Squib

2damnold4this · May 20, 2023, 05:12 PM

Had a squib today. This is the second time for me but the first time that the bullet went far enough into the barrel for the cylinder to turn. The first time was years ago and was a reload. Today's squib was factory ammo. You can see the base of the bullet lodged in the barrel:

Skippy · May 20, 2023, 05:41 PM

Yikes. Mind sharing what the brand of ammo is?

_______________
*I'd give right arm to be ambidextrous*

2damnold4this · May 20, 2023, 06:07 PM

Ammo Incorporated 125 grain TMJ in .38 Special.

Skippy · May 20, 2023, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2damnold4this

Ammo Incorporated 125 grain TMJ in .38 Special.

You might consider sending this pic to them along with the lot number. I (personally) wouldn't shoot any more of this batch.

You're fortunate you didn't shoot another round after that. That's one thing that concerns me when I shoot rapid fire - not stopping in time.

_______________
*I'd give right arm to be ambidextrous*

Recycled bullet · May 20, 2023, 08:11 PM

Wow that's scary I am glad you did not fire the gun again into the barrel obstruction and hurt yourself!

**44 AMP** · May 21, 2023, 12:11 AM

Absolutely inform the manufacturer, ASAP!

Don't just consider it, DO IT! They NEED to know something went wrong, before they can begin to figure out a fix.

If there was no powder in your squib round, where did the powder go? Into another case, perhaps? is there a double charge waiting out there in the as yet unfired rounds of that production batch?? OR was it some mechanical flaw that prevented charging that round but all the others are ok???

If the factory doesn't even know there is a problem, it can't be fixed. Tell them what happened, where you got the ammo, lot# and any other information they ask for.

I have no personal experience with Ammo Incorporated, so can't say how they will respond. I know what I'd expect them to do. Tell them what happened and then please tell us what they did about it.

2damnold4this · May 21, 2023, 07:01 AM

I sent them a message yesterday using their contact us link on their website.

I'll let you know when I get a response.

2damnold4this · May 23, 2023, 06:06 PM

I got an Email from Rick at Ammo Inc asking apologizing for the squib and asking for the lot number and some other information. It looks like Ammo Inc is trying to do right.

2damnold4this · June 11, 2023, 08:05 AM

Just a quick update: Ammo Inc sent me a UPS return label via Email and I returned the unused cartridges, along with the empty cases to them. They refunded what I had spent on the ammunition.

MarineDad · December 5, 2023, 02:48 PM

I know this is an older thread, but had my first squib today with the same ammo - Ammo Incorporated 125 grain TMJ in .38 Special.
Did not think to take a picture, but wondering if I should go ahead and contact Ammo Incorporated.

jar · December 5, 2023, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarineDad

I know this is an older thread, but had my first squib today with the same ammo - Ammo Incorporated 125 grain TMJ in .38 Special.
Did not think to take a picture, but wondering if I should go ahead and contact Ammo Incorporated.

Absolutely contact them. They will want the lot number from the box as well.

**44 AMP** · December 5, 2023, 04:48 PM

Welcome Marine Dad!

Absolutely contact the ammo maker, and absolutely provide them with the lot # of the ammo.

This is the second squib reported on this forum from the same maker and the same ammo. The lot# of the ammo you used is very important to the trouble shooting process. It will tell the factory if the problem exists in more than one batch. If your lot# is the same as the other lot# that had a squib, whatever caused the problem in the loading process might be confined to just that one batch of ammo.

But if the lot#s are different, then the problem is something systemic, and EVERY lot of that ammo is now suspect, and by extension, until the exact cause is found, every thing they produce is under suspicion.

MarineDad · December 5, 2023, 06:54 PM

I have already contacted them and had a very fast response from Rick requesting the lot#.

Blue1 · December 25, 2023, 10:48 PM

They owe way more than a refund.

You are helping them with a potential liability issue down the road...they should have, at least, sent you a couple boxes of their best ammo for your caliber and thanked you.

V-fib · December 25, 2023, 11:55 PM

i agree with Blue1. 5 years ago I loaded up some "powderpuff rounds to practice with in my 642. They shot very nice like a 22lr. I decided to shoot some in my .357 Taurus 6.5"bbl. Before I knew what happened I stuck the first round halfway down the bbl and the second shot stuck between the cylinder and bbl. Needless to say I was very pissed at myself and nervous with what to do next. after an expensive removal my gun smith showed me the bbl and said it was slightly bulging but not enough to affect use of the Taurus, only that it may affect the value of my .357. if you removed the bullet yourself you should take your .38 to a smith for exam, and if it did bulge the bbl., that ammo company owes you a new bbl. JMHO

**44 AMP** · December 26, 2023, 01:01 PM

Generally speaking, a squib does not bulge the barrel. The barrel is rarely harmed at all from a squib.

It is the firing of another round with the squib still stuck in the barrel that damages / destroys the barrel. It is the responsibility of the shooter to see that doesn't happen.

Recycled bullet · December 26, 2023, 01:03 PM

Hey 44AMP is it possible to bulge a barrel by pounding out a squib?

**44 AMP** · December 26, 2023, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Hey 44AMP is it possible to bulge a barrel by pounding out a squib?

By hand?? I wouldn't think so. Unless maybe you are Thor.

It is possible you can drive the slug tighter against the barrel as you try to drive it out. It would depend on the bullet nose, construction and the size and construction of what you are using to drive it out.

Wood is not usually a good choice. Nor are soft metal rods, especially if considerably smaller than the bore. (regular cleaning rod, = not the best idea)

Never actually had to do it, personally, and have used a worm to pull soft lead from muzzle loaders. Different ballgame with copper slugs.

Factory ammo? I'd hit up the maker for the gunsmith's charges to repair the gun that THEIR AMMO rendered inoperable.

I would only do it myself as a last resort. Have had a couple over the years where the bullet just barely entered the barrel and stuck, those I have popped out without any trouble. If it is a full bullet length or more into the barrel, take it to a smith, let him earn his keep.

V-fib · December 27, 2023, 12:33 AM

44 amp said: "Generally speaking, a squib does not bulge the barrel. The barrel is rarely harmed at all from a squib."

With plated bullets it's a totally different situation.

44 amp said: "It is the firing of another round with the squib still stuck in the barrel that damages / destroys the barrel. It is the responsibility of the shooter to see that doesn't happen."

Thanks for the cheap shot Mr. 44 Amp. The rounds shot fine out of my snub i had no reason to believe they wouldn't shoot well out of my 6.5 bbl.

**JohnKSa** · December 27, 2023, 08:38 AM

I doubt any offense was intended. The point is that it's not really the squib that does the damage, it's firing another round into the lodged bullet. And further that the only sure way to prevent that from happening is for the shooter to detect the fired squib and stop shooting.

**44 AMP** · December 27, 2023, 03:10 PM

No offense or cheap shot was intended, and it never occurred to me that you might think so.

It doesn't matter what gun it is, if you get a squib, it is always on the shooter to recognize that and stop shooting before firing another round.

Quote:

With plated bullets it's a totally different situation.

Could you explain how a squib with a plated bullet is a totally different situation??

I don't see it.

MarineDad · December 28, 2023, 02:16 PM

Just saw on another forum where the shooter had a squib using the same Ammo Inc 125 gr. 38 special load. After some research, this company is well known for it's squib loads in 9mm also.

**44 AMP** · December 28, 2023, 05:36 PM

Sounds like an excellent reason to not purchase their ammo.

Recycled bullet · December 28, 2023, 05:59 PM

Squibs are real dangerous and they scare the heck out of me. A man in an adjacent lane fired multiple squibs into the same revolver, it is an easy mistake to make at a Loud Indoor Shooting Range. Is that even recoverable from? Does a gunsmith drill that out with a fixture? Can you heat up the barrel and melt them out or would that destroy the steel in the guns barrel and frame?

**JohnKSa** · December 28, 2023, 07:00 PM

Getting even one squib round out of a barrel can be quite a difficult process. See this thread:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=617166

If the barrel is damaged, it might be easier to just replace the barrel.

If not, it might be possible to remove the bullets, but I imagine that the 'smith would charge quite a lot for the operation and might caveat the whole deal by saying he wouldn't guarantee that the barrel would survive intact.

May 20, 2023, 05:12 PM	#1
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	Squib Had a squib today. This is the second time for me but the first time that the bullet went far enough into the barrel for the cylinder to turn. The first time was years ago and was a reload. Today's squib was factory ammo. You can see the base of the bullet lodged in the barrel:

May 21, 2023, 12:11 AM	#6
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,860	Absolutely inform the manufacturer, ASAP! Don't just consider it, DO IT! They NEED to know something went wrong, before they can begin to figure out a fix. If there was no powder in your squib round, where did the powder go? Into another case, perhaps? is there a double charge waiting out there in the as yet unfired rounds of that production batch?? OR was it some mechanical flaw that prevented charging that round but all the others are ok??? If the factory doesn't even know there is a problem, it can't be fixed. Tell them what happened, where you got the ammo, lot# and any other information they ask for. I have no personal experience with Ammo Incorporated, so can't say how they will respond. I know what I'd expect them to do. Tell them what happened and then please tell us what they did about it. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

December 5, 2023, 04:48 PM	#12
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,860	welcome to TFL Welcome Marine Dad! Absolutely contact the ammo maker, and absolutely provide them with the lot # of the ammo. This is the second squib reported on this forum from the same maker and the same ammo. The lot# of the ammo you used is very important to the trouble shooting process. It will tell the factory if the problem exists in more than one batch. If your lot# is the same as the other lot# that had a squib, whatever caused the problem in the loading process might be confined to just that one batch of ammo. But if the lot#s are different, then the problem is something systemic, and EVERY lot of that ammo is now suspect, and by extension, until the exact cause is found, every thing they produce is under suspicion. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

December 25, 2023, 11:55 PM	#15
V-fib Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 253	i agree with Blue1. 5 years ago I loaded up some "powderpuff rounds to practice with in my 642. They shot very nice like a 22lr. I decided to shoot some in my .357 Taurus 6.5"bbl. Before I knew what happened I stuck the first round halfway down the bbl and the second shot stuck between the cylinder and bbl. Needless to say I was very pissed at myself and nervous with what to do next. after an expensive removal my gun smith showed me the bbl and said it was slightly bulging but not enough to affect use of the Taurus, only that it may affect the value of my .357. if you removed the bullet yourself you should take your .38 to a smith for exam, and if it did bulge the bbl., that ammo company owes you a new bbl. JMHO __________________ Livin in the woods...feelin mighty good.

December 26, 2023, 01:01 PM	#16
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,860	Generally speaking, a squib does not bulge the barrel. The barrel is rarely harmed at all from a squib. It is the firing of another round with the squib still stuck in the barrel that damages / destroys the barrel. It is the responsibility of the shooter to see that doesn't happen. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 20, 2023, 05:41 PM	#2
Skippy Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2010 Posts: 124	Yikes. Mind sharing what the brand of ammo is? _______________ I'd give right arm to be ambidextrous

May 20, 2023, 06:07 PM	#3
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	Ammo Incorporated 125 grain TMJ in .38 Special.

May 20, 2023, 08:11 PM	#5
Recycled bullet Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2022 Posts: 342	Wow that's scary I am glad you did not fire the gun again into the barrel obstruction and hurt yourself!

May 21, 2023, 07:01 AM	#7
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	I sent them a message yesterday using their contact us link on their website. I'll let you know when I get a response.

May 23, 2023, 06:06 PM	#8
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	I got an Email from Rick at Ammo Inc asking apologizing for the squib and asking for the lot number and some other information. It looks like Ammo Inc is trying to do right.

June 11, 2023, 08:05 AM	#9
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	Just a quick update: Ammo Inc sent me a UPS return label via Email and I returned the unused cartridges, along with the empty cases to them. They refunded what I had spent on the ammunition.

December 5, 2023, 02:48 PM	#10
MarineDad Junior Member Join Date: August 24, 2012 Posts: 3	I know this is an older thread, but had my first squib today with the same ammo - Ammo Incorporated 125 grain TMJ in .38 Special. Did not think to take a picture, but wondering if I should go ahead and contact Ammo Incorporated.

December 5, 2023, 06:54 PM	#13
MarineDad Junior Member Join Date: August 24, 2012 Posts: 3	I have already contacted them and had a very fast response from Rick requesting the lot#.

December 25, 2023, 10:48 PM	#14
Blue1 Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Posts: 66	They owe way more than a refund. You are helping them with a potential liability issue down the road...they should have, at least, sent you a couple boxes of their best ammo for your caliber and thanked you.

December 26, 2023, 01:03 PM	#17
Recycled bullet Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2022 Posts: 342	Hey 44AMP is it possible to bulge a barrel by pounding out a squib?

December 27, 2023, 12:33 AM	#19
V-fib Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 253	44 amp said: "Generally speaking, a squib does not bulge the barrel. The barrel is rarely harmed at all from a squib." With plated bullets it's a totally different situation. 44 amp said: "It is the firing of another round with the squib still stuck in the barrel that damages / destroys the barrel. It is the responsibility of the shooter to see that doesn't happen." Thanks for the cheap shot Mr. 44 Amp. The rounds shot fine out of my snub i had no reason to believe they wouldn't shoot well out of my 6.5 bbl. __________________ Livin in the woods...feelin mighty good.

December 27, 2023, 08:38 AM	#20
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,994	I doubt any offense was intended. The point is that it's not really the squib that does the damage, it's firing another round into the lodged bullet. And further that the only sure way to prevent that from happening is for the shooter to detect the fired squib and stop shooting. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

December 28, 2023, 02:16 PM	#22
MarineDad Junior Member Join Date: August 24, 2012 Posts: 3	Just saw on another forum where the shooter had a squib using the same Ammo Inc 125 gr. 38 special load. After some research, this company is well known for it's squib loads in 9mm also.

December 28, 2023, 05:36 PM	#23
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,860	Sounds like an excellent reason to not purchase their ammo. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

December 28, 2023, 05:59 PM	#24
Recycled bullet Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2022 Posts: 342	Squibs are real dangerous and they scare the heck out of me. A man in an adjacent lane fired multiple squibs into the same revolver, it is an easy mistake to make at a Loud Indoor Shooting Range. Is that even recoverable from? Does a gunsmith drill that out with a fixture? Can you heat up the barrel and melt them out or would that destroy the steel in the guns barrel and frame?

December 28, 2023, 07:00 PM	#25
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,994	Getting even one squib round out of a barrel can be quite a difficult process. See this thread: https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=617166 If the barrel is damaged, it might be easier to just replace the barrel. If not, it might be possible to remove the bullets, but I imagine that the 'smith would charge quite a lot for the operation and might caveat the whole deal by saying he wouldn't guarantee that the barrel would survive intact. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?