Maker Bullets

Magnum SRT8 · April 11, 2022, 11:46 AM

Reloading help needed badly

MAKER BULLETS
Product ID 30811030Carbine
Manufacturer Makerammo LLc
SKU 308-110g-30Car-REX
110 Grain 30 Cal Carbine Expanding Bullets (Box Qty - 50)

https://makerbullets.com/products.php?cat=3&pg=2

I have reloaded countless 30 Carbine rounds over the years. Hornady FMJ, & Short Jacket, Speer Plinkers, Plated, Cast, Coated, ect. My usual powders are H-110 and IMR 4227. My issue the Maker Bullets are much longer than standard bullets because of the absence of lead. I am concerned with the lack of case capacity with this bullet seated. I, well, let say not in the mood for a catastrophic over pressure event. Any help or guidance regarding this or any all copper projectiles would be greatly appreciated

ballardw · April 11, 2022, 02:54 PM

Their webiste has "ask a question" on the product page. Ask them about overall length and powder suggestions.

tangolima · April 12, 2022, 03:59 AM

.30 carbine is tricky to load. It has very limited bullet selection, not because of weight, but rather ogive profile. It must stay below certain overall length, in order to fit in the magazine. It is headspaced by mouth, so brass can't be shortened. These 2 requirements put together, the bullet must have stout ogive, almost like round nose. Almost none of the pointed, high-BC bullets work.

I highly doubt the lead free bullets in the link will work. You should get some samples to try.

If they fit, your concern about brass capacity becomes a real concern. The general direction is to work up the load. Question is where to start. I myself have several ways to determine a safe starting loads. For obvious reason, I don't want to disclose them, other than the superficial ones with heavy disclaimers - I am telling you what I would do, not what you should do. I would use simulation software, such as QuickLoad or GRT.

BTW, those bullets are more than $0.50 a round. It is a bit of a overkill for .30 carbine, is it not?

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Magnum SRT8 · April 18, 2022, 05:31 AM

I completely agree with every single one of your statements. 30 Carbine can be tricky. You should see how much fun it is to load this cartridge for the Ruger Blackhawk. The length has to be absolutely perfect. As you stated the round chambers off the case mouth. If it is a few thousands too long, it will not allow the cylinder to rotate. If it is a few thousandths too short the firing pin light strikes the primer.

I own a copy of Quick Load. Just like you posted that you are leery of posting load data, I am a little concerned about trusting the formulas of somebody's program.

I agree that the bullets are very expensive. The reason I'm looking into using them is that my wife is very petite. She is an amazing shooter provided she's shooting the Carbine. She has Muscular Dystrophy and therefore can't run an AR-15. She can run the hell out of the little 5 lb wonder from World War II. I wish to load, test, and retest, a bullet with exceptional terminal ballistics. This bullet has insane terminal ballistics. I have tested bullets from this company in .308, 30-06,
ect. I even went to the length of loading this exact bullet for my 1903 Springfield. I used my chronograph to ensure the velocities matched what they would be out of an M1 carbine. They work incredibly in both Clear Ballistics Gel and standard Ballistics Gel (another hobby of mine). The reason that these bullets work so well is they make different designs based a particular cartridge and its velocities. They make a bullet design for 300 Blackout, and a different design for 30 Carbine. That's not just BS advertising, I have ordered both and they are different. If I can safely load these rounds, and do the necessary testing, they will be loaded for defensive purposes. Hopefully we will never need them for the intended purpose. I have no plans just shoot these bullets for target practice only. You are right they're way too expensive.

tangolima · April 18, 2022, 10:04 AM

.30 carbine has "potency" similar to .357, so it should do ok for home defense even with FMJ bullets. There are half metal jacket (HMJ) and soft point (SP) bullets that are for hunting uses. Coated cast bullets may also do well.

I use GRT quite a bit. If you set it up correctly, it can be surprisingly accurate. I wouldn't worry too much to use it to come up with a safe starting load. Load to have 25% below max pressure is the one I would use.

I'm surprised AR15 doesn't work. It can be built really light and compact. Mini-14 or mini-30 may be good alternatives.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

**Unclenick** · April 18, 2022, 04:51 PM

CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

Welcome to the forum,

Maker doesn't have a photo of their 30-carbine bullet posted. I'm going to guess its profile will be a scaled-down version of their .458 bullets.
Generally speaking, if you reduce a powder charge in proportion to the reduction in powders space caused by seating deeper, peak pressure goes down because the bullet doesn't have to move as far to double the powder space (both expansion ratio and expansion rate are increasing), plus, you make less total gas. The effects, taken together, mean you can hold the loading density constant and reduce the load safely. You just can't go the other way.

In this instance, you also have a harder bullet that will increase the start pressure. The Hornady bullet is nominally 0.675" long according to Hornady, while yours is 0.891" long. So I took the Hodgdon load for H110/296 with the Hornady bullet, and matched the loading density with your Maker bullet seated to 1.680" COL and using 6525 psi start pressure and found it still below what the Hodgdon load's pressure predicts to be.

I don't know how that load will shoot, but I was able to increase the loading density to 100% with the long bullet and still be lower in pressure than the Hodgdon load is in either program's model. It looks like a starting load of 11 grains and a maximum of 11.5 would behave if your new bullet is seated to 1.680" COL.

Shadow9mm · April 18, 2022, 07:46 PM

Lehigh Defense make a pretty cool looking bullet, that has great terminal performance, specifically for the 30 carbine and they have load data for it.

https://lehighdefense.com/308-calibe...e-bullets.html

Iraqveteran8888 did a video on this bullet with gel testing. Gel testing at around the 3:20 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4NHSMcnSd8&t=273s

**Unclenick** · April 19, 2022, 10:11 AM

The LD bullet is interesting because, despite being solid copper, its length is just 0.690. The Maker is 0.891", so it would seat about 0.2" deeper at the same COL, which is why it would need a lower charge than the LD.

HiBC · April 19, 2022, 03:39 PM

I will not tell you what you should provide for your loved ones.

I gave my Daughter an M-1 Carbine and a supply of Hornady Critical Defense ammo.

If I were in a dire situation where I had to defend myself, I'd feel well armed with an M-1 Carbine loaded with any 110 gr soft point factory load. That might be Remington,Winchester,Federal,Hornady,Norma,etc. I would not count out loadings by Buffalo Bore,etc.

You might find some gel test info at Lucky Gunner.

IMO,first and foremost would be proven,reliable function. IMO,that will LIKELY be found somewhere near the center of the window of the ammo the gun was designed to shoot. Thats a 110 gr roundish nose bullet at approx 2000 fps.

One potential problem ,for example,with an "outside the box" bullet might be the what , .891 vs .675 length? There is problem that COULD crop up seating .200 + deeper. I don't know the interior geometry of the 30 Carbine case, but at some point the case walls taper to become thicker/stronger. Pushing a bullet in .200 deeper than normal MAY cause the outside diameter of the loaded ammo to increase. I admit,I don't KNOW it will be a problem. Re-inventing the wheel loading reliable self defense ammo takes a significant amount of test firing. I can't give you a number, but its reasonable to think in terms of "hundreds" without a malfunction.

A consideration with M-1 Carbines is the magazines. Others may disagree,but the 30 rounders can be more prone to malfunction. I suggest the 15 s. There are quality 15 rd mags,junk 15 rd mags,and worn out 15 round mags.
Be sure you have reliable ,tested, identified mags .

Shadow9mm · April 19, 2022, 03:56 PM

I would echo that on the mags. I had some quality 30s, and they did not feed relably 100% of the time. 15s were 100% but i had to get new mag springs for some of the vintage ones. Test the mags make sure they are ready to go.

April 11, 2022, 11:46 AM	#1
Magnum SRT8 Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 2022 Posts: 2	Maker Bullets Reloading help needed badly MAKER BULLETS Product ID 30811030Carbine Manufacturer Makerammo LLc SKU 308-110g-30Car-REX 110 Grain 30 Cal Carbine Expanding Bullets (Box Qty - 50) https://makerbullets.com/products.php?cat=3&pg=2 I have reloaded countless 30 Carbine rounds over the years. Hornady FMJ, & Short Jacket, Speer Plinkers, Plated, Cast, Coated, ect. My usual powders are H-110 and IMR 4227. My issue the Maker Bullets are much longer than standard bullets because of the absence of lead. I am concerned with the lack of case capacity with this bullet seated. I, well, let say not in the mood for a catastrophic over pressure event. Any help or guidance regarding this or any all copper projectiles would be greatly appreciated

April 11, 2022, 02:54 PM	#2
ballardw Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 1,415	Their webiste has "ask a question" on the product page. Ask them about overall length and powder suggestions. __________________ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ All data is flawed, some just less so.

April 18, 2022, 04:51 PM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information. Welcome to the forum, Maker doesn't have a photo of their 30-carbine bullet posted. I'm going to guess its profile will be a scaled-down version of their .458 bullets. Generally speaking, if you reduce a powder charge in proportion to the reduction in powders space caused by seating deeper, peak pressure goes down because the bullet doesn't have to move as far to double the powder space (both expansion ratio and expansion rate are increasing), plus, you make less total gas. The effects, taken together, mean you can hold the loading density constant and reduce the load safely. You just can't go the other way. In this instance, you also have a harder bullet that will increase the start pressure. The Hornady bullet is nominally 0.675" long according to Hornady, while yours is 0.891" long. So I took the Hodgdon load for H110/296 with the Hornady bullet, and matched the loading density with your Maker bullet seated to 1.680" COL and using 6525 psi start pressure and found it still below what the Hodgdon load's pressure predicts to be. I don't know how that load will shoot, but I was able to increase the loading density to 100% with the long bullet and still be lower in pressure than the Hodgdon load is in either program's model. It looks like a starting load of 11 grains and a maximum of 11.5 would behave if your new bullet is seated to 1.680" COL. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 18, 2022, 07:46 PM	#7
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,978	Lehigh Defense make a pretty cool looking bullet, that has great terminal performance, specifically for the 30 carbine and they have load data for it. https://lehighdefense.com/308-calibe...e-bullets.html Iraqveteran8888 did a video on this bullet with gel testing. Gel testing at around the 3:20 mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4NHSMcnSd8&t=273s __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

April 19, 2022, 10:11 AM	#8
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	The LD bullet is interesting because, despite being solid copper, its length is just 0.690. The Maker is 0.891", so it would seat about 0.2" deeper at the same COL, which is why it would need a lower charge than the LD. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 12, 2022, 03:59 AM	#3
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,839	.30 carbine is tricky to load. It has very limited bullet selection, not because of weight, but rather ogive profile. It must stay below certain overall length, in order to fit in the magazine. It is headspaced by mouth, so brass can't be shortened. These 2 requirements put together, the bullet must have stout ogive, almost like round nose. Almost none of the pointed, high-BC bullets work. I highly doubt the lead free bullets in the link will work. You should get some samples to try. If they fit, your concern about brass capacity becomes a real concern. The general direction is to work up the load. Question is where to start. I myself have several ways to determine a safe starting loads. For obvious reason, I don't want to disclose them, other than the superficial ones with heavy disclaimers - I am telling you what I would do, not what you should do. I would use simulation software, such as QuickLoad or GRT. BTW, those bullets are more than $0.50 a round. It is a bit of a overkill for .30 carbine, is it not? -TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

April 18, 2022, 05:31 AM	#4
Magnum SRT8 Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 2022 Posts: 2	I completely agree with every single one of your statements. 30 Carbine can be tricky. You should see how much fun it is to load this cartridge for the Ruger Blackhawk. The length has to be absolutely perfect. As you stated the round chambers off the case mouth. If it is a few thousands too long, it will not allow the cylinder to rotate. If it is a few thousandths too short the firing pin light strikes the primer. I own a copy of Quick Load. Just like you posted that you are leery of posting load data, I am a little concerned about trusting the formulas of somebody's program. I agree that the bullets are very expensive. The reason I'm looking into using them is that my wife is very petite. She is an amazing shooter provided she's shooting the Carbine. She has Muscular Dystrophy and therefore can't run an AR-15. She can run the hell out of the little 5 lb wonder from World War II. I wish to load, test, and retest, a bullet with exceptional terminal ballistics. This bullet has insane terminal ballistics. I have tested bullets from this company in .308, 30-06, ect. I even went to the length of loading this exact bullet for my 1903 Springfield. I used my chronograph to ensure the velocities matched what they would be out of an M1 carbine. They work incredibly in both Clear Ballistics Gel and standard Ballistics Gel (another hobby of mine). The reason that these bullets work so well is they make different designs based a particular cartridge and its velocities. They make a bullet design for 300 Blackout, and a different design for 30 Carbine. That's not just BS advertising, I have ordered both and they are different. If I can safely load these rounds, and do the necessary testing, they will be loaded for defensive purposes. Hopefully we will never need them for the intended purpose. I have no plans just shoot these bullets for target practice only. You are right they're way too expensive.

April 18, 2022, 10:04 AM	#5
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,839	.30 carbine has "potency" similar to .357, so it should do ok for home defense even with FMJ bullets. There are half metal jacket (HMJ) and soft point (SP) bullets that are for hunting uses. Coated cast bullets may also do well. I use GRT quite a bit. If you set it up correctly, it can be surprisingly accurate. I wouldn't worry too much to use it to come up with a safe starting load. Load to have 25% below max pressure is the one I would use. I'm surprised AR15 doesn't work. It can be built really light and compact. Mini-14 or mini-30 may be good alternatives. -TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

April 19, 2022, 03:39 PM	#9
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,289	I will not tell you what you should provide for your loved ones. I gave my Daughter an M-1 Carbine and a supply of Hornady Critical Defense ammo. If I were in a dire situation where I had to defend myself, I'd feel well armed with an M-1 Carbine loaded with any 110 gr soft point factory load. That might be Remington,Winchester,Federal,Hornady,Norma,etc. I would not count out loadings by Buffalo Bore,etc. You might find some gel test info at Lucky Gunner. IMO,first and foremost would be proven,reliable function. IMO,that will LIKELY be found somewhere near the center of the window of the ammo the gun was designed to shoot. Thats a 110 gr roundish nose bullet at approx 2000 fps. One potential problem ,for example,with an "outside the box" bullet might be the what , .891 vs .675 length? There is problem that COULD crop up seating .200 + deeper. I don't know the interior geometry of the 30 Carbine case, but at some point the case walls taper to become thicker/stronger. Pushing a bullet in .200 deeper than normal MAY cause the outside diameter of the loaded ammo to increase. I admit,I don't KNOW it will be a problem. Re-inventing the wheel loading reliable self defense ammo takes a significant amount of test firing. I can't give you a number, but its reasonable to think in terms of "hundreds" without a malfunction. A consideration with M-1 Carbines is the magazines. Others may disagree,but the 30 rounders can be more prone to malfunction. I suggest the 15 s. There are quality 15 rd mags,junk 15 rd mags,and worn out 15 round mags. Be sure you have reliable ,tested, identified mags . Last edited by HiBC; April 19, 2022 at 03:46 PM.

April 19, 2022, 03:56 PM	#10
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,978	I would echo that on the mags. I had some quality 30s, and they did not feed relably 100% of the time. 15s were 100% but i had to get new mag springs for some of the vintage ones. Test the mags make sure they are ready to go. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.