Casting Large Bullets

Old 454 · June 3, 2013, 10:24 PM

I will be casting some 300 gr. gas check bullets out of Lee molds.

I tryed at a friends house and well lets just say we were less then successfull lol.

They droped easy enough from the mold but they were terrible looking.

He kept saying .. damn these are big ass bullets, looks like the mold could be a little bigger.

So is there a trick to casting these big bullets ? Any info from you guys would be great.

Oh we were using a Lyman #2 mix.

m&p45acp10+1 · June 4, 2013, 04:45 AM

Preheat the mold. I use a gas stove on medium low for 10 minutes.

dahermit · June 4, 2013, 04:51 AM

Quote:

...but they were terrible looking...

Frosted?...or more likely, wrinkled. There are three causes of wrinkled bullets. 1. Mold too cool. Preheat the mold by dipping the corner in the melt or on a hot plate, or lay the mold blocks on the top edge of the pot when melting the alloy. 2. Oil in the mold. Degrease the mold. 3. Melt too cool. Turn the pot up slightly higher. Although #3 is less likely than #1 or #2.
Pictures of the bullets would make remove the nebulous aspect of, "...terrible looking...". That might have meant that you did not like the design of the bullet.

Mike / Tx · June 4, 2013, 04:54 AM

How many cavities on your mold?

Sounds like your not up to temp with it just yet.

If you do the preheat on the stove, set a iron skillet, or old skill saw blade on top of the burner to equalize the heat, and keep it from being directly on the aluminum mold. IF you heat it straight up you could possibly and easily war the aluminum.

If your using the 6 cavity old, just start out with the first two holes and pour as fast as you can to get the heat up. Once you start throwing a good bullet from those add another hole. Repeat until your pouring all six cavities.

The big bullet molds like heat, and they can cool off pretty quick as well. I use several in the 300gr range. I try and keep my pot temp in the 650 - 675 degree range, and pour fast enough to just get a light frosting on the bullets. So far it has worked great and it helps keep the tumble lube on them as well. (Thats my story and I'm stickin to it anyway)

FrankenMauser · June 4, 2013, 02:23 PM

Big bullets in a small aluminum mold = run hot and fast.

Big bullets in a small brass mold = run fast until hot, then slow down and run just fast enough to keep the mold at temperature. (Overheat and warp = ruined mold.)

I haven't run big bullets in a steel/iron mold yet. But, I assume it would be more like brass than aluminum.

mehavey · June 4, 2013, 02:44 PM

Read this string through to the end:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...er-seen-before

We're talking heavy/bigtime here for the 45-90. I'm also casting at 700+a bit for lighter 45-70/405's
with Lyman#2 (even though the 45-90's were 540gr at 780-ish using 30:1). The bigger boolit requires
both preheat and 30-sec cool times w/ steel moulds, the lighter has a cool time of 20 sec.

Being aluminum in your case, the mould should come up to temp more quickly, and the bullet cool-to-solid
more quickly as well. Work relatively hot, with mould release times (15 sec?) as soon as you stop
getting "broken boolits"

bbqncigars · June 4, 2013, 10:02 PM

My 'little' 535gr 45-70 boolits like a steady pace in their aluminum blocks, but the 850gr 50BMG pills like to have the 3cavity blocks and sprue plate cooled a little between pours (much slower pace). All of my aluminum blocks were sprayed out with carb cleaner, then all internal surfaces were scrubbed with a toothbrush in very hot soapy water before rinsing and drying before casting. Pre-heating adequately will keep wrinkles to a minimum. Frost doesn't bother me, but sharp fill out is mandatory.

reloader28 · June 4, 2013, 10:26 PM

It seems like I have to slow down when casting the big boolits to keep the mold cool enough.
The 2 cavity 130gr are way faster casting than my 2 cav 300grainers.

Old 454 · June 5, 2013, 05:22 PM

Yes they are 2 cavity aluminium molds.

yes I figured that a cast temp for thes might be close to 800 deg. to keep the molds hot.

As far as pics go, they were so ugly they went right back into the pot.

There was no defined edges and generly more wrinkles then an old folks home.

Just a really sloppy looking bullet.

These were my first attemps at casting any bullets. lol

So then I went to a 357 2 cavity mold and had much bettor success when the mold got hot. I wound up with about 120 good bullets in about 45 minutes of casting. It might have been longer but I wasn't paying much attention to the clock.

Thanks guys for all the info. It has really helped.

Oh yeah, I got a really nice score of lead the other day. Talked to one of my welding buddys at work and he was just getting ready to pich some lead. He gave it to me and it weighted out at 85.5 LBS. This is all old lead removed from Bell & Spigot joints from old gas mains and is probably close to a hundred years old.

myfriendis410 · June 5, 2013, 08:30 PM

You need a bit of tin in the melt to allow the alloy to "wet" to the mold as well as hot enough. The melt has to be hot enough and some molds require slightly different pour techniques. I have one mold that refuses to cast (bottom pour pot) unless the sprue plate is right up in the nipple of the casting furnace. Others require differing distances from the nipple to properly fill the mold. Clean and dry with a bit of soot on the mold may help but I have little experience with aluminum. Mine are cast iron and I cast up in the 520 gr. range.

orisolo · June 5, 2013, 08:45 PM

Your mold is too cold probably.
I'm casting 2,3,4 & 5oz Bank sinkers (a little more then average bullet mold).
When the mold is cold I'm getting half's and broken sinkers.

I found the fastest way to heat the mold is cast into it 2-3 times drop the sinkers (Bullets) back in the pot.
Its lead you can cast over and over again LOL.

Make sure your pot is running at good temp. If lead is to cold it will go solid before the cast is over and you will get "layers"

TXGunNut · June 5, 2013, 09:10 PM

Aluminum moulds with big cavities like to run hot, just keep a damp rag around in case they get too hot. Frosty is OK but tapping you foot while the sprue hardens is another thing.

Old 454 · June 5, 2013, 10:11 PM

thanks guys, all dooly noted.

Another quick question.

I ordered five bars of super hard and 5 LBS of tin from roto metals.

I will be doing 20 LBS batch runs off my furnace.

In pounds and onces what is the ration of lead-superhard-tin

FrankenMauser · June 6, 2013, 12:53 AM

Quote:

yes I figured that a cast temp for thes might be close to 800 deg. to keep the molds hot.

You shouldn't need to run that hot. I cast bullets up to 450 grains at a temperature no hotter than 750 degrees (generally 725 degrees), even with low-tin alloys.

Running that hot is just a waste of time (waiting for molds to cool), and a waste of energy.

Quote:

In pounds and onces what is the ration of lead-superhard-tin

What alloy are you trying to replicate?
Or...
What bullets, in what gun, at what pressure level, for what purpose?

Sure Shot Mc Gee · June 6, 2013, 03:11 AM

These two sites may help you.

http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm

http://www.lasc.us/castbulletnotes.htm

Sorry just can't seem to make them into touch & go links. Just copy and paste to your browser. You'll get to the needed info.

S/S

Old 454 · June 6, 2013, 04:30 PM

Sorry about that I am trying for Lyman #2

I know its 90 lead-5 tin-5 antimony

this type will be used pretty much used for all my calibers 380acp, 9mm, 357, 45acp and 454 casull (Gas Checked).

I am shooting for around 14-15 BN

m&p45acp10+1 · June 6, 2013, 08:06 PM

I find it a wase of good alloy running Lyman #2 at standard pistol velocities, and pressures. I have the best luck with those from standard clamp on wheel weights that were air cooled. Lack of hardness is not the cause of most cases of leading. Poor bullet fit from undersized bullets is usualy the casue. Many seem to make the matter even worse when they start trying to go with a harder alloy instead of using a bullet that is oversized enough.

Old 454 · June 6, 2013, 10:25 PM

Hmm food for though...I am going to have to slug the barrels.

My 454 and 357 I tend to push one the high end. the rest just mid range loads.

I do have sizers for .452 and .356(9mm) going to have to get one for the 357.

So what would you suggest as far as a BN ?....12-13 ?

myfriendis410 · June 7, 2013, 09:33 AM

I keep harping on this: the lube you use can be critical to the accuracy of your cast bullets. I had a project with a Sharps using heavy bullets cast from wheel weights and heat treated that WOULD NOT SHOOT until I made up my own lube recipe. The commercial stick lubes I've used produced keyholes at 100 yards with surprising regularity. Do some research and take the time to develop a good lube for your cast bullets. For top of the line velocities you may even want to consider a paper patch.

Mike / Tx · June 7, 2013, 07:11 PM

I got caught short on time this morning or I would have posted these numbers then, but better late than never.

Food for thought,

Composition of various alloys, the COWW (clip on wheel weight) is pretty close and gathered from a reliable source. That said it might also depend on how many times it may have been recycled.

Anyway here we go,

Description

Super Hard - Tin = 0% Antimony = 30.00% Arsenic = 0% Lead = 70.0% Hardness = Brinell 36

COWW - Tin = .50% Antimony = 3.00% Arsenic = .25% Lead = 96.3% Hardness = Brinell 12

Lyman #2 - Tin = 5% Antimony = 5.00% Arsenic = 0% Lead = 90.0% Hardness = Brinell 15

Hardball Alloy - Tin = 2% Antimony = 6.00% Arsenic = 0% Lead = 92.0% Hardness = Brinell 16

Taking the above, if you purchased the Hardball alloy from Rotometals, and blended it 50/50 with pure, you would end up with an alloy really close to clip on wheel weights. This is based solely on calculations using an alloy calculator I downloaded from CB's. It isn't always exact, but it comes in close enough to usually hit within a point or three of the hardness I am looking for when blending up alloys of known composition.

For the calibers your looking at pouring, I wouldn't worry about getting the super hard, but get the hard ball instead. As for the tin, a one pound roll of 95-5 solder will go a long ways when pouring up 10 - 20 pound pots and adding in a 4-6" strip if needed for fill out.

Go for fit first and see where that gets you. Even using the Lee Alox you should be able to shoot around 80% or more loads from those calibers. Of them all the 9mm will probably give you the most fits. This however is based entirely on what I read as I do not have but one pistol in that range and it's a .380 that I don't cast for. If I shot it more than about 10 times a year I might, but it is a nightstand thing so it gets cleaned and oiled more than shot.

I shoot .38 SPL, .357, 41 and 44 mags, 45 ACP and a 454. Other than the hot loaded 300gr GC'ed 454 bullets everything else is plain based, and most everything including the 454 is tumbled lubed. I am playing around with a couple of bullets for the 357's and 41's and dip lubing with some Carnuba Red from White Label Lubes with great results, but I have only shot 50 or so rounds from each. As mentioned the lube can make a difference, but with 95% of my loads the Alox or actually the 45-45-10, has done a great job. You can also pick up the 45-45-10 from White Label Lubes already blended up as well.

Boomer58cal · June 10, 2013, 03:43 PM

My aluminum .62 900g mould likes to run hot and fast.

Boomer

Old 454 · June 10, 2013, 05:12 PM

This all great info, befor I took the challange to cast I allways bought hardcast bullets from S-N-S casting.

So it looks like I can save alot of money going to the hard ware and buy soldier the 95-5 stuff.

And for my 9mm 380acp and 45 acp and mid range 357 I can use a lead of about 12 BN with out leading.

I am currently sitting on about 115 pounds of clean fluxed lead. this should go pretty far with these lead formulas.

Once again thank you all for the tips!

June 4, 2013, 04:54 AM	#4
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	How many cavities on your mold? Sounds like your not up to temp with it just yet. If you do the preheat on the stove, set a iron skillet, or old skill saw blade on top of the burner to equalize the heat, and keep it from being directly on the aluminum mold. IF you heat it straight up you could possibly and easily war the aluminum. If your using the 6 cavity old, just start out with the first two holes and pour as fast as you can to get the heat up. Once you start throwing a good bullet from those add another hole. Repeat until your pouring all six cavities. The big bullet molds like heat, and they can cool off pretty quick as well. I use several in the 300gr range. I try and keep my pot temp in the 650 - 675 degree range, and pour fast enough to just get a light frosting on the bullets. So far it has worked great and it helps keep the tumble lube on them as well. (Thats my story and I'm stickin to it anyway) __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

June 4, 2013, 02:23 PM	#5
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,427	Big bullets in a small aluminum mold = run hot and fast. Big bullets in a small brass mold = run fast until hot, then slow down and run just fast enough to keep the mold at temperature. (Overheat and warp = ruined mold.) I haven't run big bullets in a steel/iron mold yet. But, I assume it would be more like brass than aluminum. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

June 4, 2013, 10:02 PM	#7
bbqncigars Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 525	My 'little' 535gr 45-70 boolits like a steady pace in their aluminum blocks, but the 850gr 50BMG pills like to have the 3cavity blocks and sprue plate cooled a little between pours (much slower pace). All of my aluminum blocks were sprayed out with carb cleaner, then all internal surfaces were scrubbed with a toothbrush in very hot soapy water before rinsing and drying before casting. Pre-heating adequately will keep wrinkles to a minimum. Frost doesn't bother me, but sharp fill out is mandatory. __________________ "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." A. Brilliant

June 5, 2013, 08:45 PM	#11
orisolo Member Join Date: April 24, 2013 Posts: 31	Your mold is too cold probably. I'm casting 2,3,4 & 5oz Bank sinkers (a little more then average bullet mold). When the mold is cold I'm getting half's and broken sinkers. I found the fastest way to heat the mold is cast into it 2-3 times drop the sinkers (Bullets) back in the pot. Its lead you can cast over and over again LOL. Make sure your pot is running at good temp. If lead is to cold it will go solid before the cast is over and you will get "layers" __________________ I Got a lot of brass... http://300aacbrass.com/ -10% Coupon use code " forum-10 " "Who was born a Donkey will not die a Horse" (Unknown author - A fact of life)

June 5, 2013, 09:10 PM	#12
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	Aluminum moulds with big cavities like to run hot, just keep a damp rag around in case they get too hot. Frosty is OK but tapping you foot while the sprue hardens is another thing. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

June 3, 2013, 10:24 PM	#1
Old 454 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2011 Location: Chesterton Ind. Posts: 822	Casting Large Bullets I will be casting some 300 gr. gas check bullets out of Lee molds. I tryed at a friends house and well lets just say we were less then successfull lol. They droped easy enough from the mold but they were terrible looking. He kept saying .. damn these are big ass bullets, looks like the mold could be a little bigger. So is there a trick to casting these big bullets ? Any info from you guys would be great. Oh we were using a Lyman #2 mix.

June 4, 2013, 04:45 AM	#2
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	Preheat the mold. I use a gas stove on medium low for 10 minutes. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

June 4, 2013, 02:44 PM	#6
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,903	Read this string through to the end: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...er-seen-before We're talking heavy/bigtime here for the 45-90. I'm also casting at 700+a bit for lighter 45-70/405's with Lyman#2 (even though the 45-90's were 540gr at 780-ish using 30:1). The bigger boolit requires both preheat and 30-sec cool times w/ steel moulds, the lighter has a cool time of 20 sec. Being aluminum in your case, the mould should come up to temp more quickly, and the bullet cool-to-solid more quickly as well. Work relatively hot, with mould release times (15 sec?) as soon as you stop getting "broken boolits"

June 4, 2013, 10:26 PM	#8
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	It seems like I have to slow down when casting the big boolits to keep the mold cool enough. The 2 cavity 130gr are way faster casting than my 2 cav 300grainers.

June 5, 2013, 05:22 PM	#9
Old 454 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2011 Location: Chesterton Ind. Posts: 822	Yes they are 2 cavity aluminium molds. yes I figured that a cast temp for thes might be close to 800 deg. to keep the molds hot. As far as pics go, they were so ugly they went right back into the pot. There was no defined edges and generly more wrinkles then an old folks home. Just a really sloppy looking bullet. These were my first attemps at casting any bullets. lol So then I went to a 357 2 cavity mold and had much bettor success when the mold got hot. I wound up with about 120 good bullets in about 45 minutes of casting. It might have been longer but I wasn't paying much attention to the clock. Thanks guys for all the info. It has really helped. Oh yeah, I got a really nice score of lead the other day. Talked to one of my welding buddys at work and he was just getting ready to pich some lead. He gave it to me and it weighted out at 85.5 LBS. This is all old lead removed from Bell & Spigot joints from old gas mains and is probably close to a hundred years old.

June 5, 2013, 08:30 PM	#10
myfriendis410 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Location: Lompoc California Posts: 274	You need a bit of tin in the melt to allow the alloy to "wet" to the mold as well as hot enough. The melt has to be hot enough and some molds require slightly different pour techniques. I have one mold that refuses to cast (bottom pour pot) unless the sprue plate is right up in the nipple of the casting furnace. Others require differing distances from the nipple to properly fill the mold. Clean and dry with a bit of soot on the mold may help but I have little experience with aluminum. Mine are cast iron and I cast up in the 520 gr. range.

June 5, 2013, 10:11 PM	#13
Old 454 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2011 Location: Chesterton Ind. Posts: 822	thanks guys, all dooly noted. Another quick question. I ordered five bars of super hard and 5 LBS of tin from roto metals. I will be doing 20 LBS batch runs off my furnace. In pounds and onces what is the ration of lead-superhard-tin

June 6, 2013, 03:11 AM	#15
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	These two sites may help you. http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm http://www.lasc.us/castbulletnotes.htm Sorry just can't seem to make them into touch & go links. Just copy and paste to your browser. You'll get to the needed info. S/S Last edited by Sure Shot Mc Gee; June 6, 2013 at 03:25 AM.

June 6, 2013, 04:30 PM	#16
Old 454 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2011 Location: Chesterton Ind. Posts: 822	Sorry about that I am trying for Lyman #2 I know its 90 lead-5 tin-5 antimony this type will be used pretty much used for all my calibers 380acp, 9mm, 357, 45acp and 454 casull (Gas Checked). I am shooting for around 14-15 BN

June 6, 2013, 08:06 PM	#17
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	I find it a wase of good alloy running Lyman #2 at standard pistol velocities, and pressures. I have the best luck with those from standard clamp on wheel weights that were air cooled. Lack of hardness is not the cause of most cases of leading. Poor bullet fit from undersized bullets is usualy the casue. Many seem to make the matter even worse when they start trying to go with a harder alloy instead of using a bullet that is oversized enough. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

June 6, 2013, 10:25 PM	#18
Old 454 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2011 Location: Chesterton Ind. Posts: 822	Hmm food for though...I am going to have to slug the barrels. My 454 and 357 I tend to push one the high end. the rest just mid range loads. I do have sizers for .452 and .356(9mm) going to have to get one for the 357. So what would you suggest as far as a BN ?....12-13 ?

June 7, 2013, 09:33 AM	#19
myfriendis410 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Location: Lompoc California Posts: 274	I keep harping on this: the lube you use can be critical to the accuracy of your cast bullets. I had a project with a Sharps using heavy bullets cast from wheel weights and heat treated that WOULD NOT SHOOT until I made up my own lube recipe. The commercial stick lubes I've used produced keyholes at 100 yards with surprising regularity. Do some research and take the time to develop a good lube for your cast bullets. For top of the line velocities you may even want to consider a paper patch.

June 7, 2013, 07:11 PM	#20
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	I got caught short on time this morning or I would have posted these numbers then, but better late than never. Food for thought, Composition of various alloys, the COWW (clip on wheel weight) is pretty close and gathered from a reliable source. That said it might also depend on how many times it may have been recycled. Anyway here we go, Description Super Hard - Tin = 0% Antimony = 30.00% Arsenic = 0% Lead = 70.0% Hardness = Brinell 36 COWW - Tin = .50% Antimony = 3.00% Arsenic = .25% Lead = 96.3% Hardness = Brinell 12 Lyman #2 - Tin = 5% Antimony = 5.00% Arsenic = 0% Lead = 90.0% Hardness = Brinell 15 Hardball Alloy - Tin = 2% Antimony = 6.00% Arsenic = 0% Lead = 92.0% Hardness = Brinell 16 Taking the above, if you purchased the Hardball alloy from Rotometals, and blended it 50/50 with pure, you would end up with an alloy really close to clip on wheel weights. This is based solely on calculations using an alloy calculator I downloaded from CB's. It isn't always exact, but it comes in close enough to usually hit within a point or three of the hardness I am looking for when blending up alloys of known composition. For the calibers your looking at pouring, I wouldn't worry about getting the super hard, but get the hard ball instead. As for the tin, a one pound roll of 95-5 solder will go a long ways when pouring up 10 - 20 pound pots and adding in a 4-6" strip if needed for fill out. Go for fit first and see where that gets you. Even using the Lee Alox you should be able to shoot around 80% or more loads from those calibers. Of them all the 9mm will probably give you the most fits. This however is based entirely on what I read as I do not have but one pistol in that range and it's a .380 that I don't cast for. If I shot it more than about 10 times a year I might, but it is a nightstand thing so it gets cleaned and oiled more than shot. I shoot .38 SPL, .357, 41 and 44 mags, 45 ACP and a 454. Other than the hot loaded 300gr GC'ed 454 bullets everything else is plain based, and most everything including the 454 is tumbled lubed. I am playing around with a couple of bullets for the 357's and 41's and dip lubing with some Carnuba Red from White Label Lubes with great results, but I have only shot 50 or so rounds from each. As mentioned the lube can make a difference, but with 95% of my loads the Alox or actually the 45-45-10, has done a great job. You can also pick up the 45-45-10 from White Label Lubes already blended up as well. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX Last edited by Mike / Tx; June 7, 2013 at 07:22 PM.

June 10, 2013, 03:43 PM	#21
Boomer58cal Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2013 Location: closer than you think Posts: 967	My aluminum .62 900g mould likes to run hot and fast. Boomer __________________ The number one cause of death in the 20th century. 290,000,000 citizens were first disarmed and then murdered by their own governments. This number does not include those killed in war. We're from the government, we're here to help

June 10, 2013, 05:12 PM	#22
Old 454 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2011 Location: Chesterton Ind. Posts: 822	This all great info, befor I took the challange to cast I allways bought hardcast bullets from S-N-S casting. So it looks like I can save alot of money going to the hard ware and buy soldier the 95-5 stuff. And for my 9mm 380acp and 45 acp and mid range 357 I can use a lead of about 12 BN with out leading. I am currently sitting on about 115 pounds of clean fluxed lead. this should go pretty far with these lead formulas. Once again thank you all for the tips!