ZAMAC gun slides - Page 2

magnut · November 14, 2018, 06:38 PM

its all about how well they are designed. Ravens have zamak slides and hold up well...very well. Meanwhile something like a walther p22 zamak slide crack commonly.

Thin areas.....bad. Thick....good.

Lower calibers 22,25,32 typically good.....380s.....sometimes ok. Anything 9mm and above needs to be a high point because you need weight and overall mass for strength.

I have lots of zamak guns. I know most of these designs strengths and weaknesses. People would be surprised how good some of these little guns can be.

Targa · November 14, 2018, 06:58 PM

I have a Phoenix Arms HP-22, it only has a 1000 rounds through it so far but no issues and only a couple FTF’s. I stick with the recommended standard velocity rounds and will change the flimsy spring every couple thousand rounds.

magnut · November 14, 2018, 07:35 PM

phoenix 22s are pretty complicated as far as the zamak guns go. Change recoil springs every 500 rounds and keep an eye on the frame cracks in the magazine well area at the top of the frame. Cool little plinkers just not as durable as some other. The company is excellent for parts and they are not one of the types that will deny you should you need an extractor...fireing pin etc. etc.

Cheapshooter · November 15, 2018, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Meanwhile something like a walther p22 zamak slide crack commonly.

I think that problem was most often with the "target" model. Instead of using a seperate, longer slide, or just having the longer barrel sticking out of the slise they used a steel faux muzzle brake clamped on with set secrews. If it was fitted just slightly too far back the ZAMAK slide would slam against the solid steel block clamped to the barrel.
My P22 !has well over 2K rounds through it with no sign of cracks.

magnut · November 15, 2018, 03:42 PM

yeah I am sure people have figured out the issues with the P22 whatever they are. A little tip for all the zamak lovers though is that US made zamak guns are typically far more durable than Euro zamak pistols. The US made guns in general have less thin areas and overall have beefier major components. Where as the euro pistols designs can have thin areas that make them fragile even in the smaller calibers.

The US designs are typically far more simple and use less parts. Most of the designs are based off the Raven. Even the hi-points are basically a supersized raven. Some small differences have been made over the years but the fundamental design aspects are still there. Which is a good thing as the raven design is pretty brilliant and one of the most copied designs in the world for small pistols. The only ring of fire pistol I can think of thats quite a bit different is the pheonix hp22.

There are some bad US made zamak guns though so research saves headaches. Some of the smaller 380s and 9mms like the Jimenez ja9 are not strong enough for regular shooting.

The basic design of the american zamak guns are durable and inherently accurate. Problems arise from certain companies choosing form over function and trying to make a zamak blowback gun mimic a steel locked breech pistol. Highpoints being thick and massive is a good thing. Especially when your pumping out cartridges like 40s&w.

Most of the smaller ones in 22,25,32 are solid little pistols that hold up well. Accuracy depends on the quality of the barrel. Some are really accurate! Reliability is often up and down until some simple tweeking is performed. Once you get them running they are typically fine with normal maintenance. FMJ standard loads should be used.

Zamak is a neat material for firearms but should not be looked at like steel. Its not even close. a good solid zamak gun just has to be desihned differents than a normal locked breech pistol. Its more of a crude partical accelerator. But they do work well when done properly. Ravens, hipoints, jennings, ....even some models of lorcin are capable firearms within their limits.

**JohnKSa** · November 17, 2018, 08:00 AM

Probably worth pointing out that Zamak is actually a family of alloys. The material properties differ considerably over the various alloys.

**Aguila Blanca** · November 17, 2018, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

Probably worth pointing out that Zamak is actually a family of alloys. The material properties differ considerably over the various alloys.

That was actually mentioned in post #16:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Zamac is an alloy of zinc with varying amounts of aluminum, magnesium, and copper mixed in. (There are actually several "official" types of Zamac, and the amounts of the alloying elements vary from one type to another.)

Zamac is also often used synonymously with the term "pot metal," but that's not correct. The composition of the several types of Zamac is fixed, whereas "pot metal" is sort of like a stew made from the leftovers from last week -- it's an alloy of whatever gets thrown into the pot. Pot metal, like Zamac, is primarily comprised of zinc, but the alloying compounds and percentages aren't constant, and may not even be known, from one batch to the next.

Bill DeShivs · November 17, 2018, 02:58 PM

"Pot metal" originally referred to cast iron- metal that pots were made of. It was the polymer of the day. Parts could be cast easily. Most of the turn of the century "Saturday night Specials" and cheap shotguns used cast iron for their receivers.

"Pot metal" became synonymous with cheap guns, hence today's "pot metal" is a zinc alloy. Perhaps it should be plastic....

**Aguila Blanca** · November 17, 2018, 07:39 PM

In the 1940s and 1950s, "pot metal" (the zinc-based variety) was what was used for most automotive exterior trim pieces -- of which there were a lot in those days. My family drove Hudsons in those days, and a lot of their models had the parking lights in chrome-plated, "pot metal" housings that resided on the tops of the front fenders. Living in salt belt territory, after a few years those parts became pitted unless very meticulously maintained.

November 17, 2018, 08:00 AM	#31
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,994	Probably worth pointing out that Zamak is actually a family of alloys. The material properties differ considerably over the various alloys. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

November 17, 2018, 02:58 PM	#33
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,987	"Pot metal" originally referred to cast iron- metal that pots were made of. It was the polymer of the day. Parts could be cast easily. Most of the turn of the century "Saturday night Specials" and cheap shotguns used cast iron for their receivers. "Pot metal" became synonymous with cheap guns, hence today's "pot metal" is a zinc alloy. Perhaps it should be plastic.... __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

November 14, 2018, 06:38 PM	#26
magnut Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 112	its all about how well they are designed. Ravens have zamak slides and hold up well...very well. Meanwhile something like a walther p22 zamak slide crack commonly. Thin areas.....bad. Thick....good. Lower calibers 22,25,32 typically good.....380s.....sometimes ok. Anything 9mm and above needs to be a high point because you need weight and overall mass for strength. I have lots of zamak guns. I know most of these designs strengths and weaknesses. People would be surprised how good some of these little guns can be.

November 14, 2018, 06:58 PM	#27
Targa Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Posts: 2,084	I have a Phoenix Arms HP-22, it only has a 1000 rounds through it so far but no issues and only a couple FTF’s. I stick with the recommended standard velocity rounds and will change the flimsy spring every couple thousand rounds.

November 14, 2018, 07:35 PM	#28
magnut Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 112	phoenix 22s are pretty complicated as far as the zamak guns go. Change recoil springs every 500 rounds and keep an eye on the frame cracks in the magazine well area at the top of the frame. Cool little plinkers just not as durable as some other. The company is excellent for parts and they are not one of the types that will deny you should you need an extractor...fireing pin etc. etc.

November 15, 2018, 03:42 PM	#30
magnut Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 112	yeah I am sure people have figured out the issues with the P22 whatever they are. A little tip for all the zamak lovers though is that US made zamak guns are typically far more durable than Euro zamak pistols. The US made guns in general have less thin areas and overall have beefier major components. Where as the euro pistols designs can have thin areas that make them fragile even in the smaller calibers. The US designs are typically far more simple and use less parts. Most of the designs are based off the Raven. Even the hi-points are basically a supersized raven. Some small differences have been made over the years but the fundamental design aspects are still there. Which is a good thing as the raven design is pretty brilliant and one of the most copied designs in the world for small pistols. The only ring of fire pistol I can think of thats quite a bit different is the pheonix hp22. There are some bad US made zamak guns though so research saves headaches. Some of the smaller 380s and 9mms like the Jimenez ja9 are not strong enough for regular shooting. The basic design of the american zamak guns are durable and inherently accurate. Problems arise from certain companies choosing form over function and trying to make a zamak blowback gun mimic a steel locked breech pistol. Highpoints being thick and massive is a good thing. Especially when your pumping out cartridges like 40s&w. Most of the smaller ones in 22,25,32 are solid little pistols that hold up well. Accuracy depends on the quality of the barrel. Some are really accurate! Reliability is often up and down until some simple tweeking is performed. Once you get them running they are typically fine with normal maintenance. FMJ standard loads should be used. Zamak is a neat material for firearms but should not be looked at like steel. Its not even close. a good solid zamak gun just has to be desihned differents than a normal locked breech pistol. Its more of a crude partical accelerator. But they do work well when done properly. Ravens, hipoints, jennings, ....even some models of lorcin are capable firearms within their limits.

November 17, 2018, 07:39 PM	#34
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,473	In the 1940s and 1950s, "pot metal" (the zinc-based variety) was what was used for most automotive exterior trim pieces -- of which there were a lot in those days. My family drove Hudsons in those days, and a lot of their models had the parking lights in chrome-plated, "pot metal" housings that resided on the tops of the front fenders. Living in salt belt territory, after a few years those parts became pitted unless very meticulously maintained.