Why does Remington mock me with their brass?

[marks655]

The last Remington 6.5x55 swede cases I purchased would not chamber unless full-resized before loading. I have since gone to Lapua.

Remington 444 Marlin brass have been excellent.

I just bought some Starline 45-70. Looks nice but have not loaded any yet. Does anyone have an opinion on Starline rifle brass?

[Scorch]

C'mon, folks. Brass is produced in a factory on a production machine, saw cut for final length, and then drops into a box. That gets dumped unceremoniously into a tumbler to deburr it. It gets weighed and bagged. If Remington went to the trouble making brass that many of you do, it would cost $5 per cartridge case.

What I do (not right or wrong):
1- Run through the sizer
2- Trim to length
3- Chamfer and deburr
4- Deburr the flash hole
5- Load
6- Fire
Repeat steps 1 through 6 as needed.

[Acerdog]

You might try this shop out the owner is a real dillon fan but prices are good
http://christensenreloading.com

[Bamashooter]

I have loaded alot of remington brass over the years and I havent ever seen anything like what you showed us. Maybe it wasnt remingtons fault. From the time it leaves the factory until the time you get it there is no telling what happened to it. Im not saying remington is perfect but I really like their brass.

[FrankenMauser]

As for the Hornady .44 Rem Mag....

On closer inspection, I this box of brass seems to be a mixture from two separate lots. About 40% of the brass is beautiful, and perfectly usable. It's the remaining 60% that was bad.

Of the bad brass, about 50% has off-center flash holes and oblong primer pockets. The other 50% has horribly off-center flash holes, clearly double-struck primer pockets, and galling/burrs in the primer pockets.

Many of the cases actually have off-center flash holes, AND off-center primer pockets.

This brass is so shiny... I had an incredibly difficult time trying to get the lighting, camera, reflections, shadows, and detail balanced. I had to settle on these two images. I just couldn't get the details to show up, with all the reflected light.


"Bad" brass with oblong primer pockets and off-center flash holes:
The crescent-shaped mark on the edge of the primer pocket is secondary damage of some kind. These primer pockets are oval, ignoring that imprint.


"Bad" brass with double-struck primer pocket, off-center flash hole, and visible galling/burrs:


Same photo as above, with outlines showing the two strikes for the flash hole, and galling/burrs (arrow) in the primer pocket. (The damage is worse than this photo shows.) Compare the blue and red circles to the image above.



If this was Magtech brass, for $18 / 100 pieces; I wouldn't care. But with the price of Hornady brass, their claims of excellence, and the reputation this brass has earned... I expected better.

I'll see what Hornady has to say on Monday.

I must ask again, though:
Are my standards and expectations too high?

Am I justified in thinking this quality level is unacceptable?

[m&p45acp10+1]

I am sure with the pictures you took Hornady will make it right. I use a lot of Hornady .223 Rem brass, but all of it is range pick up. So far all of the cases I have picked up, and prepped have been outstanding.

For Remington brass I have R-P I bought new for .221 Fireball that I am still using. I have trimmed them once, and have well over 20 reloads out of them. Had a few spilt, but the other 290 of them are still just fine.

[Sevens]

If I were in management at Hornady, I'd fly a black stealth chopper to your house and drop a Delta team in there and steal your camera, computer and put duct-tape over your mouth!

Either that, or I'd bust my hump trying to figure out HOW that brass got out... and I'd print out your entire post and I'd print out those pictures, blow them up nice and large on glossy photo paper and I'd address the whole company staff with all of it, making big posters to hang in the facility as a prime example of what NOT to do and how the word can spread.

Hornady would be off their rocker if they didn't respond to your comments and pictures.

I would leave Midway completely out of it, except to tell Hornady how you got the brass. Midway has no more to do with it than the USPS does for delivering the Priority Mail box to your house that contained it.

Asking too much? Heck no, not in the slightest. That's crap brass.

I can't say "A-Merc" as easily as you dropped it earlier in the thread, but it's not Hornady quality.

[hooligan1]

Hornady's Customer Service is "Topnotch" in my book as they have dealt with and fixed any problem I have had with their products, dilligently!!! Call them!

[wingman]

I must ask again, though:
Are my standards and expectations too high?

Am I justified in thinking this quality level is unacceptable?

I believe your correct while some minor flaws may be acceptable what I've have purchased within past two years much is poor except for Laupa and they do not cover all calibers I use.

I recently purchased a box of Hornady superperformance match 223 that brass was of much better quality then Hornady bulk brass, but I find the same problems in Remington and winchester also. Honestly I believe the manufactures feel the average reloader don't care and perhaps that is correct.

[Mike Irwin]

"The crescent-shaped mark on the edge of the primer pocket is secondary damage of some kind."

I can tell you EXACTLY what that mark is, it's the damned tool head that punches the flash hole.

Notice how the flash hole AND that odd mark are both biased in the same direction? That's not an accident. The case wasn't lined up properly in the tool head.

Pure and simple.

[SwampYankee]

Hornady does have QC problems from time to time, so I'm not surprised to read about your experience with their brass. The screw holes that mount the primer feeder on my LNL AP were drilled improperly, they are 1/4" off. This causes interference between the tube and the press. If QC people (or the guy who drilled the holes) had simply popped a primer feed tube in place to check for alignment, my particular press never would have left the factory.

That said, they do have very good CS and are always helpful on the phone. I'm sure they would have sent me a new press if I sent this one back but between the weight and the hassle of shipping, it was easier to drill my own new holes...

[GeorgeSr]

The new brass I have been buying from Midwayfor many years comes with a note to run them thru the resizing die to straighten out damaged necks etc.,which comes from the factory tumbleing.

[Hawg]

I like Remington but whenever I need new brass I go to Wally World and buy loaded rounds to plink with and then reload them. I've had good luck buying Starline and Winchester 44-40 brass. The only problem which isn't really a problem is I occasionally find a Starline that wasn't necked.

[FrankenMauser]

I can tell you EXACTLY what that mark is, it's the damned tool head that punches the flash hole.

Notice how the flash hole AND that odd mark are both biased in the same direction? That's not an accident. The case wasn't lined up properly in the tool head.

I had thought the same thing, and also considered the possibility of a damaged bunter (final step for primer pocket forming, and generally the step used for imprinting the head stamp).

However.... The more I look at these cases, the more I think most of the issue comes from the primer pockets. The primer pockets seem to be farther off-center than the flash holes - in opposite directions.

[langenc]

Bigpappa and perhaps others kinda asked my question.. What does Remington think of your questions/pictures. Ask them and let us know.

[ripnbst]

I would really like to know if the mfg is willing to make this right.

[zippy13]

Unlike manufacturing and QC problems, the OP's brass may have suffered damage in transit. A common problem may be that a lot of factor brass is bagged instead of boxed.

[603Country]

Very recently I've bought Nosler and Hornady for the 223 and Norma cases for the 270. Of the 223 cases, I much prefer the Nosler. They were fully prepped and were rather tight in the weight range. Very nice. The Hornady needed some prep, but they weren't advertised as being ready to load, so no problem there. The Noslers, for whatever reason, do seem to produce smaller groups than the Hornadys. I can't explain it, since all cases were equally prepared, but there it is. As for the 270 brass from Norma, of the 100 cases, one was damaged beyond salvage and two were well out of the max/min weight range. So I got 97% usability from Norma. Except for that one bad Norma case (case mouth was ruined) I didn't see any really non-standard problems on any of the Norma, Nosler, Hornady cases. As for the cases that are being replaced, which are Winchester and Remington, I honestly have not seen anything that was worrisome. I've gotten good service from them. I will say that the 220 Swift cases from Winchester have never given me quite the accuracy that I got from Norma cases they replaced. Still, I didn't do the comparison on the same range, with the same targets, and I have gotten a bit older. So maybe it isn't the cases....

[FrankenMauser]

I will say that the 220 Swift cases from Winchester have never given me quite the accuracy that I got from Norma cases they replaced. Still, I didn't do the comparison on the same range, with the same targets, and I have gotten a bit older. So maybe it isn't the cases....

For .220 Swift, my Norma brass also gives better performance. However, it doesn't fit any standard shell holders, and is much softer than the Winchester brass I have ("W-W", "Super-X", and plain "Winchester"). Brass flows faster in the Norma brass, and primer pockets loosen before primers even hint at high pressure. But... that is limited to the .220 Swift, and those particular lots of brass. I've never had issues using Norma for other cartridges (though that experience is much more limited).

[603Country]

The RCBS Number 11 shellholder fits the 220 Swift Norma brass, or at least fits the Norma brass that I have. I've about phased that brass out, due to having shot and reloaded it maybe too many times. I have tossed a few Norma cases due to loose primer pockets, and there have been a couple of split necks, but overall they've been great. I plan to order more soon, but admittedly am not looking forward to all the prep work, so I haven't ordered yet. I'd order some from Nosler, but they don't plan to make any Swift brass. I called them to get that bad information.

[moxie]

frankenmauser,

That RP brass might have been sold as new brass, but it sure looks like range brass. Hard to imagine that it came out of Remington like that. More than likely it, if actually new, was damaged at the store or in transit. I don't think you can hold this against Remington but I strongly recommend you discuss the issue with Remington anyway. New RP .35 Whelen brass is sold by Midway and other on-line vendors where it gets high marks in reviews. Why not purchase some from them and forget the local vendors who are not giving you good service?

[FrankenMauser]

New RP .35 Whelen brass is sold by Midway and other on-line vendors where it gets high marks in reviews. Why not purchase some from them and forget the local vendors who are not giving you good service?

Midway has serious issues with properly packaging the things I order. In the last 4 years, I've only had 3 successful orders that did not require a call to customer service, to tell them how many items were destroyed. Part of it is Midway's fault; part of it is the carriers' fault.

I'll spare you the details, but... The short version is: I live in an area classified as "rural delivery" by USPS, FedEx, and UPS - even though I'm in a suburb of Salt Lake City.
Shipments are not treated well, between the shipper and my door. I cannot order fragile items, especially from companies that can't figure out how to safely pack the boxes.

I can't order brass from mail-order or online merchants, unless I know the brass is pre-packaged in its own box (such as the Hornady .44 Mag).

As you, and others, have said, the .35 Whelen brass was likely damaged in shipping. It's very common for Remington brass. The degree of this damage is far worse than usual, though. (Likely attributed to R-P .35 Whelen brass having thin necks.)


I'm not being as articulate or clear as I would like. I'll try to revisit this post, and edit it later on.

[HiBC]

I remember when Remchester new brass came in cartridge boxes.That was back when I thought I was in good shape if I had 40 rounds of brass.I recall as the bulk brass came out,in bags,we were cautioned in the fine print it may have imperfections.
Without making excuses for anyone,not so long ago we were frustrated because there was no brass.High production demands to catch up lead to quality problems escaping.Its not OK,but it does happen.
I think Hornady will be happy to make that .44 brass right.If they were unaware of this brass escape,they will be tracing lots and processes and looking for whodunit.
On Remington.....I dunno.There might be some "take it,or leave it" atitude.
My 35 Whelen was before factory brass,I used Bullseye and Cream of Wheat.
That gave me good,uniform wall necks.Expander ball necking up,seemed the stretch was localized,I'd get a thin side.
What is REALLY sad,likely,some time not long from now,these will be the good old days.Love it while you have it.

[5RWill]

I've bought 3 boxes of nosler brass and I can't say I'm disappointed. Other than 1 piece of 150 cases of brass they were all spot on. One piece had a bent in case neck, not bad enough to destroy the case. All the cases were consistent in deburring of the flashhole also which is a nice touch. Since its a thicker than remington/winchester I lose a little powder capacity, All the cases were within 1 grain of each other also. Although after reading some I'm not going to look that much into weight of brass anymore. I haven't had lapua yet but for 35$ a box for .308 I'm hard pressed to buy lapua.

[Poodleshooter]

This is why I only use hand-selected cases from the range floor!