Colt 2nd generation - Page 2

Wobble · May 28, 2009, 12:46 PM

Captain, thanks for the effort and the very enligntening information but I'm not sure I understand what it means in terms of the BP guns available to us today -- secondary-market 2nd and 3rd Gens, and Italian replicas. Should I throw away my POS NIB 3rd Gens I recently bought? And all my Uberti's? I love them all, regardless of where the parts came from.

CaptainCrossman · May 28, 2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Captain, thanks for the effort and the very enligntening information but I'm not sure I understand what it means in terms of the BP guns available to us today -- secondary-market 2nd and 3rd Gens, and Italian replicas. Should I throw away my POS NIB 3rd Gens I recently bought? And all my Uberti's? I love them all, regardless of where the parts came from.

This info is only to help the OP, and get the information out there- you do as you please, or what suits your tastes and budget.

I'm selling off my Colt open top Italian replicas, with cast frames. The 1860 Army is already sold, the Walker goes tomorrow. No more for me. I'll keep the 1851, 'cuz my dad bought it for me, he passed away in 1998. I'd like to get a Colt 1st Gen or 2nd Gen gun- and preferably a 1st Gen. I'd avoid the 3rd Gen., the experts spoke somewhat spotty about them. I'll keep my 2 Remington imports, because they are topstrap designs and strong guns, and have proven it with full chambers fired repeatedly, one has lasted 22 years. If I buy any more Italian open top Colt patterns, they will be the forged frame Ubertis. I believe Uberti went to the forged frame, to give the market a shot in the arm. There was definitely a quality issue, that needed to be addressed.

Fingers McGee · May 28, 2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

This message is hidden because CaptainCrossman is on your ignore list.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Quote:

Captain, thanks for the effort and the very enligntening information but I'm not sure I understand what it means in terms of the BP guns available to us today -- secondary-market 2nd and 3rd Gens, and Italian replicas. Should I throw away my POS NIB 3rd Gens I recently bought? And all my Uberti's? I love them all, regardless of where the parts came from.

Wobble.

Buy, collect, and shoot what ever appeals to you, regardless of where, when or who it was made by. And regardless of what anyone else thinks.

I think I'll gou out and buy a couple Brass, ASM .44 cal '51 Navies just to aggravate a few people.

Oldfalguy · May 28, 2009, 09:23 PM

Excellent bit of information gathering-

Just for my own edification when was the
1st generation Colt produced ?
2nd " " ?
3rd " " ?

Without knowing it would seem a 1st generation would be an original wouldn't it? Now that would be rather spendy!!!!!!!!

My Uberti 1860 must be at least 25-30 years old and probably only fired a dozen times. Am getting it tuned, fire blued and parts hardened now- no telling when it will be finished.
Might look into finding a Colt 2nd gen sometime in the future-

Mark

mykeal · May 28, 2009, 10:16 PM

The so-called '1st Generation' Colts are the originals, and you need to specify model to determine years of manufacture.

2nd Generation Colts were produced from 1971 to 1982.

3rd Generation Colts were produced from 1994 to 2002.

CaptainCrossman · May 29, 2009, 07:04 AM

The author of "2nd gen price guide" stated, the 3rd gen Colts were a license only deal- they didn't go through the rigorous Colt QC inspection, that the 2nd Gen Colts had to meet. The bottom line is, the 3rd is not as desireable. The author shoots an 1860 2nd Gen, for the past 30 years, and stated to me on the phone yesterday- the barrel/cylinder/wedge interface is just as tight, as the day he bought it.

Now that's impressive.

When the subject of brass frames came up, both Colt employee and author stated "you don't want to buy brass frame guns"- the Colt employee also had a few choice adjectives that I can't repost here, if you get my drift- both stated in their experience, the brass frames can shoot apart/loose in as few as 20 rounds.

an older fella who's buying my Walker, and has been shooting BP for 40 years now, stated he also had bad experiences with brass frame Remingtons- he said after about 100-150 shots, the frames would stretch and the gun would start malfunctioning, due to cylinder pin misalignment

CaptainCrossman · May 29, 2009, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Quote:
This message is hidden because CaptainCrossman is on your ignore list.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Quote:
FCaptain, thanks for the effort and the very enligntening information but I'm not sure I understand what it means in terms of the BP guns available to us today -- secondary-market 2nd and 3rd Gens, and Italian replicas. Should I throw away my POS NIB 3rd Gens I recently bought? And all my Uberti's? I love them all, regardless of where the parts came from.
Wobble.
Buy, collect, and shoot what ever appeals to you, regardless of where, when or who it was made by. And regardless of what anyone else thinks.
I think I'll gou out and buy a couple Brass, ASM .44 cal '51 Navies just to aggravate a few people.

Wobble,

Fingers conveniently leaves out a few very important facts- his recommendation assumes a brass frame or soft steel frame gun, is going to shoot forever and never break. The fact is, a cheap gun with inferior metallurgy, doesn't last- they do break- quickly.

Ask Fingers if he'll fix these brass frame guns he's telling you to buy, for free, when they break- parts and labor, free shipping too.

Then ask him how much powder he puts in his "brassers". They can only handle 60% maximum loads- not exactly a great personal protection/hunting load. For that, you need full chambers.

The main reason arms mfrs. use improved materials/processes, it to make a stronger, more durable product- that lasts generations. For some reason Fingers doesn't get that.

I'm not the one blocking posts- so who's really aggravated ? The test of a real man, is being able to keep your composure, when another man confronts you, and disagrees with you. Pressure makes diamonds.

This is a technical discussion, we need to rely on facts, not emotions of what we "like". That's why I contacted Henry Arms, Colt, etc.- we need the facts, straight from the source.

Fingers recommendations on gun options, are akin to telling you, buy a Yugo or Vega if you like it- they start and go, how bad can they be ??...

I'm saying no, don't do that, they are junk and you'll regret it, they have a terrible service history record. They are a lemon.

Buy the best you can afford, not the worst- and do the research first. Then you'll have a gun that lasts for generations. Not a paperweight.

I just bought an 1860 stainless Army for $300. Fingers has my blessings, to buy up all the "1851 brassers" he can afford.

crstrode · May 29, 2009, 09:59 AM

Crazy Captain wrote:

Quote:

the Colt Factory called me today.

What a load!

madcratebuilder · May 29, 2009, 12:20 PM

Crazy Captain, stop with the personal e-mails. I really don't care to argue who owned what when. I find it nessacary to apply my standard disclaimer.

Standard Disclaimer:
All answers are given assuming that the person giving the answer understood the question to begin with, which is a dubious prospect at best. In addition to knowing what you thought you asked, you now have the added responsibility of figuring out what you thought I said in this response. Keep in mind, this may or may not be what I thought I said, which I only have a fairly good clue of on a good day anyway.
All answers shown were prepared by a trained professional on a closed course. You should not attempt to give answers at home,
Incorrect answers can cause side effects. Side effects include nausea, shortness of breath, palpitations, headache, dry mouth, bloating and/or gas with oily discharge, increased bowel movements and the inability to control them. Erections lasting more than 4 hours are not normal, but they are a nice bonus and there is no extra charge, so be sure to call all your friends and brag. Side effects occurred in 1% of test subjects. If 99 of your friends feel fine, you are the one percent.
Answers can become habit forming and should only be used while under the care of a medical professional or answer abuse specialist.
Portions of this answer not affecting the final outcome have been edited.
Not available in all states. Void where prohibited. Batteries not included. Not drawn to scale

Fingers McGee · May 29, 2009, 12:51 PM

Quote MCB

Quote:

Crazy Captain, stop with the personal e-mails. I really don't care to argue who owned what when. I find it nessacary to apply my standard disclaimer.

MCB.

Great disclaimer. Can I plagiarize it???

I've found bliss in the ignore button. Helps keep the blood pressure down and doesnt aggravate the carpal tunnel due to much reduced keystokes in not formulating replies.

CaptainCrossman · May 29, 2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Crazy Captain wrote:
Quote:
the Colt Factory called me today.
What a load!

Colt Blackpowder rep called me, and then referred me to the author Dennis Russell- who wrote 2nd Gen Price Guide/history

if you don't believe me, contact Mr. Russell

CaptainCrossman · May 29, 2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Quote MCB
Quote:
Crazy Captain, stop with the personal e-mails. I really don't care to argue who owned what when. I find it nessacary to apply my standard disclaimer.
MCB. Great disclaimer. Can I plagiarize it???
I've found bliss in the ignore button. Helps keep the blood pressure down and doesnt aggravate the carpal tunnel due to much reduced keystokes in not formulating replies.

"nessacary" ?

I pulled this up to quote, the Firing Line forum spell checker went berserk, and started smoking...

yes, by all means, we'll take this above post/advice seriously, rather than Anthony Imperato, Val Forgett III, Dennis Russell, or Colt Blackpowder Rep.- any day...

after all, they only MADE the guns, and compiled the documentation...

you actually...did...uh...er...wait a minute...nothing ?? well, you fellas "learned" them a thing or two anyway, didntcha.. (laughter...)

NOT !!!

crstrode · May 29, 2009, 02:13 PM

Crazy Captain wriote:

Quote:

Colt Blackpowder rep called me

What is the name of the "Blackpowder Rep."?

Another 40 grain load of BS

Wobble · May 29, 2009, 02:16 PM

Captain, not sure where the dissertation on brass guns came from but I have no brass guns, don't want any, and will never buy one. I think Fingers was making a little joke.

In a review of my copy of "Colt Blackpowder Reproductions and Replicas" by Dennis Adler, there are no 2nd Gen or 3rd Gen BP Colts with brass frames unless they were 3rd Gens manufactured between 1995 and 2002, which are not covered by the book. My own 3rd Gens are steel. I also don't think Uberti currently makes any brass frame guns either, although some other Italian companies do. Some, however, are true reproductions of Confederate copies originally made with brass.

Hawg · May 29, 2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Captain, not sure where the dissertation on brass guns came from but I have no brass guns, don't want any, and will never buy one. I think Fingers was making a little joke.

In a review of my copy of "Colt Blackpowder Reproductions and Replicas" by Dennis Adler, there are no 2nd Gen or 3rd Gen BP Colts with brass frames unless they were 3rd Gens manufactured between 1995 and 2002, which are not covered by the book. My own 3rd Gens are steel. I also don't think Uberti currently makes any brass frame guns either, although some other Italian companies do. Some, however, are true reproductions of Confederate copies originally made with brass.

Dunno what drivel the Capt. is spoutin now but Colt didn't make any brass frames. Brass frames are fine if you know their limitations. A .36 in a brass frame will handle max loads fine but a .44 in a brass frame won't. Probably one reason .44's were never offered in a brass frame.

madcratebuilder · May 29, 2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

MCB. Great disclaimer. Can I plagiarize it???

Why certainly..... I did. I ran across it a few years ago and saved it for a special occasion.

Quote:

I've found bliss in the ignore button. Helps keep the blood pressure down and doesnt aggravate the carpal tunnel due to much reduced keystokes in not formulating replies.

I did that, but now I'm getting e-mails at my personal address.

Noz · May 29, 2009, 04:19 PM

Are there no moderators on this forum?

This has gotten way out of hand.

I'd like to see this thread closed.

Oh and where is the ignore button?

Fingers McGee · May 29, 2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

I think Fingers was making a little joke.

I guess I wasn't obvious enough

.

Quote:

I did that, but now I'm getting e-mails at my personal address

not cool.

Hawg · May 29, 2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

I did that, but now I'm getting e-mails at my personal address.

Yeah, I had to block him there too.

Quote:

Oh and where is the ignore button?

Open his profile, click on user list and you'll be given the option to ignore.

**4V50 Gary** · May 29, 2009, 06:26 PM

Back off everyone. This is getting too personal.

May 28, 2009, 12:46 PM	#26
Wobble Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Georgia USA Posts: 163	Captain, thanks for the effort and the very enligntening information but I'm not sure I understand what it means in terms of the BP guns available to us today -- secondary-market 2nd and 3rd Gens, and Italian replicas. Should I throw away my POS NIB 3rd Gens I recently bought? And all my Uberti's? I love them all, regardless of where the parts came from. Last edited by Wobble; May 28, 2009 at 12:58 PM.

May 28, 2009, 09:23 PM	#29
Oldfalguy Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 126	One of those dumb questions Excellent bit of information gathering- Just for my own edification when was the 1st generation Colt produced ? 2nd " " ? 3rd " " ? Without knowing it would seem a 1st generation would be an original wouldn't it? Now that would be rather spendy!!!!!!!! My Uberti 1860 must be at least 25-30 years old and probably only fired a dozen times. Am getting it tuned, fire blued and parts hardened now- no telling when it will be finished. Might look into finding a Colt 2nd gen sometime in the future- Mark

May 29, 2009, 06:26 PM	#45
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,855	Back off everyone. This is getting too personal. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

May 28, 2009, 10:16 PM	#30
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	The so-called '1st Generation' Colts are the originals, and you need to specify model to determine years of manufacture. 2nd Generation Colts were produced from 1971 to 1982. 3rd Generation Colts were produced from 1994 to 2002.

May 29, 2009, 07:04 AM	#31
CaptainCrossman Junior member Join Date: April 2, 2009 Posts: 381	The author of "2nd gen price guide" stated, the 3rd gen Colts were a license only deal- they didn't go through the rigorous Colt QC inspection, that the 2nd Gen Colts had to meet. The bottom line is, the 3rd is not as desireable. The author shoots an 1860 2nd Gen, for the past 30 years, and stated to me on the phone yesterday- the barrel/cylinder/wedge interface is just as tight, as the day he bought it. Now that's impressive. When the subject of brass frames came up, both Colt employee and author stated "you don't want to buy brass frame guns"- the Colt employee also had a few choice adjectives that I can't repost here, if you get my drift- both stated in their experience, the brass frames can shoot apart/loose in as few as 20 rounds. an older fella who's buying my Walker, and has been shooting BP for 40 years now, stated he also had bad experiences with brass frame Remingtons- he said after about 100-150 shots, the frames would stretch and the gun would start malfunctioning, due to cylinder pin misalignment

May 29, 2009, 12:20 PM	#34
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	Crazy Captain, stop with the personal e-mails. I really don't care to argue who owned what when. I find it nessacary to apply my standard disclaimer. Standard Disclaimer: All answers are given assuming that the person giving the answer understood the question to begin with, which is a dubious prospect at best. In addition to knowing what you thought you asked, you now have the added responsibility of figuring out what you thought I said in this response. Keep in mind, this may or may not be what I thought I said, which I only have a fairly good clue of on a good day anyway. All answers shown were prepared by a trained professional on a closed course. You should not attempt to give answers at home, Incorrect answers can cause side effects. Side effects include nausea, shortness of breath, palpitations, headache, dry mouth, bloating and/or gas with oily discharge, increased bowel movements and the inability to control them. Erections lasting more than 4 hours are not normal, but they are a nice bonus and there is no extra charge, so be sure to call all your friends and brag. Side effects occurred in 1% of test subjects. If 99 of your friends feel fine, you are the one percent. Answers can become habit forming and should only be used while under the care of a medical professional or answer abuse specialist. Portions of this answer not affecting the final outcome have been edited. Not available in all states. Void where prohibited. Batteries not included. Not drawn to scale

May 29, 2009, 02:16 PM	#39
Wobble Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Georgia USA Posts: 163	Captain, not sure where the dissertation on brass guns came from but I have no brass guns, don't want any, and will never buy one. I think Fingers was making a little joke. In a review of my copy of "Colt Blackpowder Reproductions and Replicas" by Dennis Adler, there are no 2nd Gen or 3rd Gen BP Colts with brass frames unless they were 3rd Gens manufactured between 1995 and 2002, which are not covered by the book. My own 3rd Gens are steel. I also don't think Uberti currently makes any brass frame guns either, although some other Italian companies do. Some, however, are true reproductions of Confederate copies originally made with brass.

May 29, 2009, 04:19 PM	#42
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	Are there no moderators on this forum? This has gotten way out of hand. I'd like to see this thread closed. Oh and where is the ignore button?