22 mag vs 17wsm vs 22 hornet - Page 2

**44 AMP** · February 16, 2019, 01:47 PM

Perhaps 2-3% is too conservative, based on volume alone (its early for me I am just having coffee and I'm not doing that math in my head

) So shall we say 10% or so?? And I'm thinking that would be loose rounds, not in factory packaging.

If you're talking about the size difference packed in the box, the box makes more than a bit of difference. I don't have one handy to measure, but I'm thinking 50 WMR rounds in one of those lovely CCI plastic "boxes" each round in its own spot , compared to 50 Hornet in an old Winchester box, rounds packed nose up/nose down touching each other in an open cardboard "tub" is not a huge difference in size, other than one box being "taller".

Not trying to turn this into "how many Hornets can dance on the head of a pin" thing, just thinking the size difference isn't enough to be something important.
It's not like 5/56 vs 7.62NATO. Even if you're right and it is as much as 20%, how is that anything important?

There's no free lunch, you pay for performance, both with $ and physical size. The Hornet costs more, and is bigger, but you get significantly higher velocity. Is it worth it? Personal judgement call.

With the rimfire, you get what you get, once it fires the case is scrap metal, and if it doesn't shoot as well as you like in your gun, the only option is to get a different brand and see if it does better.

With the Hornet, and reloading, you can adjust the load down if desired, and all the handloading tricks to make it shoot better in your gun are possible options. Different bullets, different powders, different charges, different seating depths, etc. all these are possible reloading the Hornet, where they aren't an option at all with rimfire rounds.

Again, is that worth it? Up to you. For me, it is.

FrankenMauser · February 16, 2019, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Not trying to turn this into "how many Hornets can dance on the head of a pin" thing, just thinking the size difference isn't enough to be something important.

Same here.
Just friendly banter.

I love the Hornet. I think it's a great cartridge.
But I started with the .22 WMR and just can't convince myself that the additional 800 fps is necessary (especially now that I have multiple .223/5.56 options available - including one that only achieves about 2,600 fps, due to barrel length).
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Hornet. I just came to prefer the .22 WMR because that's what I bought first.

But, as I mentioned in my initial reply, if I were in the OP's position and intended to shoot 200+ yards fairly regularly, the Hornet would be my choice. The WMR just doesn't have the performance that I want at that range.

My mention of how much ammunition could be carried in a pocket wasn't meant to be presented as important. Rather, it was intended as a minor note for people that do such. (Yes, the intent was loose ammunition.)

When I grab my old friend, a Marlin 882SS .22 WMR used primarily as a 'walkabout' rifle, I stick a 4-round magazine in the rifle and two more magazines in a back pocket - usually 7-rounders. In a front pocket, I dump the remainder of the box of ammo.
Unimportant note about the above: The 4-round magazines are nice in the Marlins, as they sit almost flush and allow sling-carry without stabbing the person in the back, like the 7-rounders do. But once the shooting starts in situations like scattering jack rabbits, it's nice to have a 7-rounder, or two, handy.

(If I'm just out after squirrels or eatin' bunnies (cottontails, hares), I may only take two 4-rounders and just a few loose rounds for topping off; since encounters are less frequent, shots are at stationary animals, and shot opportunities are more limited.)

Just one additional note on the overall topic of the thread, since I find it funny: Cornbush, also one of my brothers, had a Marlin in .17 HMR. Fun rifle. He really enjoyed it. None of us had anything bad to say about it or the cartridge, except that ammunition was running $20+/box at the time.
But he didn't own a .17 caliber cleaning rod, jag, or brush; and accuracy was dropping off. He didn't want to buy the cleaning tools, either. So, he traded the rifle for a Bubba'd 03A3 Springfield.

Bottom Gun · February 16, 2019, 05:55 PM

My shooting buddy had a few .17 cal and a .22 hornet that I shot from time to time. I wasn’t very impressed by either cartridge. The .17 is accurate but lacks punch and the small diameter makes bore cleaning difficult. It used to be hard to find brushes and rods for the .17. I don’t know if that is still the case.

Shooting my friends .22 hornet, my thoughts were that a .223 would make a lot more sense.

My vote would be for the .22 magnum. I really like the cartridge. It’s not quite as accurate as the .17 but will shoot MOA in my rifles and hits harder than the .17 does. My buddy used to need two hits with his .17 to anchor a big jackrabbit whereas my .22 mag would put them down with one shot.

ThomasT · February 16, 2019, 07:15 PM

Easy choice for me and I made that choice way back around 1981. A few years before that an older guy told me if I liked shooting to try out a 22 magnum. A few years later I did. Walmart had a Marlin model 783 bolt action tube fed 22 mag for $115.00. So I bought it and a couple of boxes of Winchester ammo.

It was love the first time I shot it. It was a step up from the 22 I normally shot and worth the extra cost to me. In shooting small game it was almost too effective. It is not a squirrel or rabbit round. Not if you plan on eating them. I still have that first 783 and added a stainless laminated stocked 883 I found in a pawn shop for $135 OTD. I don't think they knew what they had.

I have only shot one 17RF rifle and it was OK but not something I cared to invest in. I have never shot a 22 Hornet but would consider buying one if I found a smokin' deal on one. But since I reload 223 I can reproduce the Hornet round. I have a very accurate H&R Handi in 223 with a 1/9 twist that would work great for Hornet sub loads. And since I have been known to carry 50 rounds of 12ga ammo when hunting a ways away from the truck on a dove hunt I don't think the weight of a load of centefire 22 ammo would be a big deal.

I agree with the idea of just having a RF round I don't have to worry about finding and keeping the brass to reload. I reload for everything else and having a decently powered round I don't have to chase brass for is a plus to me.

I really like the 22 mag ammo loaded by Armscor. I have shot a bunch of it and it shoots right along side of the Winchester 22 mag ammo. Armscor also loads 22 mag ammo for Fiocchi and they have a great reputation. I bought 4,000 rounds of Armscor from Sportsmans Guide a few years ago for $5.65 a box. You can still find it for around $6.50 a box if you shop on line.

https://www.outdoorlimited.com/rimfi...int-50-rounds/

Gulfcowboy · February 16, 2019, 08:56 PM

Thank you for all the input. After all things considered I believe I'll be going with the 22mag. Ive had one in the past and it served me well. I don't reload at present, so that puts the 22 hornet outta the equation. 17 wsm may be harder to find in the rural areas I visit.

2wheelwander · February 16, 2019, 09:28 PM

^If I did it over again FrankenMauser, I'd buy a CZ as well. Love the trigger on the Savage, but the CZ I believe would be a better rifle out of the box

Dufus · February 16, 2019, 09:49 PM

Mine is a Browning Micro A bolt. Left handed of course.

I had heard about how hard it was to load the Hornet way before I ever had one. I was naturally a little leery of loading it.

After some years under my belt with it, I have never lost a case due to a sizing or bullet seating error. I have RCBS dies and I never crimp.

I have gotten good results with the Barnes 30 gr Varmint Grenade. They will come out of the barrel at 3000+ a little. I have also used the Hornady 35 gr Vmax, but I don't care for it too much although they are as accurate as the Barnes are. I never chronographed the Hornadys.

Using small pistol primers, I can do a 10 shot group at 100 that measures 5/8" C to C. To date the longest shot I have made (not a target) was 187 yd leaning against a tree.

fourbore · February 19, 2019, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gulfcowboy

Hello out there. I'm looking some input on a new small bolt gun. I've narrowed down to three. The 22 mag, 17 wsm, and the wild card 22 hornet. Im looking for a walk about rifle. Something to put in truck when messing around in the country. Something with low recoil and low noise, and has more power than a 22lr and a 17 hmr. That can handle varmints relatively well. So anyone with experience with any or all these calibers your input would be be much appreciated. I would also factor in cost and availability.

Last line: Cost and availability. That eliminates all but the 22mag right there. why? The 22mag ammo can be found anywhere and price is right.

The hornet ammo is hard to find. AFAIK it is currently only offered in the CZ 527. An excellent gun. it is not a choice of caliber. it is a choice do you want this rifle. And then you search and pay up for ammo as compared to 22mag or 223. I do not see where the OP wants to waste a lot of time reloading when he can be shooting. I do reload 450/400, life is too short to buy a 22hornet so to have an excuse to reload! The "small" 527 is the carbine. Can you even find a 527 carbine in hornet. I doubt it. Mine is a 223.

The wsm is only available in the the savage. The savage has bad reviews. Maybe the Ruger 77/wsm is still an option. The 77 is a heavy gun or was. All I ever saw was a varmint model 77/17wsm. That is not "small". That is it, 17wsm only two guns. the 17 wsm may be on the way out or we need some guns like CZ or Ruger American to step up and build a rifle.

The 22mag is offered in untold dozens of readily available rifles? To many to list, semi auto, bolt, single shot and lever action! Ammo is an easy find and many good loads to choose from. Dozens of ammo choices with dozens of rifle choices. Bargain price gun to high end. Many "small bolt gun" The Ruger American carbine would fit the bill perfect.

FrankenMauser · February 19, 2019, 03:41 PM

The Ruger 77/17 is available in .17 WSM as a 'sporter' configuration, in addition to the varmint/target. (I believe there are also "tactical" and "compact" versions.)

Also available, or possible to find used, for .17 WSM: Browning T-bolt, Winchester 1885, Volquartsen Deluxe, Franklin Armory F17 (AR-15), Chiappa Little Badger, and more...
Someone announced a pump action rifle chambered for .17 WSM at one time. Rossi, perhaps? But I don't think it ever made it to market.

fourbore · February 19, 2019, 08:29 PM

I am interested in the TBolt. I will look into this. Huh, good info here.

SHAME SHAME, atfer wasting a heap of time. I find there is NO tbolt in `17 WSM.

huh! Bad Info on this forum.

fourbore · February 20, 2019, 05:35 PM

This piss me off so much, I have to bump this up:

SHAME SHAME, atfer wasting a heap of time. I find there is NO tbolt in `17 WSM.

huh! Bad Info on this forum.

FrankenMauser · February 21, 2019, 01:04 AM

Chill pill?
A cup of lavender tea?
A double-scoop ice cream cone?

Or perhaps the 2013 Browning catalog?...

ThomasT · February 21, 2019, 04:58 PM

I think Henry at one time offered a 17HMR in a pump rifle but now all they show is a 22 mag. It must not have sold well.

gwpercle · February 22, 2019, 01:56 PM

If you reload...The Hornet

If you don't reload ... I would choose the 22 Magnum . Easier to find ammo for it in my neck of the woods. 17 wsm is not a big seller..low demand = not every store stocks it.

Might be a good time to think reloading... a little Lee hand press and a set of 22 Hornet dies will put you in ammo business...no worry about what a store stocks !
Gary

February 16, 2019, 01:47 PM	#26
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 30,487	Perhaps 2-3% is too conservative, based on volume alone (its early for me I am just having coffee and I'm not doing that math in my head ) So shall we say 10% or so?? And I'm thinking that would be loose rounds, not in factory packaging. If you're talking about the size difference packed in the box, the box makes more than a bit of difference. I don't have one handy to measure, but I'm thinking 50 WMR rounds in one of those lovely CCI plastic "boxes" each round in its own spot , compared to 50 Hornet in an old Winchester box, rounds packed nose up/nose down touching each other in an open cardboard "tub" is not a huge difference in size, other than one box being "taller". Not trying to turn this into "how many Hornets can dance on the head of a pin" thing, just thinking the size difference isn't enough to be something important. It's not like 5/56 vs 7.62NATO. Even if you're right and it is as much as 20%, how is that anything important? There's no free lunch, you pay for performance, both with $ and physical size. The Hornet costs more, and is bigger, but you get significantly higher velocity. Is it worth it? Personal judgement call. With the rimfire, you get what you get, once it fires the case is scrap metal, and if it doesn't shoot as well as you like in your gun, the only option is to get a different brand and see if it does better. With the Hornet, and reloading, you can adjust the load down if desired, and all the handloading tricks to make it shoot better in your gun are possible options. Different bullets, different powders, different charges, different seating depths, etc. all these are possible reloading the Hornet, where they aren't an option at all with rimfire rounds. Again, is that worth it? Up to you. For me, it is. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 16, 2019, 05:55 PM	#28
Bottom Gun Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 1,092	My shooting buddy had a few .17 cal and a .22 hornet that I shot from time to time. I wasn’t very impressed by either cartridge. The .17 is accurate but lacks punch and the small diameter makes bore cleaning difficult. It used to be hard to find brushes and rods for the .17. I don’t know if that is still the case. Shooting my friends .22 hornet, my thoughts were that a .223 would make a lot more sense. My vote would be for the .22 magnum. I really like the cartridge. It’s not quite as accurate as the .17 but will shoot MOA in my rifles and hits harder than the .17 does. My buddy used to need two hits with his .17 to anchor a big jackrabbit whereas my .22 mag would put them down with one shot. __________________ NRA Life Member Mechanical engineers have their moments.

February 16, 2019, 07:15 PM	#29
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,773	Easy choice for me and I made that choice way back around 1981. A few years before that an older guy told me if I liked shooting to try out a 22 magnum. A few years later I did. Walmart had a Marlin model 783 bolt action tube fed 22 mag for $115.00. So I bought it and a couple of boxes of Winchester ammo. It was love the first time I shot it. It was a step up from the 22 I normally shot and worth the extra cost to me. In shooting small game it was almost too effective. It is not a squirrel or rabbit round. Not if you plan on eating them. I still have that first 783 and added a stainless laminated stocked 883 I found in a pawn shop for $135 OTD. I don't think they knew what they had. I have only shot one 17RF rifle and it was OK but not something I cared to invest in. I have never shot a 22 Hornet but would consider buying one if I found a smokin' deal on one. But since I reload 223 I can reproduce the Hornet round. I have a very accurate H&R Handi in 223 with a 1/9 twist that would work great for Hornet sub loads. And since I have been known to carry 50 rounds of 12ga ammo when hunting a ways away from the truck on a dove hunt I don't think the weight of a load of centefire 22 ammo would be a big deal. I agree with the idea of just having a RF round I don't have to worry about finding and keeping the brass to reload. I reload for everything else and having a decently powered round I don't have to chase brass for is a plus to me. I really like the 22 mag ammo loaded by Armscor. I have shot a bunch of it and it shoots right along side of the Winchester 22 mag ammo. Armscor also loads 22 mag ammo for Fiocchi and they have a great reputation. I bought 4,000 rounds of Armscor from Sportsmans Guide a few years ago for $5.65 a box. You can still find it for around $6.50 a box if you shop on line. https://www.outdoorlimited.com/rimfi...int-50-rounds/ Last edited by ThomasT; February 16, 2019 at 07:20 PM.

February 19, 2019, 03:41 PM	#34
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,776	The Ruger 77/17 is available in .17 WSM as a 'sporter' configuration, in addition to the varmint/target. (I believe there are also "tactical" and "compact" versions.) Also available, or possible to find used, for .17 WSM: Browning T-bolt, Winchester 1885, Volquartsen Deluxe, Franklin Armory F17 (AR-15), Chiappa Little Badger, and more... Someone announced a pump action rifle chambered for .17 WSM at one time. Rossi, perhaps? But I don't think it ever made it to market. __________________ -Unwilling Range Officer -Unwilling Match Designer -NRL22/PRS22/PRO -Something about broccoli and carrots

February 19, 2019, 08:29 PM	#35
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	I am interested in the TBolt. I will look into this. Huh, good info here. SHAME SHAME, atfer wasting a heap of time. I find there is NO tbolt in `17 WSM. huh! Bad Info on this forum. Last edited by fourbore; February 20, 2019 at 05:34 PM.

February 16, 2019, 08:56 PM	#30
Gulfcowboy Member Join Date: January 27, 2019 Location: South Texas Posts: 99	Thank you for all the input. After all things considered I believe I'll be going with the 22mag. Ive had one in the past and it served me well. I don't reload at present, so that puts the 22 hornet outta the equation. 17 wsm may be harder to find in the rural areas I visit.

February 16, 2019, 09:28 PM	#31
2wheelwander Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2018 Posts: 626	^If I did it over again FrankenMauser, I'd buy a CZ as well. Love the trigger on the Savage, but the CZ I believe would be a better rifle out of the box

February 16, 2019, 09:49 PM	#32
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,967	Mine is a Browning Micro A bolt. Left handed of course. I had heard about how hard it was to load the Hornet way before I ever had one. I was naturally a little leery of loading it. After some years under my belt with it, I have never lost a case due to a sizing or bullet seating error. I have RCBS dies and I never crimp. I have gotten good results with the Barnes 30 gr Varmint Grenade. They will come out of the barrel at 3000+ a little. I have also used the Hornady 35 gr Vmax, but I don't care for it too much although they are as accurate as the Barnes are. I never chronographed the Hornadys. Using small pistol primers, I can do a 10 shot group at 100 that measures 5/8" C to C. To date the longest shot I have made (not a target) was 187 yd leaning against a tree.

February 20, 2019, 05:35 PM	#36
fourbore Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2015 Location: new england Posts: 1,159	This piss me off so much, I have to bump this up: SHAME SHAME, atfer wasting a heap of time. I find there is NO tbolt in `17 WSM. huh! Bad Info on this forum.

February 21, 2019, 01:04 AM	#37
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,776	Chill pill? A cup of lavender tea? A double-scoop ice cream cone? Or perhaps the 2013 Browning catalog?... __________________ -Unwilling Range Officer -Unwilling Match Designer -NRL22/PRS22/PRO -Something about broccoli and carrots

February 21, 2019, 04:58 PM	#38
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,773	I think Henry at one time offered a 17HMR in a pump rifle but now all they show is a 22 mag. It must not have sold well.

February 22, 2019, 01:56 PM	#39
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,915	If you reload...The Hornet If you don't reload ... I would choose the 22 Magnum . Easier to find ammo for it in my neck of the woods. 17 wsm is not a big seller..low demand = not every store stocks it. Might be a good time to think reloading... a little Lee hand press and a set of 22 Hornet dies will put you in ammo business...no worry about what a store stocks ! Gary