Terminal Performance Comparison - BP vs Smokeless

[Jackal11]

I calculated terminal performance for the below projectiles out of curiosity so hopefully you will find this enjoyable to review. Usually everyone focuses on energy comparisons between Blackpowder & Smokeless but this compares terminal performance for self defense.

• Colt 1851 .36 Navy, 25gr powder (80gr Ball)
• Colt 1851 .36 Navy, 25gr powder (125gr Conical)
• Colt 1860 .44 Army, 30gr powder (141gr Ball)
• Colt 1860 .44 Army, 30gr powder (200gr Conical)
• 380ACP (102gr LRN)
• 38Spcl (158gr LRN)
• 38Spcl+P (158gr LRN)

Summary 1:
Navy versus Army
Comparing Ball vs Ball & Conical vs Conical:
Army projectiles maintain the better overall terminal performance while Navy projectiles have the deeper penetration.
Comparing Conical vs Ball:
Navy conical performs better than Army ball.
Army conical performs better than Navy ball.



Summary 2:
Black Powder versus Smokeless
Terminal performance calculators tend to provide a mixed bag of usefulness, but one could group the results in this order (1 being best):
Note: Two things to consider are:

1. 38 Special and 380ACP have modern hollow points available (which were ignored in this analysis).
2. 36 and 44 'Ball' projectiles are predicted to penetrate less than the standard 12" due to their low sectional density.

Group 1 (Best Performance):
38 Special +P LRN performs similar to 1860 44 Army Conical.
Note: 1860 44 Army leads all Group 1 performance calcs except for WLI, HITS#, and Gel Depth.

Group 2 (Mid-Performance):
38 Special LRN performs similar to 1851 36 Navy Conical.
Note: 1851 36 Navy leads all Group 2 performance calcs except for HITS#, and Gel Depth.

Group 3 (Worst Performance):
1) 1860 44 Army Ball
2) 380ACP LRN
3) 1851 36 Navy Ball
Note: 1860 44 Army leads all Group 3 performance calcs except for Gel Depth which is led by the 380ACP.


****************************************

Calculated Values:
(the details for those that care)
Below are the values used for the above summaries.

*****START ACRONYM LIST*****
*LRN: Lead Round Nose bullet
*fps: foot per second velocity
*fpe: foot-pounds of energy
*SD: Sectional Density of bullet
*PF: Power Factor
*TKOF: Taylor KO Factor
*TSP: Thornily Stopping Power
*HRSP: Hatcher Relative Stopping Power
*WLI: Wooten Lethality Index L-Factor
*HITS#: Hornady Index of Terminal Standard #
*Gel Depth: Calculated Ballistic Gel Penetration Depth (Round Nose)
*****END ACRONYM LIST*****

1)
38 Special +P, 158gr LRN, 890 fps, 278 fpe
Calculated Values:
SD: 0.177 lb/in
PF: 141
TKOF: 7.2
TSP: 34.4
HRSP: 31
WLI_L: 18
HITS#: 249
Gel Depth: 19.7 inch

2)
Colt 1860 Army (8" barrel)
.44 Cap & Conical, 200gr conical, 750 fps, 266 fpe (30gr powder)
Calculated Values:
SD: 0.139 lb/in2
PF: 150
TKOF: 9.7
TSP: 41.4
HRSP: 54
WLI_L: 16
HITS#: 208
Gel Depth: 13.0 inch

3)
Colt 1851 Navy (7.5" barrel)
.36 Cap & Conical, 125gr conical, 980 fps, 250 fpe (25gr powder)
Calculated Values:
SD: 0.127 lb/in2
PF: 123
TKOF: 6.6
TSP: 30.7
HRSP: 30
WLI_L: 13
HITS#: 156
Gel Depth: 15.6 inch

4)
.38Special, 158gr LRN, 755 fps, 200 fpe
Calculated Values:
SD: 0.177 lb/in2
PF: 119
TKOF: 6.1
TSP: 29.2
HRSP: 26
WLI_L: 13
HITS#: 211
Gel Depth: 16.7 inch

5)
Colt 1860 Army (8" barrel)
.44 C&B, 141gr ball, 820 fps, 210 fpe (30gr powder)
Calculated Values:
SD: 0.098 lb/in2
PF: 116
TKOF: 7.5
TSP: 31.9
HRSP: 42
WLI_L: 9
HITS#: 113
Gel Depth: 10.0 inch

6)
380ACP, 102gr LRN, 950fps, 204 fpe
Calculated Values:
SD: 0.101 lb/in2
PF: 97
TKOF: 5.3
TSP: 24.5
HRSP: 24
WLI_L: 8
HITS#: 98
Gel Depth: 12.0 inch

7)
Colt 1851 Navy (7.5" barrel)
.36 C&B, 80gr ball, 1100 fps, 215 fpe (25gr powder)
Calculated Values:
SD: 0.081 lb/in2
PF: 88
TKOF: 4.7
TSP: 22.1
HRSP: 22
WLI_L: 7
HITS#: 72
Gel Depth: 11.2 inch

[ofitg]

If you are interested in calculations of this kind, you might want to check out Duncan MacPherson's book, Bullet Penetration.

MacPherson was an aerospace engineer and consultant to the IWBA. The book conveys models for predicting bullet penetration, but be forewarned, the math gets "heavy duty" in places.

[rodwhaincamo]

Use a more energetic BP and you'll add around 200 fps to your figures.

I've seen a .44 cal ball penetrate well over 12" in gel.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LP_dwo2nThA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rIPazOT5M3A

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VpIVLUQ9rk8

[ofitg]

Here are some gelatin test results which were published in the Feb'98 issue of HANDGUNS magazine -

[Jackal11]

Thank you for the data!

I will try to update my Navy/Army calcs with some of your new inputs to show the difference. I would like to add the Walker data in there as well. Should be a good show, wish I had a bag of popcorn but instead I gotta find the time to tabulate the numbers.

[rodwhaincamo]

I've sent some of my 170 and 195 grn bullets out to 2 fellas who will be testing them across chronographs with my loads (by weight so they are identical).

My Remington is more accurate with them and 30 grns of 3F Olde E or T7, and my Ruger prefers 35 grns.

These are what I had Accurate make me:

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=45-170C-D.png

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=45-195C-D.png

Since these leave room in the chambers I'm thinking of making a new one around 210-225 grns, and possibly sending to Eric at Hollow Point molds along with rams to install pins so that upon loading it won't deform the cavity.