How to bed a rifle.

[rc]

I bedded the forend and the tang on my Ruger 77 but the accuracy isn't that great. I was wondering if there was anyone who has also bedded the first few inches of barrel rather than receiver? What are your thoughts? With the square receiver profile I don't want to accidentally lock my action to my stock. rc

[Bart B.]

Bedding only the receiver and totally free floating barrels has proven best for decades. That allows different amounts of external pressure that bends the fore end to not interfere with the barrel's vibration while bullets go through it. Bullet departure angle is therefore repeatable from shot to shot.

At least one sixteenth inch clearance all around the barrel. More up front with flimsy fore ends.

A very thin film of Simonize car wax on the receiver is a good release agent so Devcon plastic steel epoxy doesn't stick to it. Epoxy a sixteenth inch thick around the receiver is good with a little clearance on the bottom of the recoil lug and around the stock screws.

[T. O'Heir]

"...also bedded the first few inches of barrel..." It's normal to put bedding material out under the chamber area of the barrel. You bed the whole receiver. Not just the tang.
"...bedded the fore end..." One does not bed the whole fore end. If you put in a pressure point, it goes about an inch or so from the end of the fore end only.
Floating barrels guarantees nothing. Not all rifles like it. The only way to find out if yours does is to try it. If accuracy, really more about consistency, improves, you're done. If not, it's not difficult to put the pressure point in.

[Bart B.]

Floating barrels guarantees there's no variable external forces on the barrel that otherwise cause different bullet departure angles and amounts thereof. It's zero all the time.

This ain't college, high or grade school physics. It's kindergarten physics.

[Scorch]

I bedded the forend and the tang on my Ruger 77 but the accuracy isn't that great.

Because that's not how you do it.

It's normal to put bedding material out under the chamber area of the barrel.

I don't know any reputable gunsmiths who do it that way. I certainly don't. Heat expansion in the chamber area will change POI very quickly.

You bed the whole receiver. Not just the tang.

More specifically, you bed the receiver and not the tang.

At least one sixteenth inch clearance all around the barrel.

Yes, free floating.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by rc

I bedded the forend and the tang on my Ruger 77 but the accuracy isn't that great. I was wondering if there was anyone who has also bedded the first few inches of barrel rather than receiver? What are your thoughts? With the square receiver profile I don't want to accidentally lock my action to my stock. rc

Not being smart, but you did everything wrong.

[Bart B.]

The stock maker who stocked lots of match winning record setting high power rifles epoxy bedded the tang because of the way box magazine receivers bent vertically from recoil. The barreled action pivoting on the recoil lug put down force on the receiver and the bedded tang took away some down force the receiver rails would put on the stock by the magazine cutout. Besides, when the tang screw is torqued 40 to 60 inch pounds, the epoxy under it helps secure the receiver in place.

He did this back in the early 1960's when epoxy bedding became popular.

[Blindstitch]

Whatever you do don't skimp on the release agent.

[jmr40]

Bedding the action and free floating the barrels is usually the easiest approach. But there are some very reputable gunsmiths who prefer to full length bed both the action and barrel. They get good results too. Doing it either way seems to work as long as it is done right.

This is especially true for hunting rifles with sporter weight or lighter barrels. Melvin Forbes of NULA has always full length bedded his rifles and they are known for great accuracy.

http://newultralightarms.com/?page_id=12

In my experience bedding is most helpful with wood stocked rifles. I've had several high end synthetic stocks over the years from McMillan and Brown Precision. Some I had bedded, others I left alone. I've never noted any difference before or after bedding them.

And FWIW the angled action screw of the Ruger 77's adds another level of difficulty. Ruger advises leaving them alone. Most people who do bed them see at best no improvement and often make things worse.

[Bart B.]

Melvin Forbes of NULA states every one of his rifles is full-length bedded from the tang to the forend using the barreled action for that stock. Claims the full contact between the barrel and the stock dampens barrel vibration and increases accuracy potential.

If he epoxied the barrel to the fore end, the barrel would vibrate much less.

Haven't laughed as much after learning that since I read Winchester's claims that fluting a barrel made them stiffer.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Bart B.

Melvin Forbes of NULA states every one of his rifles is full-length bedded from the tang to the forend using the barreled action for that stock. Claims the full contact between the barrel and the stock dampens barrel vibration and increases accuracy potential.

If he epoxied the barrel to the fore end, the barrel would vibrate much less.

Haven't laughed as much after learning that since I read Winchester's claims that fluting a barrel made them stiffer.

The fluting claim was funny as written, but I always thought they actually meant weight for weight. They couldnt have been stupid enough not to mean it.

[Bart B.]

At the time, Winchester's standard and fluted barrels had the same outside profiles for given models.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Bart B.

At the time, Winchester's standard and fluted barrels had the same outside profiles for given models.

Well, maybe they were that stupid

[MZ5]

rc, is the magazine box free (rattles slightly when stock screws are tight), or is it in a bind? Mag box binding bothers Ruger 77s.

[rc]

Well the previous owners screwed up this gun by floating the barrel and not bedding anything. Shot like crap. Nothing I've done can't be reversed but now the pressure point in the stock is replaced and the gun is feeding fine. Box is not rattling loose so there may be some pressure there. I have anther 77 with a factory pressure point at the end of the stock unbedded that shoots great. The big question is what bedding works best with the Ruger rifles. The Winchester 70 and Remington 700 have round bottom receivers. If you bed ruger receivers, how and where do you put the bedding. A real mistake would be to lock the receiver in the stock.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

I haven't had the erg to bed mine yet. Although I have watched quite a few UTube video's and found all service people bedding had their own way of accomplishing. So if I were to want one of mine done. I would check out the business place comments column and ask the shop CEO for a customer reference or two whom would be open to discuss their shop satisfaction _or not. To be honest I do have nice near looking new rifles and prefer some other experienced Smith to do a bedding job. Done right the first time is #1 priority.

[Scorch]

Melvin Forbes of NULA states every one of his rifles is full-length bedded from the tang to the forend using the barreled action for that stock.

The tang on a NULA rifle is not the same as the tang on a Ruger M77. Whether it is an old M77 or a new Mark II, the recoil lug and the rear pillar are the only areas that need to be bedded, and Rugers are particularly touchy about bedding due to their design.

Haven't laughed as much after learning that since I read Winchester's claims that fluting a barrel made them stiffer.

Yeah, well, you know. The gravitational pull of the moon and the alignment of the stars puts their rifles in harmony with the universe, and other similar crapola. Gunmakers (and others) have made some really questionable claims over the years.

[MJFlores]

I've bedded tons of rifles, and a few modern muzzle loaders. I always use Brownells glass bed and do the receiver as well as the first inch of barrel....the rest I relieve the stock so the barrels floats and if it's wood I "extra" float it so moisture doesn't cause the wood to move and apply pressure. Use the brush on release on your receiver ad barrel and you wont have an issue. Take out your trigger or at least mask it off with tape...and have some modeling clay to stop bedding from where you dont want it to flow. Also, I rough things up in the stock with a dremmel where the bedding will sit..even on the aluminum blocks some stocks have. Good luck!

[FrankenMauser]

The big question is what bedding works best with the Ruger rifles

I am not a gunsmith, and don't have an "I've done it for 98 years and THIS is the what to do" answer...
But I have pillar-bedded an M77 (tang safety) and an M77 Mk II; while making sure there was no notable pressure points along the barrel channel. (The tang safety, w/ Shilen barrel, is free-floated in a standard 'red pad' stock. The Mk II, w/ modified factory barrel, is just loose fitting in a factory laminate stock.)

Both were only bedded at the recoil lug (fully bedded lugs) and tang (primarily only at, and around, the pillar).
Both responded quite nicely.

Another Mk II is on the to-do list. It shoots 'marginal', at best. If it improves, that's great. If it stays the same, there's no loss. If it gets worse, I'll add a pressure point in the fore-end and see what that does.

One thing to keep in mind with Ruger 77s: The middle action screw should not be tight unless you've found some way to pillar bed it. It should be snug, and that's about it. Any more, and you may be creating headaches for yourself.
A properly bedded Ruger will hold the trigger guard tight with the rear screw. The middle screw (front screw on the trigger guard) is just there to keep the magazine box from falling out. (Whether 'rattling' or tight, is up to you. ...I keep my mag boxes tight.)



Sidebar:
My Ruger pillar bedding only started because the 77 tang safety had an issue with the floor plate popping open under recoil (and it's only a "243"), if the two bottom metal assemblies weren't installed and torqued "just" right. Someone - possibly at the factory - had over-torqued the front action screw and crushed the stock. ...Which, on Rugers of course, pulls the floor plate away from its latch in the trigger guard.

My primary goal was just to eliminate the floor plate popping and get a hard 'return to zero', so to speak, if the action was removed from the stock. So everything would be in the right place upon reassembly.
I would be lying if I didn't say that I also wanted to be able to torque the front action screw properly, rather than going for the old, "About there might be enough, but not too much ..."

I got what I wanted, plus smaller groups and less POI shift with barrel heat. It was worth it to me.

[Don Fischer]

I don't recall ever bedding a rifle that the receiver wasn't also bedded. My idea is if you bed the receiver you cannot flex it tighting the action screw's. On one ocassion I did full length bed a barrel channel and it worked great. Haven't done that againin years. Have also bedded under the chamber and caution, it better be straight across in front. Much easier to float from the front of the action forward.

[reynolds357]

I try to avoid glass bedding. Machined aluminum block is IMO a far superior and more long term durable solution. Glass bedding degrades and weakens with shooting. When I do "glass bed" a rifle, I do it with original formula J.B. Weld and use Turtle wax hardshell wax for the release agent.

[HiBC]

I've mostly done Mausers...flar bottom receivers.They have bosses around the gurs screws.

I begin by turning up guard screw ferrules large enough to make a counterbore for that boss on both ferrules.

I tune the length to be correct for the receiver. so I get a small amount,mayb ,010,clearance with the mag box.

The stock before bedding must be inletted to accept the receiver at the proper heights and barrel channel alignment.

Leaving that intact,I open the stock guard screw holes up to accept the ferrules with epoxy clearance and room for the ferrules to find their own unstressed location.

Then I epoxy in the pillars.

Now that I have pillars to give me repeatable X.Y,and Z location, I can remove stock material to "free float" material away,every place but the pillars.

Now if I place the barreled receiver in the stock,it is located in the stock,strain free,suspended only on the pillars ,with an air gap eveywhee else.

If I want .100 clearance around the barrel channel,I can mill it out.

I use multiple layers of thick vinyl tape on the barrel.

Fill all undercuts,pockets,anything that would lock the gun in.Do a mock up assembly to make sure everything goes.

I use AccraGlass Gel because it does not run and leak.

I can apply the resin,snug up the screws,,and everything is relaxed and free to mold to the space.

When I torque my guard screws, I'm not going to crush the steel pillars.

Note two things if you are dealing with a rifle that has recoil.

Stock crossbolts prevent the slabs of stock surrounding the mag box from bowing out under recoil. Its the bowing out that splits the stock through the wood behind the recoil lug.

In addition,the mag box is part of the structure that transmits recoil energy.

The front face of the magbox should support the stock material behind the recoil lug.

Thee are spots at the rear of the mag box that will transfer recoil near the trigger mortice,and,unlike the upper tang,the lower tang has well supported wood behind it. The lower tang can transmit some recoil.

Not so with the upper tang.

And do not use the trigger guard to pull the bottom metal out of the glass.

[HiBC]

[QUOTEI try to avoid glass bedding. Machined aluminum block is IMO a far superior and more long term durable solution. Glass bedding degrades and weakens with shooting. When I do "glass bed" a rifle, I do it with original formula J.B. Weld and use Turtle wax hardshell wax for the release agent. ][/QUOTE]

Epoxies are ,or can be,engineered for a particular purpose. I'm not commenting on JB Weld. Maybe its accidentally great for bedding.

If,in my experience,my chosen bedding compound was failing me,I might question my choice.

I'm sure Brownells consulted /collaborated with the epoxy manufacturer to select an epoxy appropriate to the task.

Dexcon s a specialist in filled epoxies. I'm not too bashful to call a tech dept and ask questions.

One characteristic to be aware of is the "stacking" of the filler to become interference.

Aluminum bedding blocks can work,but beware.

There is a reason Nesika Bay wire EDM's their receivers out of pre-hard steel.

All receivers warp in heat treat. They are not re-machined.

The CNC machined bedding block will not perfectly fit a warped receiver.

The pillar and Vee block technique for a round receiver begind with surface grinding two flats on the receiver to mate to the vee-block.

I used a Hermann Schmidt vise and precision angle plate to regrind a Husky receiver floor, lug,rails,and receiver face flat and square. That gave the Lilja barrel a chance to shoot. It does pretty well.

In order for an aluminum bedding block to fit,you need to know how to use Dykem Hi-Spot and a scraper. With absolutely minimum torque on the screws,if you get 90 % blue transfer from the receiver to the bedding block,you have something.
I'm not bad mouthing bedding blocks.
I'm cautioning against unverified assumptions about fits.

You cannot assume a heat treated steel receiver remains straight,square,flat and true.

If your guard screws turn 1/4 or 1/3 turn coming up to torque,what does that tell you? Food for thought.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by HiBC

[QUOTEI try to avoid glass bedding. Machined aluminum block is IMO a far superior and more long term durable solution. Glass bedding degrades and weakens with shooting. When I do "glass bed" a rifle, I do it with original formula J.B. Weld and use Turtle wax hardshell wax for the release agent. ]

Epoxies are ,or can be,engineered for a particular purpose. I'm not commenting on JB Weld. Maybe its accidentally great for bedding.

If,in my experience,my chosen bedding compound was failing me,I might question my choice.

I'm sure Brownells consulted /collaborated with the epoxy manufacturer to select an epoxy appropriate to the task.

Dexcon s a specialist in filled epoxies. I'm not too bashful to call a tech dept and ask questions.

One characteristic to be aware of is the "stacking" of the filler to become interference.

Aluminum bedding blocks can work,but beware.

There is a reason Nesika Bay wire EDM's their receivers out of pre-hard steel.

All receivers warp in heat treat. They are not re-machined.

The CNC machined bedding block will not perfectly fit a warped receiver.

The pillar and Vee block technique for a round receiver begind with surface grinding two flats on the receiver to mate to the vee-block.

I used a Hermann Schmidt vise and precision angle plate to regrind a Husky receiver floor, lug,rails,and receiver face flat and square. That gave the Lilja barrel a chance to shoot. It does pretty well.

In order for an aluminum bedding block to fit,you need to know how to use Dykem Hi-Spot and a scraper. With absolutely minimum torque on the screws,if you get 90 % blue transfer from the receiver to the bedding block,you have something.
I'm not bad mouthing bedding blocks.
I'm cautioning against unverified assumptions about fits.

You cannot assume a heat treated steel receiver remains straight,square,flat and true.

If your guard screws turn 1/4 or 1/3 turn coming up to torque,what does that tell you? Food for thought.[/QUOTE]
But, its guaranteed a glass bedding job will break down with use.

[HiBC]

[QUOTEBut, its guaranteed a glass bedding job will break down with use. ][/QUOTE]

I have not found that to be true ,and I still have a bedding job I did over 20 years ago. The magnums have held up welll,too. I did find Micro-Bed disappointing.

Once again,without saying anything good or bad about JB Weld,I have not used it for bedding compound.

You have,and apparently it has failed you.

My Hi=Tec Specialties and Garrett AccraLite stocks are quality,light weight foam core glass.kevlar and epoxy stocks. I bedded them. The epoxy composite in the original stocks has not failes,and neither has the epoxy composite in the bedding.

How are bedding blocks set into a composite stock? My Win M-70 Laredo came with an HS Precision stock which kas a bedding block.

The bedding compound HS Precision used to set in the aluminum bedding block when the stock was made has not broken down. They just don't use release agent on the bedding block.

I don't know if it makes any difference,but they don't use JB Weld .

Another issue might be Tupperware stocks.,or,the substrate the stock is composed of.

A characteristic of plastics like polyethylene and polypropylene s that glues like epoxy just don't stick very well.

Without adhesion,the shell of bedding compound will break down