2 inch groups are great, but when 75% of the .204 posts are claiming quarter and under groups as the norm, the accuracy bug bites hard.

[Tex S]

If that rifle will only shoot 1/2" groups, I would consider selling it.....

.....to me.

[highvel]

At a reduced "accuracy deficiant" price, right

[bow shot]

Yeah, I often consider that my expectations are likely too high...

But I'll keep trying. When I exhaust all my resources, I'll rest content at 0.5".

I've learned a lot along the way, that's for sure!

Should be loading up 32 and 39 gr Sierra blitzkings if I can get out of work at a decent time. If the weather is clear, I may get a couple groups off too..

[bow shot]

Rounds loaded with 32 and 39 gr Sierra blitz kings are ready to go. I'll let y'all know how things shoot...

[Ifishsum]

I had the same problem with my .204 (if you can call a .5 inch rifle a problem!) My Savage 12FV really likes the 40 gr Vmax bullets but I couldn't get better than .55 on a consistent basis - and the 32s were closer to .75 - but each gun is different. My consistently best loads are with the Sierra 39gr BKs - they regularly group in the .375-.4 range (5 shot groups @100 yds). I've been able to get those groups with both BL-C(2), W748 and Varget powder.

Can't explain the 6 inch groups, every factory load I tried was generally MOA or a little better. Some rifles just don't like some loads.

[ammo.crafter]

Good accuracy out of Contender 23-inch bull barrel with the32's.
Have you played with several powder, primer combinations?

[bow shot]

Ifishsum: Yeah, If I don't see something go well with the sierras, the gun is going to the doctor.

ammo.crafter: I've been slowly dialing this one.

Started @ COAL and varied powder (2 types) in 0.2 gr increments to bets group. Then adjusted OAL in 0.01" increments from there to a slightly better group. The repeated the entire process with primer type #2. Then repeated the entire process with primer type #3.

[WIN71]

Yes I had trouble with v-max. I gave up on them 5 years ago while working up loads in a Cooper. At that time if mine would have been even close to 1/2 inch it would have been ok. I used H-335, BLC-2, and 748. I also used 30 and 35 Bergers, 32 Sierra's, 32 BT, and just last week 26 gr. Barnes.

The best loads for each bullet are between .265 and .295. In my rifle it seems the faster they go the better they shoot which is not what commonly occurs in my other rifles. Bench rest primers were a must and in the 26 gr. Barnes load, Federal BR primers cut the group size in half compared to Remington 7 1/2 primers.

I've settled with 32 gr. bullets for the varmint load. All three of the powders I used were about equal as far as accuracy. I'm probably going to chrono the best load with each powder and pick the fastest. Although while working up the loads there wasn't much difference.

I don’t use the rifle much for target shooting so it’s taking a while to burn up the original 3 pounds of powder.

[uncyboo]

I just loaded some 26 grn. Barnes VGs to try in mine.

bow shot, have you shot those Sierras yet?