.38 Spcl shot shell

Mike38 · July 2, 2022, 03:39 PM

I have a couple "ground goffers" that decided to make a home under the steps of my back porch. I want to get rid of them, and thought about using my .38 Special revolver with shot shells. Rather than buy factory at $2 a pop, I might try reloading as I have all the components on hand. I will make shot cards out of cardboard. But my question is, since there will be no lubrication between the lead shot and the bore, will I get excessive leading? Or will only a few shots be ok? Thanks.

gwpercle · July 2, 2022, 04:09 PM

Not enough leading to be concerned about ...Here is a trick you can do that helps ...
Use a standard gas check on top of your over powder card ... seat the gas check with a pencil down lightly on the powder,(cup up ) fill the shell with shot and jiggle it to get as many shot in as possible ... most people use another gas check as the over shot card ( cup down) and roll crimp lightly over the gas check making a nice tightly sealed round .
True this does use two gas checks ... you could eliminate the top check and use a cardboard over shot wad glued in place ... but the bottom check keeps the burning powder from the shot and acts to stop any leading ... I would advise at least using the the over powder gas check .
Gary

Scorch · July 2, 2022, 04:15 PM

Not exactly sure what a "ground goffer" is, but I played around with shotshell loads a bit years ago. Loaded with 7-1/2 shot, a 38 shotshell will things like rabbits pretty reliably if you get close enough (like less than 25 feet). Patterns open up really quickly, so don't try any 50 foot shots, you may or may not hit them due to pattern dispersion.

Or just take a 22 pistol out there and cap 'em.

Mike38 · July 2, 2022, 06:24 PM

My brain is not working today. Gopher? Ground Gopher. Some people call them Pocket Gophers.

**44 AMP** · July 2, 2022, 09:19 PM

Other people call them ground squirrels or sage rats. (those are the small, rodents, larger than mice, but not actual gophers, or squirrels or rats)

SPEER/CCI used to sell the plastic shot cups they use for their loaded pistol shotshells. Since they were a bit of a specialty item, demand wasn't super high, and even if they're discontinued currently, you might be able to find some still in the supply chain. One purchase would give you enough for some testing and leave you with enough to create anti-pest rounds for a long time.

If you have a .22, the .22 shot shells will do for small under the porch rodents.

so will a good pellet gun, a hungry cat and some breeds of dogs. Traps and poison also work but aren't as much fun.

jetinteriorguy · July 3, 2022, 07:46 AM

In ND we had regular gophers and smaller ones with stripes, which we obviously referred to as striped gophers. Not sure how they related species wise since you would often see both types in the same areas. The interesting thing is, neither are actually gophers, but are ground squirrels.

**Unclenick** · July 3, 2022, 08:11 AM

I still see the Speer shot capsules on their site so I originally said they are there. Then I noticed they are labeled "currently unavailable". Sounds like they intend to offer them again. Midway and Midsouth both just say "out of stock".

I imagine that with the right-sized mandrel you could make your own from heat shrink tubing and close the shrunk ends with hotmelt glue. But you would need to make the tool, first.

Mike38 · July 5, 2022, 05:20 PM

Well, I loaded 12 pcs of .38 Spcl shot shells last night. I used a case to punch out some cards from an empty primer envelop. One on top of the powder, one on top of the shot. I cannibalized shot from some 25 year old 20 gauge shells, 7.5 shot. Medium crimp. Then put two drops of Lee Liquid Alox on the top of the finished cartridge to help seal it up and maybe give the bore a coating to help with leading. Going to try them this weekend.

**44 AMP** · July 5, 2022, 11:51 PM

Did you, by any chance weigh the shot charge. Its going to be lighter than a bullet taking up the same amount of space.

Might make a difference with what powder charge would be best.

Nathan · July 6, 2022, 08:52 AM

I’m kind of thick skulled here, but I want to try this.

So you take a 38 spcl case size and prime as normal.

Charge with what powder? About how much? Any filler needed?

Then put an over powder card. Then fill with shot. Then apply another card over shot, then roll crimp, then apply alox. How much did the shot weigh?

**Unclenick** · July 6, 2022, 10:20 AM

It's pretty much like loading a flyweight wadcutter. Speer says its capsule full of shot weighs 109 grains. They list:

Unique 5.5 grains
700-X 4.5 grains
HP38/231 4.5 grains
Bullseye 4.5 grains

Mike38 · July 6, 2022, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Did you, by any chance weigh the shot charge.

No, I did not. Wish I would have though.

Quote:

So you take a 38 spcl case size and prime as normal.

Charge with what powder? About how much? Any filler needed?

Then put an over powder card. Then fill with shot. Then apply another card over shot, then roll crimp, then apply alox.

You got it! I used Titegroup powder, 3.5 grains which is the same charge I load a bunch of other bullet projectile calibers such as .38 Spcl, 9mm, and .45acp.

If I'm doing the math right, the cannibalized 20 gauge loads I used were 3/4 oz loads, and it took 3.5 shells to do 12 shotshell loads. So 2.625 oz of shot for 12 loadings, which would be roughly 95 grains per loading. Yes, much lighter than any bullet, but there is zero "air space" between the powder and the over powder card.

Kaboom? I hope not!

Mike38 · July 6, 2022, 07:13 PM

I forgot to add this Youtube video. I loaded pretty much like this guy, but he used 4.5 grains of Titegroup and I'm using 3.5 grains.

https://youtu.be/70fm5wRKRyA

Mike38 · July 10, 2022, 01:38 AM

I got to test fire my home rolled .38 Spcl shot shells tonight. Very little recoil with 3.5 grains of Titegroup. Next go-a-round will be with 4.0 grains of powder. Also, they smoked almost as bad a black powder. Not sure why, could be the Alox I used to seal the over shot card, or could be unburnt powder from the light loadings. Patterned at 10 and 15 feet. The 10 foot pattern was good enough to take care of any small varmint such as a snake or small gopher. the 15 foot pattern opened up, but still could be enough. I'll try and attach the targets to show patterns.

**44 AMP** · July 10, 2022, 11:43 AM

Aside from the pattern spread, you also need to look at the penetration.

Use a regular cardboard box (the double wall kind) and an empty soda can.

If pellets go through the box wall they will take out small pests. If they punch into the can they can also injure larger animals (possibly but not reliably killing them). If they go through both sides, they can kill larger animals (including smaller dogs) at that range.

July 2, 2022, 03:39 PM	#1
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	.38 Spcl shot shell I have a couple "ground goffers" that decided to make a home under the steps of my back porch. I want to get rid of them, and thought about using my .38 Special revolver with shot shells. Rather than buy factory at $2 a pop, I might try reloading as I have all the components on hand. I will make shot cards out of cardboard. But my question is, since there will be no lubrication between the lead shot and the bore, will I get excessive leading? Or will only a few shots be ok? Thanks.

July 2, 2022, 04:15 PM	#3
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Not exactly sure what a "ground goffer" is, but I played around with shotshell loads a bit years ago. Loaded with 7-1/2 shot, a 38 shotshell will things like rabbits pretty reliably if you get close enough (like less than 25 feet). Patterns open up really quickly, so don't try any 50 foot shots, you may or may not hit them due to pattern dispersion. Or just take a 22 pistol out there and cap 'em. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

July 2, 2022, 09:19 PM	#5
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,850	Other people call them ground squirrels or sage rats. (those are the small, rodents, larger than mice, but not actual gophers, or squirrels or rats) SPEER/CCI used to sell the plastic shot cups they use for their loaded pistol shotshells. Since they were a bit of a specialty item, demand wasn't super high, and even if they're discontinued currently, you might be able to find some still in the supply chain. One purchase would give you enough for some testing and leave you with enough to create anti-pest rounds for a long time. If you have a .22, the .22 shot shells will do for small under the porch rodents. so will a good pellet gun, a hungry cat and some breeds of dogs. Traps and poison also work but aren't as much fun. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 3, 2022, 07:46 AM	#6
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,176	In ND we had regular gophers and smaller ones with stripes, which we obviously referred to as striped gophers. Not sure how they related species wise since you would often see both types in the same areas. The interesting thing is, neither are actually gophers, but are ground squirrels. Last edited by jetinteriorguy; July 3, 2022 at 07:53 AM.

July 3, 2022, 08:11 AM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I still see the Speer shot capsules on their site so I originally said they are there. Then I noticed they are labeled "currently unavailable". Sounds like they intend to offer them again. Midway and Midsouth both just say "out of stock". I imagine that with the right-sized mandrel you could make your own from heat shrink tubing and close the shrunk ends with hotmelt glue. But you would need to make the tool, first. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 2, 2022, 04:09 PM	#2
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	Not enough leading to be concerned about ...Here is a trick you can do that helps ... Use a standard gas check on top of your over powder card ... seat the gas check with a pencil down lightly on the powder,(cup up ) fill the shell with shot and jiggle it to get as many shot in as possible ... most people use another gas check as the over shot card ( cup down) and roll crimp lightly over the gas check making a nice tightly sealed round . True this does use two gas checks ... you could eliminate the top check and use a cardboard over shot wad glued in place ... but the bottom check keeps the burning powder from the shot and acts to stop any leading ... I would advise at least using the the over powder gas check . Gary

July 2, 2022, 06:24 PM	#4
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	My brain is not working today. Gopher? Ground Gopher. Some people call them Pocket Gophers.

July 5, 2022, 05:20 PM	#8
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	Well, I loaded 12 pcs of .38 Spcl shot shells last night. I used a case to punch out some cards from an empty primer envelop. One on top of the powder, one on top of the shot. I cannibalized shot from some 25 year old 20 gauge shells, 7.5 shot. Medium crimp. Then put two drops of Lee Liquid Alox on the top of the finished cartridge to help seal it up and maybe give the bore a coating to help with leading. Going to try them this weekend.

July 5, 2022, 11:51 PM	#9
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,850	Did you, by any chance weigh the shot charge. Its going to be lighter than a bullet taking up the same amount of space. Might make a difference with what powder charge would be best. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 6, 2022, 08:52 AM	#10
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,333	I’m kind of thick skulled here, but I want to try this. So you take a 38 spcl case size and prime as normal. Charge with what powder? About how much? Any filler needed? Then put an over powder card. Then fill with shot. Then apply another card over shot, then roll crimp, then apply alox. How much did the shot weigh?

July 6, 2022, 10:20 AM	#11
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	It's pretty much like loading a flyweight wadcutter. Speer says its capsule full of shot weighs 109 grains. They list: Unique 5.5 grains 700-X 4.5 grains HP38/231 4.5 grains Bullseye 4.5 grains __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 6, 2022, 07:13 PM	#13
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	I forgot to add this Youtube video. I loaded pretty much like this guy, but he used 4.5 grains of Titegroup and I'm using 3.5 grains. https://youtu.be/70fm5wRKRyA

July 10, 2022, 11:43 AM	#15
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,850	Aside from the pattern spread, you also need to look at the penetration. Use a regular cardboard box (the double wall kind) and an empty soda can. If pellets go through the box wall they will take out small pests. If they punch into the can they can also injure larger animals (possibly but not reliably killing them). If they go through both sides, they can kill larger animals (including smaller dogs) at that range. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.