Wet Tumblin, Anneling Thougts

[RC20]

I have taken to the wet tumbling and was amazed at some of the issues.

Biggest is I shoot a lot of 6.5 Lapua now. The stainless pins are supposedly .250 or so long. Those stick in the neck. When they stick in the neck they also have some or a lot stuck down in the case.

I talked to CED and they had no answer other than it had been reported.

After a lot of sleuthing, I came across Southern Shine Media, its stainless chips. Clearly a bit lower quality as some of them are metal and rust but it sounds like that decays out and causes no issues. It comes in 5 lbs for $35 and free shipping (even to AK apparently !) The CED uses 3.5 lbs to plenty as the chips disappear (those pins wind up everywhere!)

Regardless, you need large pins or small pins as anything from 45 down to 22 is going to get caught unless the pins are a bit longer than 45 caliber or shorter than 22.

As for annealing, the other benefits are.

1. No smoke from the carbon so I don't have to open doors and windows to do that.

2. Anneal is more consistent (with the Annie). Instruction say to run 10 cases through before the electronics settle out. Now I can see the metal blush start on case 8 and its very consistent.
I am still doing an 80-90% anneal. I have no desire to take the cases over the edge and as long as I repeat I am good.
The 6.5 Lapua cases have been good for 10 cycles. Good chamber and possibly the quality of the Lapua mfg cases (I think Pederson is the only other 6.5 x 47 case maker)

I had some liquid dishwasher soap to use up (the pods work so much better) and not committed to any given soap though the lemon-shine adder is nice.

It is nice to get the PPU rounds bright and shiny. Yes I know it makes no real difference but I like bright and shiny brass and if it makes me happy.....

Definitely a learning curve, I have modified the ideas of how to go about it to what works for me with my setup. I can recover the pins with a magnet (not all stainless is non magnetic)

[Shadow9mm]

You can tumble without the pins. I have found the brass resizes easier if you dont use them brass still comes out looking great. I just tumble for 2hrs instead of 1.

Heard great things about the southern shine. Jerry micukek uses it. However i called them and it takes about 10lb vs about 5lb of the steel pins. With whe weight limit on the drum i felt it limited capacity too much. So i just use water, cleaner, and fill it with brass until im just under the weight limit.

[jpx2rk]

I wet tumble and use the pins that came with the FA brand wet tumbler I have. Never had any pins stick in any case, but the largest I have is a 6br, so... I shoot several 20 & 22 cal and never had stuck pins. I use Dawn and Lemi-shine and the pins, rinse real good, and use the FA wet/dry media seperator to shake all the pins out.

[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

You can tumble without the pins. I have found the brass resizes easier if you dont use them brass still comes out looking great. I just tumble for 2hrs instead of 1.

Heard great things about the southern shine. Jerry micukek uses it. However i called them and it takes about 10lb vs about 5lb of the steel pins. With whe weight limit on the drum i felt it limited capacity too much. So i just use water, cleaner, and fill it with brass until im just under the weight limit.

Yup, no pins here either. Just a squirt of Dawn, about 1/8 tsp of lemishine in the HF drum and it’s good to go. Tumble for an hour after depriming with a Lee depriming die. Rinse them clean and dry in the oven at 175 for an hour. Then lube and size, back in the tumbler with just the Dawn for an hour to clean off the lanolin, dry in the oven one more time. Then finally an hour in the crushed walnut vibrator with Nufinish and I’m good to go. I know the tumbler sounds like overkill, but it really puts a nice long lasting shine on the brass.

[hounddawg]

a while back I picked up a bucket of 115 dishwasher pods at Costco for about $10, one of those and a 1/2 teaspoon of Lemishine. Not sure how many of the original 5 lbs pins I have left after 5 years, more than a few have went down the drain or swept up off the reloading room floor and trashed. Anyway I toss in a goodly amount. Tumble for 1 hour, then they get dumped into one of these

https://www.amazon.com/Sifting-Litte...58159604&psc=1

where I shake out the pins in mass first then one case at a time and toss them into a stainless steel bowl. The bowl goes into a convection oven at 220F for one hour. Once cooled they get a second check for any stuck pins and into the AMP they go.

Probably overkill but it keeps me off the streets and out of the pool halls

[Shadow9mm]

I considered the oven, just makes me nervous. I throw mine in a small plastic tote and warm them up with a heat gun on low, throw in a 40gram silica gel pack, put the lid on, and let them sit overnight.

[hounddawg]

I considered the oven, just makes me nervous.

unless you put the oven on self clean it is fine. grain structure does not begin to change until just below 500 F. Don't take my word for it though. Here is a link to a paper from a real metallurgist

https://vacaero.com/information-reso...dge-brass.html

Annealing experiments were conducted on a number of the cold worked specimens. Figures 5a and b show color etched images of the specimens cold reduced 50% and then annealed 30 minutes at 500 and 700°F. No difference in the microstructure is seen in the specimen held 30 minutes at 500°F while a very small amount of recrystallization is observed in the specimen held 30 minutes at 700°F. Figures 6a and b show color images of 50% cold reduced specimens held for 4 and 8 minutes at 800°F while Figures 6c and d show 50% cold reduced specimens held 15 and 30 minutes at 800°F. No change is observed after 4 minutes at 800°F, while a minor amount of recrystallization has occurred after 8 minutes. Holding specimens for 15 and 30 minutes at 800°F revealed partial recrystallization after 15 minutes and full recrystallization after 30 minutes. The grain structure is relatively fine but is not uniform in its distribution.

[RC20]

The Pin problem is that they generally come in .250 lengths. That is just right to get stuck in the 6.5 cases. I have no problems at all with the 30 cal cases (I do have 270 but that barrel is off right now)

The length quality control is not spot on. Some are .255, some .270 so there are enough too long to stick in a .264 case neck.

It might be that given enough time the Pins would drop below that critial point. I shoot a lot of 6.5 so getting tired of picking pins out and then if there is more than one, it packs the case full of pins that have to get bumped out.

Below 264 is probably ok and above that is ok.

I got the Chips ordered and that should resolve it.

[akinswi]

RC20 ,

are you sizing your neck before you tumble? That fired neck being wider diameter may allow the pins to float in there better.

I very rarely get a pin stuck in .223 case . But they are a pain when they do.

Hope you stick with the wet tumbling amazing how clean the primer pockets get

[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

I considered the oven, just makes me nervous. I throw mine in a small plastic tote and warm them up with a heat gun on low, throw in a 40gram silica gel pack, put the lid on, and let them sit overnight.

That’s why I set the oven at 175, it’s as low as our oven goes. I’ve been doing it this way for a long time with no ill effects. I’ve also used a heat gun in the past with no problems, but I’d bet it gets at least as warm as the oven method, if not warmer. One hint though, get your own cookie sheet, don’t use one of the wife’s.

[hounddawg]

what is weird is that with .260 Remington I sometimes get a pin stuck in the neck, with 6.5 Grendel it is much rare. I just look at each case neck and keep a pair of tweezers handy when I am shaking the pins out of the cleaned brass. Minor problem, easy fix. I looked into the chips, this link has a good variety and good price

https://www.bcprecision.com/products...smart_campaign

if you have a problem with rusting just store the chips submerged in water, no air equals no corrosion

[ocharry]

RC... i used to use ceramic rods when i was shooting black powder all the time and they worked great in the straight wall cases but when i started that was the rage..and they do a great job

BUT, when i started loading a lot of 223 i was using the walnut shell...man i had forgotten how dusty that stuff was. so i started looking for ss pins and they come in different shapes and lengths. i did my research and came up with what i bought and that was 1/8 ss angle cut...got them on ebay, they are for finishing and i tell ya they make the brass look better than new, primer pockets too.....no sticking in the 22 neck

i use a ss screen basket i got from wal mart, it has wings that slide out on each end to sit on the sink.....the screen is fine so the pins stay in but lets the rinse water through....so i dump in the brass and pins and then rinse them off and they go in a screened bowl i got from wal mart also to dry for a few days and then they get annealed..so i guess the flame gets any residual water ...i have the flame style and i can load it up with around 200+ 223 cases and do something else while it does its magic for me

check out the shorter pins...this wet tumbling is the only way i clean these days...i dont think i will ever go back

the link hounddawg provided is the pins i have and they work great...looks like the same price as ebay....but maybe free shipping on ebay

ocharry

[RC20]

the link hounddawg provided is the pins i have and they work great...looks like the same price as ebay....but maybe free shipping on ebay

Looks like the same type I have on the way and the price I paid is a bit less. Usually free shipping does not mean Alaska!

a

re you sizing your neck before you tumble? That fired neck being wider diameter may allow the pins to float in there better.

Part of my issue/process is to clean the sizing lube off and out of the cases. So I do size and M die first, trim if needed which needs to be sized and then anneal if needed.

Talking to CED is just the 6.5. Probably different mfgs have different mix of quality and how long the pins are or vary.

Running sample checks on the CED supplied pins they vary enough to stick in anything around 6.5. 6.8 might be ok, have to grab the converter and 6mm ok, 25 caliber stuff might have issues as well.

[jpx2rk]

Some might want to investigate/research the FA wet/dry media separator. You can rinse the brass WHILE you are separating the pins from brass. I use it, fill the container up to cover the brass that is in the rotating basket, spin it forwards/backwards with some "force" to shake the pins out, change the water, repeat as many times as you want. Stopping the basket abruptly while going back/forth shakes the pins out.

[akinswi]

Originally Posted by RC20

Looks like the same type I have on the way and the price I paid is a bit less. Usually free shipping does not mean Alaska!

a

Part of my issue/process is to clean the sizing lube off and out of the cases. So I do size and M die first, trim if needed which needs to be sized and then anneal if needed.

Talking to CED is just the 6.5. Probably different mfgs have different mix of quality and how long the pins are or vary.

Running sample checks on the CED supplied pins they vary enough to stick in anything around 6.5. 6.8 might be ok, have to grab the converter and 6mm ok, 25 caliber stuff might have issues as well.

RC20,

I typically wet tumble after I have decapped then I size and lube then trim. I remove lube and any brass shavings with a run in corn cob media.

Im trying to understand your cleaning process if your sizing first and depriming etc, how are you cleaning your cases before you run them thru a FLSD? I was always under the impression the cases needed to be clean before run thru a sizing die?
Or are you just neck sizing for this paticular caliber?

I always anneal before I size my cases which are completely clean. I have tried it after I just shot them and it was just so much dirtier.

[RC20]

Short answer is I size first.

Longer part is its an opinion aspect on what you do when. Theoretically fired cases should be cleaned. But....... My cases do not touch the ground. Most of my guns have the ejector removed and I pick the case out by hand (target shooting only and I single load)

I have never had any scratches on the cases doing it that way (and if they fall on the asphalt, I wipe them off). I simply have never seen any issues with doing it that way despite some of the Opinion to the contrary (no issue if you want to but I don't fine it a have to)

So, size first (usually use the de-caper in the sizer but without the neck size ball), then Lyman M Die to uniform the necks, then clean vit wet method and with my current mix of cleaning, I dry tumble them to get the polish on them (the Dishwasher soap I am using leaves a bit of a stain).

If needed, then I trim them in the shoulder trimmer and do the Anneal at 5 -10 case runs.

Similar to the opinion on Barrel cleaning and the thou shalts of exactly how you have to do it or the world ends. Don't run the brush through past the muzzle, use a bore guide.

I ran 8000+ rounds through one barrel and wore it out (still shot under 3/4 inch).

Bore guide, patch guides etc. It fails to convince me that a few passes with a nylon brush is going to wear anything out when you clean vs 8000 bullets at 2500 or FPS.

Barrel break in? I shot 20 rounds and clean a new barrel. Most mfgs say hell hath no fury if you don't shoot once and clean. Hmmm.

Shilen had the best take. We don't think it makes any difference, but people keep wanting us to put out something and are offended we did not. So they created a set of rule to keep people happy.

Having had arguments with people about Ice, Igloos and Alaska when traveling stateside, I an tell you there is no more fury that bursting someone bubble about what Alaska is or is not. they know and that is it. After my first trip stateside and gas station attendants (back in the day when you could not pump your own gas) getting mad at me and getting close to fisticuffs, I just gave up. Yep, hundreds of feet of ice all over, we live in Igloos, its winter 12 months of the year etc.

[akinswi]

RC20,

I wish I could do the same . My M1 slings them every where But mostly between 1 and 3 oclock , just enough to land in gravel and asphalt at our range. They get really nasty.

I did an experiment between neck sizing with the M die vs my lee collet die. They both worked fine but the lee collet die yielded better concentricity than sizing the neck with the M die. But that die has been a God sent. Made bullet seating much easier.

Thats what I love about this forum, is the collection of knowledge from just good ole trial and error. I then try other folks methods and see if they work or if they dont.

[RC20]

Agreed on the forum. Some of it works for me and some does not, but the idea and approach keep you thinking and giving you ideas and sometimes not the one that started it.

In my case single loading and extracting avoids a step and that does not work for all.

Savage bolt is easy to pull the ejector out of, theory is that it helps maintain bullet alignment in the bore as it does not put side pressure on it.

Whether that does anything or not it also means the case does not pop out, you have to pry it out. Not a real problem.

The one that is nice is the Savage target action that I have a left side port only on. For a right hander, it feeds nicely from the left where I have my rounds and I can pull the fired round out and not fumble it over the edge. Guys at the range give the gun odd looks!

Also supposedly more rigid without a magazine cutout in the bottom.

[Kram]

I've been using the SS chips for a couple years. They work very well for me.

[RC20]

Mine came in and I am going to size some cases and do my first batch.

Pins would be fine but at 70% of pins in the case mouth, grrrrr.