Buckshot data

[davem]

I've been looking on the net but I haven't found much about the differences in individual pellet penetration of buckshot. In other words, at 40 yards a 00 pellet penetrated x" through pine and a No.1 penetrated y inches. That kind of thing.
Any help appreciated.
Also, tests on lead versus plated buckshot.

[dahermit]

I did some "field research" on the penetration on deer with #4 buckshot. I found that they would penetrate both sides of deer shot broadside at less than fourth yards, found the buckshot just under the hide of the deer at forty yards with similar shots. Those buckshot that were found under the hide on the off-side left bruises on the inside of the hide, suggesting that the hide was tougher than the muscle and bone they had just penetrated. I concluded that 100% penetration was not necessary inasmuch as the hide is not a vital organ and the blood pooled into the chest cavity. I further concluded that #4 buckshot was a good killer, taking about eight different deer with them in my youth with no long tracking necessary. I did switch from 2-3/4 (27 pellets) shells to 3" and their 41 count loads. I still have a couple of bandoleers full for the event of needing to meat hunt some day.

[davem]

The reason I asked is because I think there is a lot of mis-information on buckshot and I myself have been led in the wrong direction. A couple of folks told me that they have used 00, 0, and 1 and it all kills about the same. Theoretically a larger pellet ought to have more momentum (I think) and penetrate and kill better but field experience from these other folks has shown it all kills about the same. They told me I should therefore see what size works best (tightest pattern) in my particular shotgun.
This is a very hard subject to get any worthwhile information. Hunters in the Deep South that run dogs after deer- so far they seem to be the only guys that really know what they are doing. I tried law enforcement but they use buckshot at point blank range and really have no idea what type patterns can be achieved at 40-50-60 yards.
The buckshot under the hide- same thing as you see with birds. The skin stretches and stops the shot.
My hope is that others can share their buckshot experience. Please let us know if you ever undertook much testing of various loads/chokes and did any pattern testing at 25 yards or longer.

[Kosh75287]

Do you know anyone with a .32 H&R or .32 S&W revolver? Shoot a 60 - 80 gr. cast lead bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1100 f/s or so, into whatever test medium you have handy, set out at 40 yards. It should give you a reasonable "first approximation" as to how 00 or 000 buck should behave.

Actual buckshot, fired from an actual shotgun, will (PROBABLY) have a higher muzzle velocity, though it may not retain it as well as the pistol projectiles will. It's not a PERFECTLY valid comparison, but it might tell you what you're wanting to find out.

At 40 yards, I'm not optimistic about getting all or most of the buckshot pattern to hit the penetration medium (unless it has a very large frontal area), so it's difficult to say how different a a salvo of .32 caliber lead balls might behave vs. a single .32 caliber wadcutter or LRN. Doubtless, the former will incapacitate a target faster than a single round if delivered anywhere but the brain.

[davem]

If you read any of the old books on buckshot the deal was to test fire various sizes to see what would pattern. I just got back from a national hunting/fishing retailer in my area- all they sell is No. 00 buck. That is probably all most folks want to buy based on the idea it "hits harder" but all the old books said to test fire No. 00, No. 0, and No. 1. I belong to another forum and the guys there know what they are doing- a lot found in their particular shotguns they could get No.1 to cover a man's hand at 30 yards. Most claim that all the various sizes kill about the same.
The thought occurred to check some law enforcement sites but they shoot at close range and don't seem to be aware of patterns.

[upstate81]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-...e-box-o-truth/


This website has some very interesting penetration tests. Give them a read.

[davem]

Thanks. Well off hand the 00 buck would seem the best for deer hunting as the penetration was better. I think years ago almost (All?) shotguns had fixed chokes- maybe that's why there was 00,0, 1 sized buck- find what worked best. Now just get the 00 buck and find a choke that throws the best pattern.
Copper plated buck might have penetrated a little deeper however I've had some folks say the pattern is not that tight in some instances. There is also Hevi-shot that I think is available as buckshot.
Off hand, (I've been talking to other folks) it seems like buckshot is most appropriate in the deep south (Where I live) when there are dogs and other hunters in the woods and you want a projectile that is lethal up close but drops off on velocity pretty fast. Some folks have reported okay results out to 40 yards but buckshot seems to be at its best 15-25 yards. There is a lot of wild hog hunting for marginal "meat hogs" that weigh around 60 pounds. You want to EAT THE RIBS so guys shoot them in the head at 25-30 yards and the hogs just drop-=-no tracking.

[Gunplummer]

Some of the leaning towards OO may have to do with hunting regulations in the state.

[sw282]

l am almost 70 and have hunted deer most of my life...l grew up hunting them with buckshot behind a pack of dogs in the South Carolina Low Country.. First gun l used was a single shot 20 ga Stevens.. #2 buck l think. My next lead slinger was a 311 Stevens sbs 12 ga.. 2 3/4'' #00 buck.. 9 32cal pellets...That old 311 was a real deer slayer..@50 yds l could get 3 pellets in an 8'' pie plate from the full choke barrel. My favorite deer gun w/dogs til l got the ULTIMATE deer getter... A Humpback Browning A5 Light 12.. Finest gun ever made...l also discovered the ULTIMATE buckshot too. Walked into store looking for 2 3/4'' #00 but they had none...All they had was #000 buckshot..8 36cal pellets in those shells.. 00 will put down a deer @50yds but not penetrate all the way..Triple aught ''000..'' will go all the way thru.

#000 are the ultimate buckshot

[davem]

Well, if you were in South Carolina.... I have read quite a bit of Archibald Rutledge's stories. For those that don't know anything about him, his great grandfather was one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, he owned a huge plantation in the low country of South Carolina, and he himself was a Prep School professor in Pennsylvania and would return home to South Carolina to hunt- I say all this because whatever he wrote would surely be truthful rather than a huge "tall tale".
He wrote of shooting a few bucks at 60 yards and he took a shoulder shot- if I recall the buck ran a short distance before falling but he had a hound so finding the deer wasn't an issue. The thing is, he downed a buck at 60 yards with buckshot and through the shoulder area. He might have done that only a couple of times and most of the deer he shot were closer. He had a side by side shotgun- Ithaca I think.
One problem is nothing is etched in stone, just like with a rifle, I'm getting the idea that some deer will get hit with only a pellet or two and go down and others get a full load and run. You'll find the same stories with deer hit with 30-30's or 30-06.
What I'm trying to figure out is if I pattern buckshot aiming for a paper plate. If the spread of pellets puts five consistently on a paper plate at 40 yards- does that make the load good for 40 yards? Off hand I'm thinking probably so. Now let's say the best I can do is 5 pellets on a paper plate at 25 yards- then should I limit my shots to 25 yards? If at 30 yards I'm still getting 4 pellets on a paper plate- then would an ethical shot still be made at thirty yards? I hope I explained what I'm trying to figure out. In other words, if at thirty five yards I can only get 1-2 pellets to consistently hit a paper plate- would that pattern be too thin?

[redrick]

One pellet in the right place will kill a deer , but I would not shoot at a deer at 35 yards if it only put 2 pellets in the kill zone . I would want at lease half the load in the kill zone at the distance my gun , choke and shot limited me too .

[davem]

Well, there are some unknowns. Still sounds like a hit of 5 pellets would be effective. In some very dense woods you'll seldom get a shot over 35 yards.
On the buckshot sizes. I was reading some old books with all the various sizes but nowadays all that is sold is #00. I got thinking on this and realized all the shotguns of yesteryear had fixed chokes. It is probably ok to just pick #00 and then test various chokes. You can get #000 and in a few places #1.
This may sound really crazy but You could walk into a stand with a shotgun and buckshot and in a backpack have a second barrel that was rifled with a scope and shoot sabots while in a tree.
OK, I've jumped a lot of deer walking into and out of stands.

[WV_gunner]

I haven't done much work with shotguns but I figured I could post some of my findings. A Circuit Judge puts all 5 pellets of 3 inch 000 .410 in a fist sized pattern at around 15 yards, not that I would hunt with using shot in it. I think the shot all being in one vertical column makes it have a tighter pattern than the bigger guns. I have only played with 000 12 gauge and it'll turn a gallon jug of ice into dust where the pellets hit. 000 12 gauge is hard to find. There's probably a dozen or so places within an hour radius of here and the smallest shop has it. Federal makes it, they make .410 000 too.

[Dreaming100Straight]

You may want to track down the gelatin tests discussed on SGW at http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958 . The link provided at post 1 is broken. Klawman may have posted it on TFL a few years back in discussing ultimate home defense ammo.

[davem]

Thanks for the link. Just about all the data these days is "tactical" means self defense in a home. The ranges are virtually point blank so no one is doing any testing at a patterning board 30 yards away. In a lot of instances concerns of over penetration result in favoring lower velocity loads.

Well, I've bought a small variety of loads. I have #00 in reg and mag, some mag #4, some old #1 in mag. Some copper plated. You could spend a small fortune testing all possibilities.

In the Florida swamps where I hunt I'd say 20-35 yards is about 80% or more of the likely shooting. Any deer you see at 50 plus yards is a deer crossing a trail and if you want to sit and watch a trail a rifle is better. If I can find a load that puts 12 pellets in a 12" circle at 30 yards- I think that would really work for a lot of the hunting I do. I have jumped a lot of deer I have never shot because I have a 30-30 and the brush is so dense a deflected bullet is a real possibility- I just don't shoot.
If I end up with similar results from what I've found the #00 does penetrate deeper and some hunters claim with a frontal shoulder shot it will penetrate the shoulder and both lungs. Due to a mineral deficiency in the soil Florida deer seldom have good racks. Most of the hunting is for venison and a lot of buckshot hunters I've spoken with take a neck shot if they know the pattern is there. They claim a half dozen buckshot pellets invariably breaks spine bone, cuts arteries, and just drops the deer.
Well.......we'll see. I'll become a believer if at the patterning board I actually get some tight patterns.

[redrick]

Try your factory chokes first and if they are not patterning good enough try a Buck Kicker or Trulock choke . Trulock has a no risk warranty . If you don't like it send it back for a refund .

You will have a might good gun if it will put 12 out of 15 in a 12" circle .

I will be patterning a new 870 that I bought last year after deer season was over . I have a Buck Kicker extra full choke that I am going to try in it and I have 13 different 00 buckshot to try in it , along with some 000 . Boy is that going to hurt . I pattern mine at 40 yards .

[davem]

Red: I'm trying to figure what is what on patterns. I get the idea that if 5 pellets hit a deer in the lungs or neck- that would be a good hit. Figuring such a target is about 10" I was going to use a 10" paper picnic plate and see what loads would consistently put 5 or more pellets in the plate at the longest range. Let's say I test everything I can find and Federal 3" magnum #00 copper plated - shot through a moderate choke is best with a minimum of 5 on most shots hitting at 37 yards- so I use that round and figure no shots over 40 yards. In any event that is how I am thinking. If this is wrong, please chime in.
All this testing is going to be quite an undertaking. I am right now figuring out how to make some sort of a patterning board that won't get shot up too fast.
As an economy, I figure if I try one load of say Remington 3" magnum #00 at twenty-five yards and it only puts 1 or2 pellets in a paper plate using an improved cylinder choke- that probably no further testing on that combination is needed- take out the I.C. choke and try a Moderate choke, etc. When I find something that does a good job, then fire another few rounds to confirm a consistency on the pattern.

[RMcL]

See:

No.4 Buck vs 00 Buck in Terms of Penetration

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=568004