September 5, 2019, 08:08 PM | #1 |
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Sanctuary county
I have heard all the ruckus about San Francisco and the very anti NRA bill they passed and just to let everyone know that my home county, Blount county, earlier this year became the 2nd county in Tennessee to become a sanctuary county for the second amendment. You folks may want to consider such a plan for your home town too.
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September 5, 2019, 10:15 PM | #2 | |
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September 5, 2019, 10:46 PM | #3 |
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Basically, the county is refusing to enforce any new gun-control laws the state legislature might pass.
It's a nice symbolic measure, but it's useless in practice, and it's worse than useless because it creates an illusion of safety.
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September 5, 2019, 11:12 PM | #4 |
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I oppose Sanctuary Cities that illegally attempt to shield criminal invaders from federal law, ergo I oppose other efforts to defy laws duly passed, whether I like them or not. The uninformed will imagine that the symbolic sanctuary will protect them. And it will not.
A simple resolution condemning specific laws that the state, county, or municipality opposes, or better, one that reaffirms one's individual and unalienable right to keep and bear arms would serve the political messaging needs of blow-hard politicians without putting any of their constituents at unnecessary risk. |
September 5, 2019, 11:36 PM | #5 | ||
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Hmmm ...
From the resolution (after all the "whereases"): Quote:
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September 6, 2019, 01:19 AM | #6 |
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Even if they meant it seriously and not as just a political gesture, the county controls what, the County Sheriff and deputies, only. And while the sheriff might agree and not enforce new gun control laws, in order to protect county residents from enforcement by OTHER LEO groups, the sheriff would have to arrest those law enforcement officers in order to keep them from doing "their duty", wouldn't they???
I understand this is a complex legal can of worms, and that under certain specific circumstances, the Sheriff MIGHT have the legal authority to refuse other LEO personnel from operating in his jurisdiction, this isn't an area where we have much legal precedent to go on. The problem is the way we define things. I believe, it is established that one does not have a duty to obey an unconstitutional law. But, this is a Catch-22 thing (again). No law is unconstitutional, until declared so, by the High Court, at which time, it ceases to be a law. You, or I, or the whole county can believe a law is unconstitutional but until the proper court rules so, that is just our opinion, and not fact.
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September 6, 2019, 09:51 AM | #7 |
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In my state, at least, sheriffs are completely independent from the county government except---and it's a big exception---for their budgets.
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September 6, 2019, 11:42 AM | #8 | ||||
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Federal Officers are specifically authorized by State Statue to make arrests (38-3-113) for non-Federal felonies and misdemeanor breach of the peace under TN Code. The sheriff and his deputies can be charged for neglect of duty for failing to make an arrest (38-3-107)
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September 6, 2019, 12:48 PM | #9 | |
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IF for example, they were attempting to conduct an illegal search (such s without a valid search warrant) the Sheriff could tell them, to stop, and go away, and come back when you have a valid search warrant. I believe the Sheriff would be within their authority to do that, and even arrest the agents if they failed to comply. However, that is a far fetched and highly unlikely situation, though not an absolutely impossible one. The Sheriff does not have the authority to interfere just because they don't like the law the agents are enforcing. They would have to be doing something outside the law for the sheriff to be valid taking action, but if they were, he could.
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September 6, 2019, 04:25 PM | #10 | |
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But what we are talking about here is the sheriff stopping some other LEA from taking lawful actions under TN code due to a county ordinance. If that happened the sheriff could be charged for interfering. If the sheriff starts waving around his pocket copy of the constitution and telling TBI they can't arrest people because it is against the law he is going to have a bad day. I don't think that is too far fetched either. That is the kind of political nonsense a tiny number of sheriff's engage in.
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September 6, 2019, 08:34 PM | #11 |
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Blount county
I don't know the legalities of it all but I think it makes a statement to gun grabbers that the vast majority of this county ( about 130,000) supports the 2nd amendment. I would venture a guess that it has about as much legal standing as the sanctuary cities for illegals does. I do know that just as the police in Nashville did nothing to help ICE agents a few weeks ago during an attempted arrest that the police have said they wouldn't help state or federal agents in enforcement of any gun confiscations. Heck one of the police captains held a pro gun political rally a few years ago across the street from the court house.I do think though that if enough people get together to do this and show some willingness to stand up the gun haters will tread lightly. Besides if you come to East Tennessee, or go to see the Smokey mountains you will know that you have friends here.
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September 7, 2019, 08:04 AM | #12 | |
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And this is toothless. If there's a statement to be made, the gun-control lobby won't notice and doesn't care. It won't deter them.
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September 7, 2019, 11:45 AM | #13 |
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I disagree
At least it's something! I live in the real world where I interact with lots of people every day. All I hear is people complaining that nobody is listening to them. They've lost hope and have given up that their values, beliefs, and opinions matter. All they hear is negativity and see how the laws and morals of society are sneered at by people who want to take away their rights, and exert control over them. Yes, it may be futile, useless, pointless, worthless or a waste of time, but at least someone is trying to do something. It has to start somewhere ,somehow, some way.
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September 7, 2019, 12:14 PM | #14 | |
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It reminds me of a video clip I saw several years ago of some city or county governing board that was discussing a vote on some anti-gun ordinance they were considering. A member of the audience spoke up and reminded them that the state had a preemption law, so the ordinance they were discussing could not be enforced. And one of the lawmakers then went on record as saying he didn't care if it couldn't be enforced, because "we've got to do something." Perhaps I'm even more of a curmudgeon than I thought but, for me, doing something means DOING something, not throwing out a bunch of hot air and empty words. As Shakespeare said in Macbeth, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
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September 7, 2019, 12:22 PM | #15 | |
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September 8, 2019, 03:10 PM | #16 |
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Shakespeare
Shakespeare also said " First we kill the lawyers "but......If you think it's pointless then I would love to hear some ideas as to what to do. I hope since it seems staff is all that is answering that no one is getting angry to shut this off. There is no animosity on this side. I think that this would have the same legal standing in court as sanctuary cities does, I'm sorry to say that I didn't know until recently that Nashville's mayor has made it one. And heaven knows they are clogging up the works on that front. As far as I know they don't have anymore legal precedent than this does. And as I said before people are getting frustrated so they feel they must try something. It's very hard for me to just keep sending the NRA money and expecting it to do something when they aren't attacking like I want them to. The story about the $6 million mansion doesn't help.
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September 8, 2019, 03:38 PM | #17 | |
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That said, this is a response to your comment but I don't see quite how it relates to San Francisco labeling the NRA a terrorist organization. I view that as both inflammatory and libelous, and completely unrelated to LaPierre's peccadilloes.
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September 9, 2019, 11:14 AM | #18 | |
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September 10, 2019, 06:58 AM | #19 |
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So what to do
So far there are numerous posts saying this is a bad idea. So I will ask again what do you suggest people like me do? More of the same is not the answer. Becoming a mass shooter or doing something drastic is not the answer. Voting for politicians who eventually cave or demand favors in exchange for their vote hasn't helped. Remaining silent is definitely not the answer. So what are your ideas? What I am seeing is that y'all seem unwilling to do anything unless you can claim some legal precedent. I would also like to state that all these county commissioners either are or have lawyers working for them so to make this statement they must know more about the legalities of it than most of us. This is a solid red county so there is no need to put on a show for votes. Remember I said there is a lot of negativity out there. It's very easy to sit on the sidelines and criticize others. I'm asking in all sincerity what you think should be done? I would truly hate to see this country if we needed to wait on legal precedent to do anything.
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September 10, 2019, 08:48 AM | #20 |
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Nothing new here.
Political hacks at the state and county level pander to folks who have only a dim idea how the US government operates. Some have received prison sentences for believing that "sanctuary" actually means freedom from federal prosecution. |
September 10, 2019, 11:21 AM | #21 | |
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Sadly, I can't find the video that best demonstrates this, but I have mentioned it in other discussions here. Perhaps a year or two ago, I saw a video on Youtube of a meeting of some city council or county board at which a proposed anti-gun ordinance was being discussed. A gentleman from the audience got his turn at the public microphone and reminded the members of the legislative panel that the State (whichever state it was) had a firearms preemption law so, if they enacted the proposed law, it would be null, void, and unenforceable. This prompted one of the members of the legislative body (a male, probably in his 30s or early 40s) to make an impassioned speech to the effect that he didn't care if the law could be enforced or not, he was going to vote for it "because we've got to do something." You decide if you think that was virtue signaling, putting on a show to get votes, or just a demonstration of thinking so addled that he probably should not have been allowed to graduate high school. Whatever his thinking and his motives, the fact was that this was a legislator who was willing to go on record as voting for a law that he knew was illegal. They are out there; do not fall into the trap of thinking that "they must know more about the legalities of it than most of us." The fact is that many of us know more about laws and the Constitution than a great many of our elected [so-called] representatives.
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September 10, 2019, 05:29 PM | #22 |
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More negativity
More negative responses but no suggestions. For the third time I ask what is the answer then?
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September 10, 2019, 08:07 PM | #23 | |
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We can criticize a bad policy on its own merits. It's not a zero-sum game, and we're not required to offer up an alternative to do so.
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September 10, 2019, 09:27 PM | #24 | |
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More to the point, you wrote, "[W]hat is the answer then?" "The" is a singular modifier, implying that there is ONE answer. I respectfully submit that the problem of a violent society (meaning "violence," not limited to "gun violence") is a complex issue that does not lend itself to any single, simple answer. If there were a simple, single answer I'm sure someone would have proposed it before now. But ... there isn't a single, simple answer. My answer for the moment is that we need to put more pressure on the media and the politicians to stop harping on "gun violence" and start addressing the fact that too many people in today's world look at violence (of some kind, and definitely NOT limited to gun violence) as the first resort in any sort of dispute or disagreement.
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September 11, 2019, 05:12 AM | #25 | |||
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ETA: I'm saddened to hear that Nashville has become a sanctuary city. I lived there years ago and have very fond memories of it. With that said, I'm afraid that Little Rock is on its way to becoming a sanctuary city, as well, given our BoD/gov't composition.
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