Revolver Replacement and previous recipes

Ben_Snow · July 1, 2017, 12:19 AM

My GP100 MC is going to be warranty replaced by Ruger. The Frame and Crane assembly are binding when the gun heats up making it difficult to close the cylinder.

Anyways, my question: We all know that handloading recipes are tuned to the gun, we try different loads until we hit the sweet spot(s) for each firearm. When my new GP100 is received, how valid will be my 'old' GP100 recipes. Will significant variations in the manufacturing process exist so that I need to start over, or will I still be roughly in the ballpark?

Thanks

Salmoneye · July 1, 2017, 07:12 AM

Every gun is an entity unto itself...

Your old loads may very well work, but then they may not...

You may have tighter throats than your last revolver, or a constriction at the forcing cone, and on and on...

Only way to know is to try, but if it were me, I'd drop back to starting loads and work back up...

Go from there...

Jim Watson · July 1, 2017, 07:50 AM

All my revolvers of the same caliber get the same ammo. I guess they would benefit from tailored loads for NRA or PPC but not for IDPA, CAS, hideout gun practice, etc.

Automatics can be picky but I try to minimize the number of "recipes" in use.

Nathan · July 1, 2017, 05:27 PM

My vote is for roughly in the ball park.

Snyper · July 1, 2017, 06:06 PM

If you weren't loading them all to the absolute max, I wouldn't worry about them not working in the new gun.

Ben_Snow · July 1, 2017, 11:00 PM

Quote:

I wouldn't worry about them not working in the new gun.

Were did I say I was worried about them not working?

I was inquiring about variations in the manufacturing process that can cause variations of the "optimal" load.

For example: My GP100 MC has an optimal accuracy load of 5.4gr of AA#5 with a 158gr HP (.38SP). Suppose I purchased the same gun that was next off the assembly line after my original, would that also produce the same optimal result with the same load?

So far I have received two posts with tangible answers:

(1) No it will be different, each gun is unique
(1) It will be in the ballpark

Myself, I think it may be in the ballpark, but a very large ballpark.

Anyone else?

reddog81 · July 2, 2017, 12:07 AM

I would hope it fairly close. I'm assuming MC stands for Match Champion which would mean it is a fairly recent manufacture. I would guess the MC has slightly better tolerances than you average GP100, but I could be wrong. Either way I bet the old loads are pretty close to the same sweet spot.

How rounds per minute did you have to shoot to heat up the frame to bind against the cylinder. I've got some old S&W's with barely any noticeable crack when closed and have never run into problems.

Ben_Snow · July 2, 2017, 12:50 AM

Reddog

It would bind up depending on the powder load and Rate of Fire.

I assumed the problem was a dirty Center Pin lock, Center Pin rod, or dirt under the ejector star. Always followed the same process after a malfunction; would disassemble, and then provide a thorough ultrasonic (cleaner & lube) bath to all parts. After re-assembly it would dry fire and open/close flawlessly until the next trip to the range.

Last week I did a close inspection while the gun was still dirty, noticed scrape marks on the frame below the forcing cone (with matching scrapes on the crane). The heat from firing was enough to slightly close the gap between these two surfaces and cause the jamming, once it cooled the gap re-opened and the problem magically dissapeared. The engineers at Ruger (based on my photo & description) verified the problem as a manufacturing tolerance defect and offered to replace my gun for free.

Nothing but praise for Ruger, it was refreshing to speak directly with the GP100 line supervisor and a lead engineer vs a customer service person. Since the chamfering was done aftermarket they offered to have that done for free, and since the replacement has to be transferred via a local dealer they insisted on paying the FFL fee, way to go Ruger!

By the Way...the Match Champion is mostly marketing..... It has a slab side barrel (with laser etched 'match champion' ), and a shortened underlug. It also comes with a Novak Adjustable rear sight and fiber optic front (both dovetailed). The whole assembly is marketed as 'match ready' including a tuned and polished trigger assembly, but really couldn't tell the difference from the stock model.

FITASC · July 2, 2017, 07:41 AM

What type of loads and firing are you doing ton get it to heat up enough to start binding?

Ben_Snow · July 2, 2017, 09:15 AM

Nothing hot.... Was using .38 SP that fall well below pressure limitations for a .357M.

One load was 3.6gr of Titegroup w/158gr Target Flat Point (plated), Fed 100 Primer, and Starline 38sp brass with a COL of 1.430. QuickLoad list this as producing an effective Pmax of 16,503 PSI @ .32" in barrel. The overall Pmax for a .357M is 35K PSI, so this load is considered very light as far as pressure. The heat produced is 4055 kJ at explosion. I was also firing loads of AA#5 which produces a higher 4500 kJ (at explosion), and other days was using Bullseye which is even hotter @ 5158 kJ.

Heat dissipation (in my lay opinion) is what contributed to the problem. I was practicing for IDPA which involved rapid firing ( 6 rounds) followed by two successive tactical reloads (and then each of those with rapid fire).

July 1, 2017, 12:19 AM	#1
Ben_Snow Member Join Date: January 24, 2017 Location: Ten Strikes, AZ Posts: 98	Revolver Replacement and previous recipes My GP100 MC is going to be warranty replaced by Ruger. The Frame and Crane assembly are binding when the gun heats up making it difficult to close the cylinder. Anyways, my question: We all know that handloading recipes are tuned to the gun, we try different loads until we hit the sweet spot(s) for each firearm. When my new GP100 is received, how valid will be my 'old' GP100 recipes. Will significant variations in the manufacturing process exist so that I need to start over, or will I still be roughly in the ballpark? Thanks

July 2, 2017, 12:50 AM	#8
Ben_Snow Member Join Date: January 24, 2017 Location: Ten Strikes, AZ Posts: 98	Reddog It would bind up depending on the powder load and Rate of Fire. I assumed the problem was a dirty Center Pin lock, Center Pin rod, or dirt under the ejector star. Always followed the same process after a malfunction; would disassemble, and then provide a thorough ultrasonic (cleaner & lube) bath to all parts. After re-assembly it would dry fire and open/close flawlessly until the next trip to the range. Last week I did a close inspection while the gun was still dirty, noticed scrape marks on the frame below the forcing cone (with matching scrapes on the crane). The heat from firing was enough to slightly close the gap between these two surfaces and cause the jamming, once it cooled the gap re-opened and the problem magically dissapeared. The engineers at Ruger (based on my photo & description) verified the problem as a manufacturing tolerance defect and offered to replace my gun for free. Nothing but praise for Ruger, it was refreshing to speak directly with the GP100 line supervisor and a lead engineer vs a customer service person. Since the chamfering was done aftermarket they offered to have that done for free, and since the replacement has to be transferred via a local dealer they insisted on paying the FFL fee, way to go Ruger! By the Way...the Match Champion is mostly marketing..... It has a slab side barrel (with laser etched 'match champion' ), and a shortened underlug. It also comes with a Novak Adjustable rear sight and fiber optic front (both dovetailed). The whole assembly is marketed as 'match ready' including a tuned and polished trigger assembly, but really couldn't tell the difference from the stock model. Last edited by Ben_Snow; July 2, 2017 at 01:01 AM.

July 2, 2017, 07:41 AM	#9
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,469	What type of loads and firing are you doing ton get it to heat up enough to start binding? __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

July 2, 2017, 09:15 AM	#10
Ben_Snow Member Join Date: January 24, 2017 Location: Ten Strikes, AZ Posts: 98	Nothing hot.... Was using .38 SP that fall well below pressure limitations for a .357M. One load was 3.6gr of Titegroup w/158gr Target Flat Point (plated), Fed 100 Primer, and Starline 38sp brass with a COL of 1.430. QuickLoad list this as producing an effective Pmax of 16,503 PSI @ .32" in barrel. The overall Pmax for a .357M is 35K PSI, so this load is considered very light as far as pressure. The heat produced is 4055 kJ at explosion. I was also firing loads of AA#5 which produces a higher 4500 kJ (at explosion), and other days was using Bullseye which is even hotter @ 5158 kJ. Heat dissipation (in my lay opinion) is what contributed to the problem. I was practicing for IDPA which involved rapid firing ( 6 rounds) followed by two successive tactical reloads (and then each of those with rapid fire). Last edited by Ben_Snow; July 2, 2017 at 09:22 AM.

July 1, 2017, 07:12 AM	#2
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	Every gun is an entity unto itself... Your old loads may very well work, but then they may not... You may have tighter throats than your last revolver, or a constriction at the forcing cone, and on and on... Only way to know is to try, but if it were me, I'd drop back to starting loads and work back up... Go from there...

July 1, 2017, 07:50 AM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,618	All my revolvers of the same caliber get the same ammo. I guess they would benefit from tailored loads for NRA or PPC but not for IDPA, CAS, hideout gun practice, etc. Automatics can be picky but I try to minimize the number of "recipes" in use.

July 1, 2017, 05:27 PM	#4
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,365	My vote is for roughly in the ball park.

July 1, 2017, 06:06 PM	#5
Snyper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2013 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 3,047	If you weren't loading them all to the absolute max, I wouldn't worry about them not working in the new gun.

July 2, 2017, 12:07 AM	#7
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,641	I would hope it fairly close. I'm assuming MC stands for Match Champion which would mean it is a fairly recent manufacture. I would guess the MC has slightly better tolerances than you average GP100, but I could be wrong. Either way I bet the old loads are pretty close to the same sweet spot. How rounds per minute did you have to shoot to heat up the frame to bind against the cylinder. I've got some old S&W's with barely any noticeable crack when closed and have never run into problems.