Revolver Accurizing

[44 AMP]

i gotta hand it to the ruskies though. they made a revolver where when you cocked the trigger, the cyl moved forward to engage the bbl. what a concept.

The Nagant gas seal revolver...designed by a Belgian, a concept adopted by no one else, only Czarist Russia. 1890s tech, dead end complicated design, though today it is almost "steampunk cool". Early guns were DA or SA, after the Soviets took over, they only made DA version. The ones I've seen had rough, heavy trigger pulls.
The gun loads through a loading gate, does not have a swing out cylinder, and fires a rather weak .30 caliber round used by nothing else.

Interesting concept, less than stellar execution.

[stuckinthe60s]

time to perfect it.

[44 AMP]

Possibly, but why??

[5whiskey]

I agree with the "Why?" there. I don't think it's in the realm of feasible engineering to design a revolver that both rotates the cylinder, cocks the hammer, pushes the cylinder forward to allow for brass to enter and align with the forcing cone, and then release the hammer in one trigger pull unless that trigger pull feels like dragging a sled down a set of railroad tracks.

On top of... you really don't loose much velocity between the cylinder/forcing cone gap. It's a moot issue. Case in point, I can load 125 gn .38spc with 3.8 gns of 700x. I can load a 125 gn bullet in 9mm over the same charge of 3.8 gns of 700x. I get only slightly more velocity from the 9mm, and the majority of this likely stems from the higher pressure rating of the caliber.

Also, if much was lost at the cylinder / forcing cone gap, revolvers wouldn't give extra velocity with longer barrels. But the do, so losses around the gap is not a major issue. If those losses are not a major issue, then there is no need for a rebirth of the Nagant (or at least any practical need).

[tangolima]

I handload for my nagant revolver. I did experiments with and without the seal. The difference in speed is about 15%-20%, which it quite significant.

Besides, the chamber has no throat. The brass seal, when extended under pressure, acts as the throat to take out the slop. Rounds loaded without the seal shoot lousy group.

Having said that. The idea is dead. No question about. The Soviet couldn't replace them with TT fast enough. I read it was shot SA most of time, unless during emergency.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Jim Watson]

I read it was shot SA most of time, unless during emergency.

There was even a SAO "noncom's" Nagant.

I wonder how much double action shooting was done with the early revolvers before S&W Hand Ejectors and Colt Positive Safety. Most of the early design DAs are pretty tough and I would not care to pull them unless the target were close and threatening.


There was even a spell when SA Nagants were shot in CAS because they met the bare requirement of a 19th century single action.

[stuckinthe60s]

i was thinking bbl jump and different gas pressures could be part of the issue.

[44 AMP]

I wonder how much double action shooting was done with the early revolvers...

Not very much, compared to today. There were, of course individual exceptions, and some Exhibition shooters (Ed McGivern comes to mind) were famous for it, but most people didn't shoot DA revolvers DA when they had a choice. Not even the police.

That has largely changed in the last half century or so, but prior to that, most people considered the DA feature to be "emergency use only", used when range was SHORT and you didn't have time to SA and aim, or couldn't use the sights.

Considering the early DA revolvers, that made good sense.

The idea is dead. No question about. The Soviet couldn't replace them with TT fast enough. I read it was shot SA most of time, unless during emergency.

From what I've heard, as much as they could, by the time of WWII the Soviets put Tokarevs in the hands of the "fighting troops" and the Nagants frequently went to the political officers. And that the major use of the Nagant was to put a bullet in the back of the neck of "enemies of the state".

A modern gas seal revolver?? I don't think any of the big makers would be interested, but you might pitch the idea to Chiappa, they seem to like doing things "differently".

[stuckinthe60s]

i think history shows they worked a few million times in the basement of the kremlin....lol.

[44 AMP]

Never said it didn't work, only that there are much better options available.

[jetinteriorguy]

About the only advantage to the Nagant was fitting it with a suppressor. Without the cylinder gap it worked quite well and could be used DA if needed as opposed to having to rack the slide of a semi auto for each shot. Plus you avoided the noise of ejected brass hitting any hard surfaces and making more noise. Of course I’m only regurgitating things I’ve read, I have no direct experience but it sounded plausible to me