Yellow powder on primers.

[4T4MAG]

I was lucky to find a 1000 large mag. match primers which I will use in my .44mag. When I opened the box, on a few primers there is a very light yellow dust, they do not look all shiney like other primers of the same kind that I have used in the past. Is this any reason to be concerned about the dust? Also, what is the actuall difference in a match primer Vs. non match primer?

Thank you.

[Doby45]

Well if you are anywhere near the state of Georgia, that stuff is called pollen and it gets on EVERYTHING.

[a7mmnut]

"Match" = light, consistent burn rate. Not for big cases, IMO.

-7-

[Mike Irwin]

OK, be VERY careful.

That yellow dust could be dust from the priming compound itself, and it's quite explosive.

Not really a big concern with the little bit of dust that normally accumulates, but it DOES have the potential to set off a primer, or even primers.

My suggestion would be to use something like a swiffer to remove as much of it as you can.

After reloading, wash your priming tools in warm soapy water (you should be doing that occasionally anyway).

[Doodlebugger45]

Relax. It's probably only anthrax spores. Nothing for a reloader to worry about.

[Shoney]

The primer explosive compound is primarily Lead Stypnate mixed with other secondary exoplosives for the desired brisance (strength).

Lead styphnate varies in color from yellow to brown.

[hoppes-no9]

Swine Flu

[snuffy]

That's certainly NOT primer compound you see on those primers. The primer pellet is sealed under a lacquer type of sealant. This myth of "primer dust" is manufactured from paranoia, simple fear of things that are made to explode.

Take a look at this thread I started over on the glock post forum. I was trying to coax some "primer dust" from several different types of primers.

http://www.glockpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6686

That test I did was instigated by this thread, also on glock post.

http://www.glockpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6646

One poster, mongollon,(who works at dillon), said there's a tiny amount seen in a vibratory primer tube filler after 5,000 primers have passed through it. So how can one individual box have that much dust on it? Answer, it's not primer dust!

[Mike Irwin]

"The primer pellet is sealed under a lacquer type of sealant."

Wow.

You don't reload much, do you?

You're honestly telling me that you have never seen primers:

A) Without lacquer sealant (missed in manufacturing, more common than you would think)

B) With incomplete lacquer sealant.

C) With breached lacquer sealant, compliments of bad handling by equipment, rough shipping, etc.

Of course, that's ALL myth, which is why Alliant Techsystems has this to say in its material safety data sheet on its Federal Primers:

"Primers may "dust." Small particles of priming compound may separate from the primers in the form of dust, especially when they are subject to shaking or jolting. Accumulation of this dust in loading machines and loading areas is [b]extremely hazardous[/b." (emphasis added).

That's the warning from page 4 here: http://www.federalpremium.com/pdf/ms...ms_Primers.pdf


Of course, Alliant Techsystems/Federal Cartridge Company doesn't know squat about this, they're just a bunch of namby pamby cowardly sissy girls who make, sell, and ship billions of primers every year.

Lord knows that your attempts to coax some dust from some primers is an exhaustive test that invalidates all of Federal's warnings.


Now... did I SAY that it was primer dust?

No.

I said it should be handled carefully as if it MIGHT be primer dust.

I agree that it probably is not primer dust, but to categorically say it's not primer dust (especially given the fact that its ON the primers, not on the exterior of the box/packaging) and claim that it's paranoia when you yourself have NOT examined the package in, and because your limited attempts to coax primer dust from a primer have only reinforced your own prejudices without providing anything even remotely resembling useful information?

That's simply foolish.

In fact, that's the same sort of "logic train" that gets people injured/killed when they look at a gun, don't examine the gun, but jump to the conclusion "Hey, it's not loaded, I can do whatever I want with it and no one will be hurt!"

Bang.


So, without examining the packaging, without seeing what's actually going on, and based on your vast knowledge that completely invalidates Alliant MSDS, tell us what the yellowish dust on these primers is.

Pollen? I know pollen is pretty insidious stuff, I suffer with it every year, but somehow I doubt that Alliant has a pollen producing tree, like an oak, growing in its production area.

Yellowcake uranium concentrate? Whoa, you mean North Korea/Iran is now running Alliant? They certainly pulled off that deal quietly!

Magical Pixie Dust? I bet that's it! It's a well-known fact that pixies, sprites, elves, and faeries are naturally attracted to primer manufacturers. So, maybe the OP can click his heels together three times and make a wish that would get primers back on the shelves and dropped in price by half.

[snuffy]

Wow, I've been properly chastised by the infamous Mike Irwin! 19,000+ posts, and staff to boot. I guess I'd better shut up. I'll go get some of my federal primers, run my test again. Since they warn about possible dust from their primers, I bet some will show up.

As for how much I load, or have loaded, I've been at it since 1963. Not full time mind you, took 4 years out to serve in the AF. In ALL that time, I have yet to see the first sign of ANY primer dust in ANY of my loading machines. THAT is personal experience!

The OP doesn't state which brand the primers with the yellow dust on them were. From the Alliant warning, they must be federals. Maybe THAT'S why Mr. Lee says to not use federal primers in his priming tools!??¿

Now, IF we were to be able to find some primer dust, from the pellet that actually explodes when crushed between the anvil and cap, would it be dangerous? Again if we could accumulate enough of it, how would we set it off? It would surely burn fast, but I'm not a smoker, and I certainly don't have open flames around my loading room. If I ever do see some primer dust, I'll wipe it up with the alcohol swab recommended by mongollon in my thread over at glock post.

No, I didn't personally see the box of primers in question. Neither did you.

I ran into one bad primer last year while flipping 100 to load a primer tube on my dillon 650. It was winchester small rifle IIRC. A quick glance showed one that looked different. Closer examination revealed the anvil was put in sideways! It would have never fired! I look at all the primers I load. I've never seen missing sealant, since it's color coded, if it were missing it would be real easy to see.

[Shoney]

WOW!!! The immovable object meets the impregnable force. I’m gonna grab my popcorn and M&M’s, sit back and watch the fur fly!

GOOOOooooOOOOd Stuff!

[45Marlin carbine]

of all the rounds I've loaded useing 90% CCI and Win primers I've had 2 duds - CCI lr both in the same tray.

[Mike Irwin]

No more fur is going to fly.

As far as I'm concerned, manufacturers know their products better than anyone else.

To willfully ignore or disregard a manufacturer's warning isn't intelligent.

We all laugh about the "Do not use your new toaster in a swimming pool or shower" type warnings that are found on some products. But, you have to wonder just how those warnings became necessary in the first place; often it's because some lackwit decided he just had to have a bagel while recreating in the pool.

Its sort of like the warnings on powder cans -- don't smoke while using this product.

You'd think it would be obvious...


But, I apologize for the extremely harsh and sarcastic tone of my message to Snuffy. I shouldn't post first thing after getting out of bed in the morning.

That said, I stand by my, and Alliant Techsystem's, warnings about the potential danger of primer dust accumulation.

[Gazzmann]

Maybe its magic dust?

[snuffy]

But, I apologize for the extremely harsh and sarcastic tone of my message to Snuffy. I shouldn't post first thing after getting out of bed in the morning.

Same here, but I rise much later than most 3:30-12:00 makes a late riser out of ya. My apologies as well, Mike.

I'm not a fearful person. If something don't make sense, I discount it until further evidence shows me different.

I'm going to error on the side of caution, run some alcohol swabs through the primer tubes for my dillon. Just in case! Even though I think there's no chance that enough primer dust accumulates to do any harm. I'll let everybody know what I find.

[4T4MAG]

I tried my best to take a picture of the primer with the yellow powder on it. I took the pict. next to a primer without any powder on it. Like I say, I am a rookie reloader and have never ran into this issue before. I had one suggestion: very lightly swab with alcohol. Any thoughts? Normally I would chuck the primers, being that they are so hard to find I am trying hard to learn if there is a problem. I have never had a primer fail in the past. I am using them in my Super Blackhawk .44 mag. Could there potentially be any damage to my revolver if one of these primers fail?

[bfoosh006]

Ok, so just what brand are they?
How old are these?
Were you the first person to open this box?
Does every "sleeve" have some like the photo?

I have to admit, in my 20+ years of reloading, I've never seen that !

Based on the image alone, I would not feel comfortable firing those. If they are "Federal" (or whomevers) Primers, I would send them an e-mail asking if you should be concerned. Attach the photo with the e-mail.

And, please keep us posted....I'm very curious



Ooops, and Yes you could damage your BlackHawk

[Shoney]

After viewing those photos, I would think that the yellow stuff is a Lead Stypnate mix

Many years ago I got to watch how primers were made. The plate that primers are made in is (I’m guessing here) 3 feet by 3 feet, and has maybe 200 by 200 holes. The cups are inserted into the holes and are flush with the plated. The "wet" primer explosive mix is hand mashed into the cups with a (for lack of a better term) board 18" to 24" long and 2.5" to 3" wide.

It would appear to me that somehow the cups were either loose or crooked or undersized, and the compound was pressed along side and under the cup. Also, the cups may have not been in place at all, and the holes were filled such that the next set of cups squished down into the mash, leaving the finished primes as seen in the photo.

[Death from Afar]

Can I just say that, as always reloading components are cheap and eyes and guns are not. Any doubt woth components and biff them. I may be a bit to0 ocareful, but I once was given a jar (!!) with around 1000 large primers in it. When i opened the box they were in i saw that there was a thin yellow layert on everything. I called a mate in the bomb squad who advised me to pour water onto the things while wearing eye and hand protection. Thats pretty sound advice...........

[Magnum Wheel Man]

shooting sports manufacturers are running absolutely as hard as they can run... probably with several new personel, & with as little shutdown time as possible...

the incidence of defect has to be higher than in "normal" times...

if you can't do without the primers, I guess I'd inspect for anything unusual ( maybe the box, a tray, or all of the primers were not properly sealed... if they appear normal ( other than the dust ), I guess ( again, if you can't do with out them ) I'd clean up a couple & try a few, maybe the powder was spilled somehow on the packaging, or drifted during sloppy manufacturing, over to the trays of yet unboxed primers ???... if things worked out OK, I'd go from there...

if you do not absolutely need them right away, contacting the manufacturer, & including the picture is definately the best bet...

[4T4MAG]

They are Federal Large MAgnum Pistol Match Primers. GM155M. As far as I can tell I am the first person to open the box.

[Mike Irwin]

I said it before in this thread, and now that I've seen that picture I'll say it again, I think that is priming compound.

I have, however, never seen it caked on primers like that.


My suggestion?

Do NOT use these primers. Get in touch with the manufacturer and send them your photo for them to look at. Let them determine what this might be.

[snuffy]

I will revise what I said before, I too think that somehow the priming compound has gotten all over the outside of the cups. And there's enough of it to possibly explode when the primer is fired. I sure would contact Federal via email with a link to your pic, or print a photo and send it via snail mail. They might want to see the primers themselves, they could arrange a has-mat pickup so you could send them back.

In the mean time, be real careful that those don't get struck hard or dropped. Not sure how much damage could be caused, but having a chain reaction of 1000 primers going off, would not be my idea of fun!

[Mike Irwin]

"And there's enough of it to possibly explode when the primer is fired."

I'd be more worried about what would happen if trying to run those through a priming mechanism or insert them into the case.

I'd think that with that much compound, the tight tolerances in most priming mechanisms, and not to mention the friction of the primer being inserted into the case, there would be a VERY high likelihood of the compound being set off.

That could cause a sympathetic detonation of all of the other primers in the priming aparatus.

Most new presses that use tube feeds have blast tubes, but many older ones don't.

Many years ago I knew a guy (he came in to teach at our hunter safety class) at my sportsmen's club who was almost killed by a primer tube explosion. He lost an eye, a couple of teeth, was partially deafened, had severe lacerations around his face from flying debris and had a lot of primers embedded in his head, neck, and chest.


Push Federal on this. If there's one box out there, there could be others. And if that is live priming compound, it could be very dangerous for a newbie reloader and possibly financially hazardous for Federal.

[CortJestir]

Push Federal on this. If there's one box out there, there could be others. And if that is live priming compound, it could be very dangerous for a newbie reloader and possibly financially hazardous for Federal.

Agreed. Federal needs to know about this.