Bullet Puller (inertia hammer style)

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by dahermit

I think you mean "shell holder", not "shell plate."

Yes the shell holder.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Unclenick]

The practice of using a shell holder in place of the supplied collet can be dangerous if you have a high primer. See my thread starting post here, and expand the quoted text to see the photos and follow the whole thing to where he finds the missing brass and the shell holder that he'd forgotten (in the first part of the post) he had substituted for the collet, and how that explained what happened. The original thread by the quoted poster has dysfunctional photo links for some reason. There are some subsequent posts in the thread I started that are forms of denial, but what happened to MtJerry is what happened anyway. I responded to those in post #42, but worked out the issue in #45.

[44 AMP]

shell plate??

That gave me visions of a bullet pulling sledge hammer doing 4 or 5 shells at once!

[Unclenick]

The Progressive Unloader! You just might be on to something there!

[tangolima]

I think I read that discussion before. I don't believe it has much to do with the shell holder. High primer in loose pocket perhaps. The primer slammed home and detonated, in which case it might have happened regardless. The softer aluminum in the collet may produce less deceleration than the hard steel in the shell holder. But don't I want more deceleration to pull the bullet out?

Anyway make your own choice.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[hounddawg]

somehow I seriously doubt the use of the shellholder had much to do with that incident. For the anvil of the primer to cause a detonation it the cup needs to be dimpled almost dead center so the primer material is crushed between the primer cup and the cone shaped anvil. see linked photo

The inertia and the primer not being fully seated possibly could possibly cause a loose anvil to rebound off the primer cup possibly causing detonation. That could occur regardless of whether the aluminum collet or the shellholder was used.


edit - Just to be safe though I will try to remember to never pull a bullet with a high primer

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...fig4_271672071

[WmMunny]

https://imgur.com/a/9KUNZ1g
Got about 35 years use out of this bad boy striking it on an upturned 8" piece of pressure treated 4x4.

Shot that killed it was an extra hard whack on the last of several heavily corroded .308s I wanted to make safe for disposal. And for the record, the puller didn't die in vain as that last bullet came out...

[hounddawg]

Whatever caused that primer to go off that was referenced in post 27 I don't think it was because of the use of a shellholder. I checked using a Frankford Arsenal and a RCBS shellholder with both large and small primers. . None of the primer was over the metal in either case. My Hornady shell holders have a even larger hole for the primers than the RCBS. It's easy enough to check if have any doubts

[Unclenick]

You missed my photo, then, of the metal covering almost half the primer when the cap is a bit loose and not forcing the shell holder to center. I've had 1911's fitted by link lug weld-up, cut and scrape that were impacting primers further off-center than that, and shot them in matches with nary a failure.



The trick in this instance is not only to have a high primer but for the slot milled in the shell holder to have its open end close to opposite the side of the puller barrel so that as you swing the handle, so the centrifugal effect resulting from the arc of the swing pushes the cartridge out into the slot, and for the cap not to be fully tightened. It's a matter of all the stars lining up just right (or wrong is maybe more descriptive), so it's not a high probability event, but more the kind of thing that can happen when you don't pay perfect attention to everything. And, as I said in post 42 of that link, it's not a question of whether or not it can happen. It did. So all it takes is to have all those problematic factors line up.

[hounddawg]

even with the cap completely removed and the milled slot facing downward I cannot get mine to get to cover the side Nick. Only tried with .308, 223 and 6.5 Grendel using my old blue FA though. I feel perfectly safe using mine, but if anyone has any doubts it takes 5 seconds to check to see if theirs is open or covered

[Unclenick]

One point to make is I have noticed previously that there is no standard size for the hole through shell holders. Some makes have smaller through-holes than others, and that could be a factor.

[hounddawg]

RCBS is the smallest I have, Hornady has larger holes. Anyway if anyone has any concerns about their own setup it is easy to check. Personally I find those little O ring collets a pain in the neck to use

[tangolima]

Don't have high primer. It has been cause of a lot bad business; misfire or slam fire, when it feels like it.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[44 AMP]

or you could simply use the parts MADE FOR the puller and repair/replace them when necessary...

Just sayin...

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

or you could simply use the parts MADE FOR the puller and repair/replace them when necessary...



Just sayin...

You still don't want to have high primer after sayin.

Nothing wrong with the collet if you don't mind it.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Unclenick]

I suspect a lot of people may not use the collet correctly. Watch the RCBS factory video. Note also that Quinetics is selling an aluminum collar to increase the impact effect so fewer strokes are needed. It is demonstrated in this video needing just one hammer stroke. The puller without it is demonstrated here.

Looking at my shell holders, another important factor would be that some have a pronounced high primer channel while others have none. Those with the high primer channel would be much less likely to give the primer anything to strike against unless it were very high.

[hounddawg]

No reason to over complicate it. Just use the supplied collet if the primers are high or if you want to err on the cautious side

Thanks for the link to that video Nick, here is a link to their website

https://www.quineticscorp.com/produc...-bullet-puller

I think I may replace my ol FA

[tangolima]

From the product description.

"ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES. NOT FOR USE with rim fire cartridges, black powder cartridges, explosive projectile ammo or ammunition with high primers."

-TL

P.S. I don't mean to be argumentative. I just googled the topic. There are plenty of detonation incidents with the factory 3-piece collet. Some even claimed a shell holder was safer. I myself don't think it has much to do with the collet or the shell holder. Perhaps it is an intrinsic risk associated with impact puller. Well that rekindles my interest of getting a puller die.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

While looking into the new Quinetics updated puller...

Quinetics website (high primers)

https://www.quineticscorp.com/produc...-bullet-puller

ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES. NOT FOR USE with rim fire cartridges, black powder cartridges, explosive projectile ammo or ammunition with high primers. The patented Ultimate Kinetic Bullet Puller will accommodate .22 Hornet through .45-70 and .50 Action Express. Will not accommodate WSM cartridges.

[101combatvet]

I have one, but I don't use it on hard surfaces. I'll hit it on a thin rug or some stacked paper; a magazine will work.

[Big_Eight]

Originally Posted by tangolima

From the product description.

"ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES. NOT FOR USE with rim fire cartridges, black powder cartridges, explosive projectile ammo or ammunition with high primers."

-TL

P.S. I don't mean to be argumentative. I just googled the topic. There are plenty of detonation incidents with the factory 3-piece collet. Some even claimed a shell holder was safer. I myself don't think it has much to do with the collet or the shell holder. Perhaps it is an intrinsic risk associated with impact puller. Well that rekindles my interest of getting a puller die.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

I have an RCBS puller die that I use in my single stage Lee Press and love it. No hammering and I've never had a problem pulling bullets. In my opinion it's a great tool.

Jake

[Unkl Chuck]

I've used an inertia puller over 30 years with no problems. I use the anvil on the big vise a strike point, when I'm using the inertia puller. I think they are safe and reliable when used as intended.
That said, I only use the inertia puller for 1 or 2 rounds, for a more substantial session, I'll pull out the collet puller.

[Unclenick]

I looked into some of the online detonation reports Tangolima mentioned, and they make it appear there are at least a couple of mechanisms. Several mention the shell holder substitution but a good bit of the discussion had to do with loose primer pockets, suggesting the snap-back of the plastic barrel is fast enough to cause a primer's own tiny inertia to set it off in a loose pocket, wherein the floor of the primer pocket would snap back against the anvil of the primer rapidly enough to cause ignition. This included a couple of cases where the primer flew out of the hole in the cap, but the powder in the case was not ignited, so the primer launched itself without being held hard enough by the walls of the primer pocket to force much heat and pressure through the flash hole. Interesting stuff. I am appreciating my Hornady Cam Lock more and more, even if I do have to invest in a different collet for each new bullet diameter I want to pull.

Just to clarify my previous post, here's an image of a Hornady shell holder which has a recessed channel for high primers, making it hard to imagine an overlap with the primer would set it off. But here's a Redding shell holder with no high primer channel cut into it. They just make the whole rim cut taller to allow for high primers that need to be slipped in and out. This would present an ignition issue in the inertial puller with overlap and a high primer.

[hounddawg]

considering the construction of a primer, I seriously doubt any overlap would cause detonation. The anvil separating from the material and rebounding in a high set primer maybe. Considering the tens of thousands if not millions of rounds that are pulled each year, the risk is minimal in my opinion.

All of my primers get seated firmly and the cap tightened firmly on the puller so there can be no overlap however in the future just to be safe I will double check when using a inertial puller, That seems to be the main issue to watch for

[Unclenick]

As one of my photos shows, with a loose cap you can get almost 50% overlap, so you are right in the middle of the primer. With the Redding shell holder design, that would be an issue. I tried to find a 45 case I hadn't decapped that had been fired in my old Goldcup, but I'll have to shoot another. The firing pin hits just about exactly in the middle of a radius, halfway between the perimeter and the center of the primer. But it has never had a misfire that I can recall.