load data bullet types

[kramer 1]

Newbie to reloading.When reading load data can you use any bullet as long as the grains match?For example Im using longshot powder and they show under 357mag. a 125g hdy xtp bullet with 8.7 grains of powder.Can I just use a cheaper 125g LRN bullet for target practice?

[TailGator]

When reading load data can you use any bullet as long as the grains match?

In a word, no.

Changing bullets change the pressures in the chamber in different ways.

In the example you use, you changed from a copper jacketed hollow point to a round-nosed lead bullet. Hollow points are almost always longer to get the same weight, so loading the same charge at the same cartridge length means that the volume inside the case devoted to powder will be smaller. Burn the same amount of powder in a smaller space and you get higher pressure.

Going from jacketed to lead also increases pressure, because the softer lead better conforms to the rifling of the barrel.

Load tables in reloading manuals give different loads for different bullets to reflect these and other factors. Everyone needs at least one manual, and many reloaders have more than one. I am fairly new to reloading, so if I erred in my explanations a more knowledgeable person will be along to correct me, but you would be wise to do some reading about the factors that affect pressure, and to get some load data that is more specific to what you want to do.

[kramer 1]

Okay that makes sense.Like I said Im new to reloading so Ill stick to the loading charts.Thanks!

[serf 'rett]

Of course, if you are shooting a .357 mag revolver, you could use 38 Special for paper punching.

There may be a reason Hodgdon's online reloading information DOES NOT show Longshot and a lead bullet combination for .357 mag.

[mikld]

For a new reloader I'd say no, stick with book data. Jacketed and lead bullets have different friction characteristics and there is different load data available for each type bullet (BTW, I cast and shoot 125 gr. lead bullets in my 9mms a lot).

[Nick_C_S]

For added clarity:

The biggest factor involved is the amount of internal case volume difference between the two bullets when seated.

Even though two different bullets may have the same weight, one may seat deeper into the case - creating less internal volume; and thus, more pressure (potentially).

In the case of Hornady XTP's, they tend to sit deeper into the case than most of their equal weight brethren. On top of that, your "substitute" bullet is a lead slug. Lead bullets have a higher density (because they contain no lower-density copper), which nearly guarantees them not seating as deep as the XTP's. AND. . . lead has less barrel friction, so it will move down the barrel more easily, relieving pressure more easily.

All that together, it's likely to say that in this instance, it is probable that you can just move the powder starting load from the XTP data straight over to your lead slug without trouble. That is not load advice; and every handloader must make their own good judgment calls.

[Sevens]

That is not load advice; and every handloader must make their own good judgment calls.

This is great advice and making these kinds of calls gets far, FAR easier with time and experience at the bench. In the mean time, it's never going to be bad form to come to a forum such as this one and be very specific about what you are thinking or wishing to do, and ask for explicit directions and/or opinions from others that have traveled a similar path.

So ask, and be specific. You pretty much did that in this thread.

I'm curious about the nature of that 125gr LRN. When I think of cast lead bullets meant for .38/.357, a "125gr LRN" is not what occurs to me. That sounds like a 9mm bullet, or a "cowboy" bullet meant for very sedate velocities.

Loading cast lead can be extremely rewarding in many ways, and the folks who are really in to lead bullets just won't have it any other way. But beware that there are many pitfalls to using lead bullets -- that's a whole other discussion.

If I were in your shoes and new to handloading and looking to make 125gr .357 Magnum loads using Longshot and saving some money, I'd be chasing down a thick-plated bullet for this task. I would start with a bullet from Xtreme, they even offer one with a cannelure. Berry's makes a fantastic bullet for this also. I would not expect accuracy quite as good as you'll get from a Hornady XTP -- those are simply fantastic component bullets, but they aren't low in cost.

With Xtreme, you can get 500 of them for under $45, shipping included.

These are NOT defense bullets. These are NOT hunting bullets. These are not match grade target bullets. But these are phenomenal for trigger time, skill building, plinking, pure enjoyment and all the other things I love to do with handguns. More than anything, I mow down steel plates with them.

[sawdustdad]

I'll add another vote for Xtreme bullets. I've been buying their plated bullets in .38/.357 (125g flat point) and 9mm (115g plated round point) and been very happy with them for plinking and practice. Waiting for a box of .44s to arrive for some .44sp and low level .44mag loads. Xtreme often has sales/free shipping and the price is great.

The obligatory "this is not load advice" follows:
Using starting loads, I have been using jacketed bullet data where the bullet form is the same--that is, the seating depths are close or the same. Or, where it's available in newer guides, other, similar plated bullet data.

[pathdoc]

SOME loading tables in some authoritative sources - not all - will give charge weights for a generic weight and type of bullet (e.g. "125gn jacketed") without specifying brand or type. This USUALLY means they've tested the full range of what was out there in the market when the tables were constructed and determined some sort of safe margin for all of them.

Chief among these that I've seen is Lee. However, I've noticed that even Lee have become more and more specific about brand names in their Lee Loader charge table inserts, at least in rifle calibres. This MAY be because of the rise of non-lead bullets (all-gilding-metal, all-copper, etc.) and their different internal ballistic behaviour from jacketed lead.

If I'm buying from one of the big bullet companies (e.g. Hornady, Speer, Sierra) which puts out a loading manual, I'd use their most recent data first and foremost. If I've got any particular queries from a bullet company that does NOT put out such a manual and I felt on shaky ground, I'd go directly to the manufacturer and ask what I should use. Tell them what primers and powders you have, and ask what sort of seating depth you should use. If in doubt about seating depth or no data available, seat to maximum cartridge overall length if the bullet length allows it or the cannelure if there is one and its use is appropriate.

The people who pioneered things like the .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum were experienced and started out with beefed up revolvers to begin with and IMO accepted they were possibly going to wreck at least one in the work-up. If you're not prepared to take that risk, don't stray into unknown territory.

[kramer 1]

thanks for the help.I looked up the extreme bullets and look like they would be a nice alternative to the hornady xtp for target practice.Ill match the grains and start at min.loads.

[T. O'Heir]

The answer is still no, but it has nothing to do with pressure. Cast bullets cannot be driven as fast as jacketed bullets. If you do, you'll get leading in your barrel.
You can, however, load any jacketed 125 grain bullet with 8.7 of Longshot no fuss. However, you need to work up the load too. Not just pick one and hope it's accurate out of your revolver.
"...DOES NOT show Longshot and..." More likely that it wasn't tested, but Longshot is a shotgun powder that works best for high velocity handgun loads.

[OverPressure]

I have had a little exposure in the Higher Velocity 357 38 special reloading
with lead bullets. My reason for mentioning lead here is in reference to
economics!

I was loading accuracy loads a couple years ago for my S&W 686.
I started loading 158 gr and quickly moved down to 125 gr. My
factory ammo had been 158 gr.

I lowered speeds down to 800 fps and slowly moved up as high as 1350 fps.
During this period i probably shot 5000 rds of lead bullets expermenting.

I was shooting Oregon Trails and SNS cast bullets, mostly 125 gr flat point.
I did shoot quited a few 158 gr round nose at velocitys up to 1200fps.

NO LEADING FOR ANY WEIGHTS OR VELOCITIES! Powder variations were
from Titegroup , Clays, Blue Dot and Alliant 2400.

If you are looking for economics you can't beat lead bullets. Practice Practice
Practice. I think i was paying 50 bucks a thousand for 125 gr. Then!

Your powder is a slow burning powder and dialing it back to velocity's
that occommodate lead bullets might cause lower pressure problems.

You might try to find a faster burning powder and using lead just for the experience. The Wallet Experience!

I understand the higher velocity lure, My 50 caliber S&W 500 with a 335 gr 1400 fps bullet
usually clears the range when i start shooting it. I always wait until
I have shot my other firearms before shooting the 500 because my right hand is usually
out of commission for severals days afterwards.

[kramer 1]

how about a 38+p load/longshot powder 5.0-5.5 grains /hornady swc for a budget load?the load data shows a hornady 158g xtp but I have 158 swc instead.yes , no?Fps will be below what the swc can handle.I will be shooting it out of a 357 revolver 4 inch barrel.

[Sevens]

That's very much out of range for Hodgdon Longshot. I actually tried that load once but using a 158gr Plated FP and 5.5grains of Longshot and it was a pretty bad load, it literally gave me velocity swings of over -140- fps between low and high. Lots of unburnt powder.

It's just not what Longshot is meant to do. If you're on a deserted island and it's the ONLY components you have and a bullet will exit the bore, then you do it. But here in the real world, buy a different powder.

[kramer 1]

How about this 38 +p FBI load using longshot?I have 158swc/thinking 6-7 grains of longshot out of a 38 special case.Will this work for target practice?

[Sevens]

Here's an idea: keep asking the same question even if you don't like the answers. Keep trying to do the same thing even if nobody wants to sign off on the idea.

The max load that Hodgdon shows for a 158 grain slug and Longshot powder is 5.5 grains.

The starting load for .357 Magnum using a 158 grain slug and Longshot is 7.3 grains.

You said:

Like I said Im new to reloading so Ill stick to the loading charts.

[kramer 1]

I thought you had to load up in grains for lead.my bad,so ill try the 5.5 grains with the 158 swc/38 case and see how bad it is.I know longshot is not the best for 38s but this is all the local gun shop had on my island.thanks for the help.