I shoot left now and a bit low ?

[Metal god]

Once upon a time I shot handguns quite well . Like many of us Ive been shooting my whole life which means decades . About a year ago I all of a sudden started shooting left . Im talking with guns that have been sighted in perfectly for years , now every hand gun goes left except my GP-100 in single action .

Since this has been going on for about a year I have tried figuring out what Im doing wrong . I’ve changed most things I can think of in multiple ways from grip , trigger finger placement to strength of grip in any number of combinations throughout this last year . Im consistent with tight-ish groups 3 to 4 inches left and 1-ish inch low at 30 to 40 feet .

I have big fat hands and gained some weight over the last couple years and my hands are even bigger now . This is my last idea of whats wrong . My thinking is I just can’t grip my handguns the same as I did 3,4,10 years ago . I can tell they don’t feel the same in hand , mostly my web area and thumb don’t seem right anymore . It seems Im going to have to relearn how to shoot from scratch again .

I used to be able to hold my own with most anyone and now I have to aim at the right edge of a 10” steel plate to hit it at 25yds .

Again this is almost every handgun including others peoples guns , this is clearly a me issue and I can’t seem to fix it on my own :-(

Any ideas ?

[JohnKSa]

Low left for a right hander usually means either anticipation/flinch and/or maybe not quite enough reach to get proper finger placement on the trigger.

Since you are not having problems with the GP100, and assuming you are still getting decent groups with it, I'm kind of inclined to think that maybe it's a trigger reach issue. The meatier a hand is, all else being equal, the less reach the fingers will have. If you think about it, adding meat to a hand is the same thing as making the grip thicker.

[jetinteriorguy]

I have this same issue with shooting smaller pistols, like carry size. To overcome this it just takes a lot of dedicated practice to relearn trigger finger placement so it becomes ingrained in muscle memory.

[HighValleyRanch]

Do your sights stay aligned when you dry fire practice?

And has this been a gradual change or all of a sudden because you stated that you gained weight over a few years and then just suddenly noticed that you are shooting left? Seems like you would have been noticing the change as your hands got thicker.

Have you tried some ball and dummy round practice to make sure it's not anticipation or flinching?

[Metal god]

Its an all of a sudden thing to me but likely was gradual. I don’t shoot a lot of pistol compared to rifle and the last 3-ish years Ive been shooting much more steel then paper . Meaning if it rings I shot true when in actuality I could have been shooting more and more left over time .

The thing that had me notice this is I bought new sights for my shield and was shooting paper to make sure it was sighted correctly . Since it is my carry gun I needed to be sure where the POI was . It was then I noticed I shot left so I adjusted the sights and noticed to have my poa meet the poi my rear sight was way off center to my bore axis which was never needed before .

So I started shooting other guns of mine that all shot left including my friends guns so its me for sure . I went ahead and moved the rear sight back closer to center and started working on grip . I thought I got it figured out several months ago but was out shooting on Friday and everything was left again . It was then I also noticed how the guns don’t feel right in my hand anymore. Fwiw Friday I was only shooting compact and micro compact pistols but my full size XD and PX4 Storm were also shooting left last time I shot them and I installed adjustable sights on the storm years ago and had that gun shooting to my exact POA . Now it shoots left .

It could be anticipation , right now I cant discount anything . It’s just weird if that’s the case cus I don’t remember having that issue before .

[L. Boscoe]

you might try some dry firing and watch the sights to see if they
move when the hammer falls. that would be a trigger pull not being straight back, which fits with your hand/grip concerns.

[Metal god]

Yeah dry firing seems like a logical next step as a few of you have suggested

[HighValleyRanch]

Do the ball and dummy drill.
You need about three mags and a few snap caps dummy rounds.

Load each of the mags with the dummy round spaced arbitrarily, i.e. in one mag load the second round, other mag, fourth round, one mag 3rd round.
Put them into a bag and shuffle them around and when you load, reach into the bag and insert into your pistol. That way, you don't know when mag has the dummy at which point. Just fire as normal and see if you flinch when you hit the dummy. It's not unusual or bad if you move after the shot has broken as much as if you anticipate and move while shot or before the shot breaks.

[jetinteriorguy]

You could put one of the laser bore sighter’s in your barrel and dry fire to see if the laser dot moves low left. Unless your like me and so shaky a laser dot is just embarrassing. All my buddies gave me so much crap when I had a laser on my pistol because how shaky I am, but I could outshoot all of them anyway so that shut them up. Ya gotta learn to work with what ya got, I just know when to pull the trigger and how to do it quickly and stay on target long enough to get the job done. Been shooting that way all my life so it just comes naturally.

[Metal god]

I’ll be headed to the range tomorrow. I will try all your suggestions and report back .

[rc]

When I was about 12 I bought the Crossman 357 CO2 revolver and that gun taught me to shoot pistols well. There aren't that many really good CO2 revolvers out there with great triggers but the Crossman series guns have very decent triggers. If you want to train between range sessions in your garage, pick up a really good CO2 pellet gun.

[DMacLeod]

You could try the penny test to confirm if it is flinching or anticipation.
Load a dummy round and rest a penny on the slide right behind the front sight.
Dry fire the weapon. If the penny stays put you are good. If it falls off the left side you are flinching.

[Metal god]

If you want to train between range sessions in your garage, pick up a really good CO2 pellet gun

I have a BB gun that is an exact replica of a P-365 . Thanks , I never considered using that as my practice gun .

[Name of One Who Uses]

It's a thing with right handed shooters, happened to me as well. Practice, practice, practice, THEN work on your follow through, which is very important.

Next time you're bored, go to Gunbroker and search through used revolvers with adjustable rear sights. It's quite amusing how many sights, especially those on large caliber revolvers, are adjusted far to the right.

[Metal god]

Im at range now , it’s absolutely trigger flinch and trigger pull .

[jar]

And you are not the only person so afflicted.

[totaldla]

I went through the same thing. I put on weight and my hands are quite large (xl gloves feel tight). I found that I had to force myself to reposition my finger on the trigger. My big fat finger was pushing the gun left. I don't think the problem was me yanking the trigger as much as the flexing of my entire index finger.

[Metal god]

I reload and made up some dumbing rounds and had my buddy load a few mags for me .

Yeah throughout the day it seemed clear it was/is a trigger pull thing rather then the flinch . There is a flinch but very small and seems consistent even when I try hard not to . However the trigger pull was an issue for sure . If I concentrated on pulling straight back with good follow through I was consistently centered on target . If I shot slow and steady I was on target and the faster I shot the more left I would shoot . Learning how to shoot again really makes for boring shooting cus I have to make an effort each trigger pull lol . I remember working on all this crap 20 years ago and it turns out it isn't exactly like riding a bike , Well maybe it is , 35+ years ago I was a pretty extreme BMX rider for the time . You know back when you crashed trying a new trick you landed on concrete not a foam pit . If I tried any of that today ..... well lets just say OUCH!!! haha

Anyways thank you all for the helping me through my denial ;-)

[PzGren]

I was a handgun coach for a few decades and assumed responsibility for cleaning and sighting the handguns in. A good number of unsuccessful shooters always told me that the gun's sights were off. My control shots proved them wrong and I made those guys sit down and shoot at a playing card from a sandbag at 25 meters. Almost all of them could hit the card after their problems with proper grip, trigger finger positioning, stance, and follow through was reduced by the solid rest on the bag.

After that experience they were more prone to listen to instructions and corrections. When I am getting new guns with adjustable sights in, I first check if the barrel is straight and that the rear sight is put back into the center before I waste any ammo when testing the gun.

[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by PzGren

I was a handgun coach for a few decades and assumed responsibility for cleaning and sighting the handguns in. A good number of unsuccessful shooters always told me that the gun's sights were off. My control shots proved them wrong and I made those guys sit down and shoot at a playing card from a sandbag at 25 meters. Almost all of them could hit the card after their problems with proper grip, trigger finger positioning, stance, and follow through was reduced by the solid rest on the bag.

After that experience they were more prone to listen to instructions and corrections. When I am getting new guns with adjustable sights in, I first check if the barrel is straight and that the rear sight is put back into the center before I waste any ammo when testing the gun.

I’ve never subscribed to this idea of adapting to the gun, unless it’s the only one you can own. I won’t keep a gun that doesn’t work for me. I own many pistols and can pick any one up and shoot it accurately without changing my particular grip, trigger pull, or sight picture. This includes several semi auto’s and revolvers ranging from .22 LR up to.41 magnum.

[NC FNS]

Astigmatism, maybe?

maybe a you developed a jerk/anticipation?