Machining a new firing pin

davlandrum · November 6, 2007, 06:39 PM

I have been looking in vain for a firing pin for an old Mossberg .243 Even Vic, the Mossberg guru doesn't have one.

I am thinking of just taking the old one (the tip is bent) and getting one machined. Does this sound workable? What should I have it made out of?

I have no machinist skills or equipment, so would have to find someone. Not sure where to start that search....

VaFisher · November 6, 2007, 08:06 PM

Try
WWW.Brownells.com

James K · November 6, 2007, 09:46 PM

Knowing the model number would help. Mossberg didn't make many rifles for .243, so it sounds like a Model 800. If so, Gun Parts Corp (www.gunpartscorp.com) lists the firing pins for around $28, which is a lot cheaper than having one made. Also, if it is the Model 800, is it the two piece firing pin or the one-piece? Either should be easy to make.

If it is something else, try them also.

P.S. How badly is the tip bent? It is often possible to straighten a firing pin tip, with or without heat. Might not work, but worth a try.

Jim

davlandrum · November 7, 2007, 04:50 PM

Thanks guys. GunParts has the firing pin listed as "sold out", which is what it has said for the month plus I have been looking for this. I will check around the brownells sight some more when I have a chance, but they don't even list Mossberg rifles.

It is a 800B, if I remember right - I am at work, so don't have it handy to check.

HisSoldier · November 7, 2007, 06:15 PM

What's it look like? Is it a simple lathe job or does it have milled features on it?

fspic · November 7, 2007, 07:09 PM

I have a mad delusion about making a light Swede M-96 pin. Suckers are heavy and 7.125" long. Basically a simple turning job but three larger diameter discs were turned into the rear of the pin to engage cocking mechanism. Those disks are milled (or ground) flat on upper and lower side from the rear of the pin for a few inches forward. Not hard to do.

My mad plan was to make a hardened aluminum pin body with a steel striker. That would be titanium. Or the whole thing would be titanium. I can go with aluminum and steel. If the aluminum part held up for a couple thousand cocking/firings, fine. When it gets stocky I would replace it.

davlandrum · November 7, 2007, 07:33 PM

I will try to get a picture of it. I don't think it would be a terribly hard job for someone who had the equipment to do it and knew what they were doing.

Both of which exclude me...

Wildalaska · November 7, 2007, 07:54 PM

Making a firing pin is about $100

WildmustbehardenedetcAlaska ™

HisSoldier · November 7, 2007, 08:20 PM

depends on the pin I'd guess, my shop rate is $75 an hour. If it had weird milled features like a Makarov FP, assuming they weren't available, (they are, and cheap) I'd guess $100 would be pretty cheap, plus it needs heat treating.

armedandsafe · November 7, 2007, 09:00 PM

I machined pins for my old Belgian 16ga double out of drill rod. They have lasted only about 1000 rounds, so far. Cost was about $0.20 each.

Pops

HisSoldier · November 7, 2007, 10:10 PM

Armedandsafe, next time I need a Mak firing pin I'll call you, the originals are $16 each. Twenty cents sounds better.

James K · November 7, 2007, 10:57 PM

Just for the heck of it, I have to ask if you have tried Mossberg? Maybe you would have to send the rifle back, but factories often hold back parts for their own repair shop rather than selling them to the parts places.

Now, IIRC, there are two types of firing pins on the Mossberg 800. Both are in two parts, but the setup is different. The early one has a large rear section which includes the sear engagement part, and a front pin that is swaged into it. That swaging, once broken out, can't really be redone. It might be possible to drill the rear section out (it is harder than heck) and insert a new firing pin and hold it with a cross pin.

The newer type has the front of the large section and the front firing pin machined in one piece, with the sear engaging part being a short stub that is pinned on the back of the firing pin. That type could be machined all the way, just copying the original, and using the original "stub". It should be a fairly easy job, using drill rod, then hardening it when you are done. The two types are interchangeable.

So, if your firing pin has a crosspin in it, it is the second type. Note that the measurements are pretty critical; the large part acts as the firing pin stop, and its rear engages the sear, plus the firing pin itself has a taper that needs to be right. That kind of fitting is not hard, but it takes some study.

(Believe me, nowhere near as complex as making a Mauser firing pin!)

Jim

davlandrum · November 9, 2007, 12:57 PM

Jim,

Thanks for the info. I have not tried Mossberg, but will give them a call.

MrApathy · November 9, 2007, 04:57 PM

416 or 316 stainless. 316 is harder and tougher to machine but holds up better.
dont think is much in way of hardening they will work harden with use.

another place to try is www.havlinsales.com they have mossberg odds and ends can be a better place to go if numerichs and brownells dont have it.

HisSoldier · November 9, 2007, 06:17 PM

I'll agree with the harder to machine part, but 316 at 95 brinell is way softer than 416 at 265, though it does work harden. I'd not use a 300 series stainless for a firing pin, but maybe I'm missing others actual experience. I wouldn't use 416 either for that matter.

grymster2007 · November 9, 2007, 07:55 PM

Might want to use 440C. Easily machinable and heat treated to around 50 Rockwell C, should be plenty hard. Another option may be 17-4 PH. Also easily machinable and will get to at least 40 Rockwell.

**Unclenick** · November 9, 2007, 10:33 PM

I have made several out of plain old O-1 drill rod. Heat and quench; draw back at 800°F. About RC 50, as suggested before. It's not stainless, though most firing pins don't spend a lot of time exposed to the elements.

Buying one is still easiest, if possible. The original poster has no machine tools available, and filing accurately takes a lot of time. I've had to do that before, though, on odd shapes. My dad's old Stevens Walnut Hill, for one. Off axis .22 RF rectangular nosed pin.

James K · November 9, 2007, 10:45 PM

That firing pin is long and thin, with a shallow taper, pretty tricky to machine on a lathe with a conventional tool. There are a couple of ways to run that railroad, but I would have to study the job for a while.

Jim

**Unclenick** · November 9, 2007, 10:53 PM

Probably a tool post grinder job for final dimensions. That'd let them heat treat it before cutting to final dimensions, so any slight warping or distortion could be ground away. Not really a job for a beginner.

James K · November 9, 2007, 11:04 PM

Yes, Unclenick, that was pretty much what I was thinking, but I think I would try finishing it up then hardening it even at the risk of warpage. (I am pretty sure Mossberg used centerless grinding.) If that didn't work, I would go your route. You are right, that it would not be a job for a beginner, but if one had some knowledge and patience (and a good supply of drill rod) I see no reason a novice couldn't come up with a workable firing pin, especially having the original to copy.

With either type of pin, my first thought would be to see if I could drill out the rear part and then insert the firing pin itself and cross pin it. But IIRC, the rear of those pins is made by MIM or investment casting and is very hard, so that idea might be a non-starter.

Jim

grymster2007 · November 10, 2007, 12:13 AM

What's the diameter and length of this thing? Is it of a single diameter? Or multiple journals? All cylindrical or are there other features?

Starting to sound a lot cheaper to buy than make!

HisSoldier · November 10, 2007, 02:54 PM

One thing I've used on long thin parts is a female live center, machine the end the way you want it, then bump it out and use the live center for the rest. Probably not a big secret trick or anything.

Harry Bonar · November 10, 2007, 07:53 PM

Sir:
If it's round you can machine it. I'd use Oil hardening drill rod properly heat treated.

It will just take some time to look at it and develop a strategy to do the thing.
I'd machine a little at a time out of the 3 jaw, or, use an oversize piece between centers. It can be made.
Harry B.

Harry Bonar · November 10, 2007, 07:55 PM

Sir:
If it's round you can machine it. I'd use Oil hardening drill rod properly heat treated.

It will just take some time to look at it and develop a strategy to do the thing.
I'd machine a little at a time out of the 3 jaw, or, use an oversize piece between centers. It can be made.
Harry B.

P.S. I've made Mauser pins on my lathe - yea its dicey!

Wildalaska · November 10, 2007, 08:22 PM

I just pput a bag of firing pins on Auction Arms, maybe one is in there

WildhousecleaninAlaska ™

November 6, 2007, 06:39 PM	#1
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	Machining a new firing pin I have been looking in vain for a firing pin for an old Mossberg .243 Even Vic, the Mossberg guru doesn't have one. I am thinking of just taking the old one (the tip is bent) and getting one machined. Does this sound workable? What should I have it made out of? I have no machinist skills or equipment, so would have to find someone. Not sure where to start that search.... __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart

November 7, 2007, 04:50 PM	#4
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	Thanks guys. GunParts has the firing pin listed as "sold out", which is what it has said for the month plus I have been looking for this. I will check around the brownells sight some more when I have a chance, but they don't even list Mossberg rifles. It is a 800B, if I remember right - I am at work, so don't have it handy to check. __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart

November 7, 2007, 07:33 PM	#7
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	I will try to get a picture of it. I don't think it would be a terribly hard job for someone who had the equipment to do it and knew what they were doing. Both of which exclude me... __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart

November 7, 2007, 09:00 PM	#10
armedandsafe Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Location: Moses Lake WA Posts: 1,001	I machined pins for my old Belgian 16ga double out of drill rod. They have lasted only about 1000 rounds, so far. Cost was about $0.20 each. Pops __________________ Armed and Safe: Not just a theory If it time to bury them, it is time to dig them up. Remember, "Behind every blade of grass."

November 9, 2007, 12:57 PM	#13
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	Jim, Thanks for the info. I have not tried Mossberg, but will give them a call. __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart

November 6, 2007, 08:06 PM	#2
VaFisher Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2006 Posts: 596	Try WWW.Brownells.com

November 6, 2007, 09:46 PM	#3
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Knowing the model number would help. Mossberg didn't make many rifles for .243, so it sounds like a Model 800. If so, Gun Parts Corp (www.gunpartscorp.com) lists the firing pins for around $28, which is a lot cheaper than having one made. Also, if it is the Model 800, is it the two piece firing pin or the one-piece? Either should be easy to make. If it is something else, try them also. P.S. How badly is the tip bent? It is often possible to straighten a firing pin tip, with or without heat. Might not work, but worth a try. Jim

November 7, 2007, 06:15 PM	#5
HisSoldier Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2007 Location: Oregoncoast Posts: 1,793	What's it look like? Is it a simple lathe job or does it have milled features on it?

November 7, 2007, 07:09 PM	#6
fspic Junior member Join Date: October 13, 2005 Posts: 77	I have a mad delusion about making a light Swede M-96 pin. Suckers are heavy and 7.125" long. Basically a simple turning job but three larger diameter discs were turned into the rear of the pin to engage cocking mechanism. Those disks are milled (or ground) flat on upper and lower side from the rear of the pin for a few inches forward. Not hard to do. My mad plan was to make a hardened aluminum pin body with a steel striker. That would be titanium. Or the whole thing would be titanium. I can go with aluminum and steel. If the aluminum part held up for a couple thousand cocking/firings, fine. When it gets stocky I would replace it.

November 7, 2007, 07:54 PM	#8
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Making a firing pin is about $100 WildmustbehardenedetcAlaska ™

November 7, 2007, 08:20 PM	#9
HisSoldier Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2007 Location: Oregoncoast Posts: 1,793	depends on the pin I'd guess, my shop rate is $75 an hour. If it had weird milled features like a Makarov FP, assuming they weren't available, (they are, and cheap) I'd guess $100 would be pretty cheap, plus it needs heat treating.

November 7, 2007, 10:10 PM	#11
HisSoldier Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2007 Location: Oregoncoast Posts: 1,793	Armedandsafe, next time I need a Mak firing pin I'll call you, the originals are $16 each. Twenty cents sounds better.

November 7, 2007, 10:57 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Just for the heck of it, I have to ask if you have tried Mossberg? Maybe you would have to send the rifle back, but factories often hold back parts for their own repair shop rather than selling them to the parts places. Now, IIRC, there are two types of firing pins on the Mossberg 800. Both are in two parts, but the setup is different. The early one has a large rear section which includes the sear engagement part, and a front pin that is swaged into it. That swaging, once broken out, can't really be redone. It might be possible to drill the rear section out (it is harder than heck) and insert a new firing pin and hold it with a cross pin. The newer type has the front of the large section and the front firing pin machined in one piece, with the sear engaging part being a short stub that is pinned on the back of the firing pin. That type could be machined all the way, just copying the original, and using the original "stub". It should be a fairly easy job, using drill rod, then hardening it when you are done. The two types are interchangeable. So, if your firing pin has a crosspin in it, it is the second type. Note that the measurements are pretty critical; the large part acts as the firing pin stop, and its rear engages the sear, plus the firing pin itself has a taper that needs to be right. That kind of fitting is not hard, but it takes some study. (Believe me, nowhere near as complex as making a Mauser firing pin!) Jim

November 9, 2007, 04:57 PM	#14
MrApathy Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2004 Posts: 529	416 or 316 stainless. 316 is harder and tougher to machine but holds up better. dont think is much in way of hardening they will work harden with use. another place to try is www.havlinsales.com they have mossberg odds and ends can be a better place to go if numerichs and brownells dont have it. __________________ Divided and conquered, Gripped by fear Wishful thinking that it can't happen here It's well underways but nobody knows A repeat of history, That's how it goes

November 9, 2007, 06:17 PM	#15
HisSoldier Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2007 Location: Oregoncoast Posts: 1,793	I'll agree with the harder to machine part, but 316 at 95 brinell is way softer than 416 at 265, though it does work harden. I'd not use a 300 series stainless for a firing pin, but maybe I'm missing others actual experience. I wouldn't use 416 either for that matter.

November 9, 2007, 07:55 PM	#16
grymster2007 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa Posts: 2,203	Might want to use 440C. Easily machinable and heat treated to around 50 Rockwell C, should be plenty hard. Another option may be 17-4 PH. Also easily machinable and will get to at least 40 Rockwell. __________________ grym

November 9, 2007, 10:33 PM	#17
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I have made several out of plain old O-1 drill rod. Heat and quench; draw back at 800°F. About RC 50, as suggested before. It's not stainless, though most firing pins don't spend a lot of time exposed to the elements. Buying one is still easiest, if possible. The original poster has no machine tools available, and filing accurately takes a lot of time. I've had to do that before, though, on odd shapes. My dad's old Stevens Walnut Hill, for one. Off axis .22 RF rectangular nosed pin. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

November 9, 2007, 10:45 PM	#18
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	That firing pin is long and thin, with a shallow taper, pretty tricky to machine on a lathe with a conventional tool. There are a couple of ways to run that railroad, but I would have to study the job for a while. Jim

November 9, 2007, 10:53 PM	#19
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Probably a tool post grinder job for final dimensions. That'd let them heat treat it before cutting to final dimensions, so any slight warping or distortion could be ground away. Not really a job for a beginner. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

November 9, 2007, 11:04 PM	#20
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Yes, Unclenick, that was pretty much what I was thinking, but I think I would try finishing it up then hardening it even at the risk of warpage. (I am pretty sure Mossberg used centerless grinding.) If that didn't work, I would go your route. You are right, that it would not be a job for a beginner, but if one had some knowledge and patience (and a good supply of drill rod) I see no reason a novice couldn't come up with a workable firing pin, especially having the original to copy. With either type of pin, my first thought would be to see if I could drill out the rear part and then insert the firing pin itself and cross pin it. But IIRC, the rear of those pins is made by MIM or investment casting and is very hard, so that idea might be a non-starter. Jim

November 10, 2007, 12:13 AM	#21
grymster2007 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa Posts: 2,203	What's the diameter and length of this thing? Is it of a single diameter? Or multiple journals? All cylindrical or are there other features? Starting to sound a lot cheaper to buy than make! __________________ grym

November 10, 2007, 02:54 PM	#22
HisSoldier Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2007 Location: Oregoncoast Posts: 1,793	One thing I've used on long thin parts is a female live center, machine the end the way you want it, then bump it out and use the live center for the rest. Probably not a big secret trick or anything.

November 10, 2007, 07:53 PM	#23
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	pin Sir: If it's round you can machine it. I'd use Oil hardening drill rod properly heat treated. It will just take some time to look at it and develop a strategy to do the thing. I'd machine a little at a time out of the 3 jaw, or, use an oversize piece between centers. It can be made. Harry B.

November 10, 2007, 07:55 PM	#24
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	pin Sir: If it's round you can machine it. I'd use Oil hardening drill rod properly heat treated. It will just take some time to look at it and develop a strategy to do the thing. I'd machine a little at a time out of the 3 jaw, or, use an oversize piece between centers. It can be made. Harry B. P.S. I've made Mauser pins on my lathe - yea its dicey!

November 10, 2007, 08:22 PM	#25
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	I just pput a bag of firing pins on Auction Arms, maybe one is in there WildhousecleaninAlaska ™