Winchester Small Pistol Magnum Primer Probs?

fishhead1 · March 3, 2010, 06:26 PM

Had a chance to pick up some of these Winchester primers from Midway, but one of the reviewers gave them only a one star rating (out of five). Said he loaded up a box of .357's and .38 Specials with them, and the primers tended to back out after each shot such that the cylinder wouldn't rotate to the next round. Did this with both the .357's and .38's. This gave me pause to think about my purchase. Of course, by the time I decided to take a chance, they were already gone (is this nonsense ever going to end?). So was wondering if anyone here has encountered similar problems with these particular primers.

Rampant_Colt · March 3, 2010, 06:35 PM

No problems here.
W-W's new primers have a cheaper 'feel' to them, IMO, but never have backed out or caused cylinder lock-up - even using my hottest 2400 handloads

One bad online review shouldn't dissuade you from getting W-W primers

Dave Bone · March 3, 2010, 06:36 PM

I have had no bad experences with Winchester WSP's. Just finished up my supply a couple months ago. I prefer CCI's but that is just a personal preference.

I have to wonder if his loads were too hot, or a problem with the gun itself.

DiscoRacing · March 3, 2010, 06:37 PM

i use em... never had that problem

SL1 · March 3, 2010, 07:27 PM

If the other guy's primers were backing-out and tying-up the cylinder, then the loads were almost certainly too LIGHT. If they were too hot, they would smash the primer flat with the back of the case no matter how far they backed out when the primer first ignited.

I have used Winchester's old small pistol magnum primers for hot (old manual max) loads of W-296, and they worked great. That is what they were designed for. I have some new Winchester WSP standard primers, but have not tried them yet. I would not have bought them if I didn't think they would work fine.

SL1

Bluesfan · March 3, 2010, 08:46 PM

I have used wspm for years.no problems at all. Samefor wsp. Could be a problem with the other guy's brass.

Ken - Oh · March 3, 2010, 09:07 PM

I don't know about the magnums, but Winchester SP and LP have been ALL I have used for tens of thousands of rounds.

fishhead1 · March 3, 2010, 09:36 PM

Thanks for the good words. If the opportunity ever comes along again, I'll go for it!

"JJ" · March 26, 2010, 06:35 AM

Same result any way! I have a .38 and I fired some rounds my buddy loaded. I don't know the primers used in these loads. His normal primer are CCIs.
The .38 I mentioned is a Taurus model 85 so when the cylinder locked I accused the gun. After reading a few post what else could I think right!!
After a little further investigation, I found that the spent shells were causing the lock up.
I spoke to my friend who loaded the rounds & he is kind of baffled. He has been loading for 30 yrs & has never encountered this problem. Or it has never caused a problem. He collects & shoots S&W. We compared the cylinder clearance between the S&W & the Taurus & there was a viewable difference. So the same round locking up my cylinder will & has functioned fine in his gun.
So as my first post to this forum I turn to the great knowledge of the masses!!
Thanks,
JJ

m657 · March 26, 2010, 11:19 AM

No problems for me in a couple jillion rounds of wspm primers.

And I for one prefer wsp and wlp to the other brands.

**Unclenick** · March 26, 2010, 11:36 AM

JJ,

How is it locking up? If the primers are backed out, the load pressure is too low in your gun. This would be an extremely light target load. If the cylinder is jamming because the bullets are backing out until they stick out of the cylinder, then you gun is likely lighter than your friend's gun and just needs a stronger crimp in the rounds.

Fishhead1,

As discussed, that Midway complaint is not the fault of the primer, but of the load. When any center fire gun fires the primer backs out. That's because a primer is a small explosive and makes gas so fast it can't get out of the flash hole fast enough to prevent the pressure pushing the primer out backward like a small piston. That piston action also pushes the case forward, which makes the fit tight enough to jam a revolver. Normally, however, as pressure from burning powder next builds up in the case, the case head is backed up like a piston, too, which pushes it back over the primer, reseating the spent primer and loosening the jam. If a primer is sticking out and the case is still pushed forward by the original primer action after the bullet has left, then the only reasonable conclusion is the powder pressure never got high enough to drive the case back with enough force to reseat the primer.

l98ster · March 26, 2010, 11:37 AM

Not only do I use them, but I chose them after experimenting with almost every other primer out there. Now, just trying to find someone that has them in stock is another story!!!!
-George

"JJ" · March 26, 2010, 11:47 AM

Unclenick,
I, as a rookie, used the term locking up. It would better be described as binding.
Our next step is to check a bit stronger load as you said.
Thanks,
"JJ"

**Unclenick** · March 26, 2010, 11:49 AM

JJ,

Locking up or binding. Either way I think you mean the cylinder has a hard time rotating and either the light load or bullet backup from recoil can cause it. If the loads are light target loads, the former is the more likely cause. Bullets backing up requires some recoil.

"JJ" · March 26, 2010, 12:25 PM

Unclenick,
I originally thought both were possible.
The loads are 158gr SWC with 3.5 grains of Bullseye. My friend said this was sort of a middle of the road load.?
As far as the recoil issue, my snubby .38 is an Taurus 85UL model, its ligth frame packs a heafty kick for such a small caliber.
Yesterday's test round verified that it is the spent rounds primers that are causing the binding. So I am going to ask him to step up the load a bit & see what that does.
I really consider myself pretty lucky to have a reloader at my disposal!!

My apologies fishhead1, I kind of feel like I highjacked your post. But I thought it may be related.

willr · March 26, 2010, 04:06 PM

For many years, my favorite 38 spec load has been 3.5 gr Bullseye with a 158 gr RNFP plated from X-treme bullets. Have NEVER had any problem with this in either a S&W or a Ruger. All loads have been over WSP, Federal or Rem 1 1/2 primers. No difference among these loads in terms of problems.

willr

Clark · March 26, 2010, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Unclenick

Locking up or binding. Either way I think you mean the cylinder has a hard time rotating and either the light load or bullet backup from recoil can cause it. If the loads are light target loads, the former is the more likely cause. Bullets backing up requires some recoil.

I agree.
It may seem counter intuitive that backed out primers are from too light a load.

Jim243 · March 27, 2010, 12:14 AM

I have used Winchester primers for eveything EXCEPT 357 mags, always used CCI and never had a problem with the CCI.

Jim

Ozzieman · March 27, 2010, 11:54 AM

I'm prefer Federal but last year I couldn’t find any and found a good price on Win small and large. I picked up 10,000 each.
Shooting them in 9mm, 44 special and mag, 45 LC and 45acp I have been very happy and have experienced no problems in any way with Winchester primers.

March 3, 2010, 06:26 PM	#1
fishhead1 Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 134	Winchester Small Pistol Magnum Primer Probs? Had a chance to pick up some of these Winchester primers from Midway, but one of the reviewers gave them only a one star rating (out of five). Said he loaded up a box of .357's and .38 Specials with them, and the primers tended to back out after each shot such that the cylinder wouldn't rotate to the next round. Did this with both the .357's and .38's. This gave me pause to think about my purchase. Of course, by the time I decided to take a chance, they were already gone (is this nonsense ever going to end?). So was wondering if anyone here has encountered similar problems with these particular primers.

March 3, 2010, 06:35 PM	#2
Rampant_Colt Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 1,478	No problems here. W-W's new primers have a cheaper 'feel' to them, IMO, but never have backed out or caused cylinder lock-up - even using my hottest 2400 handloads One bad online review shouldn't dissuade you from getting W-W primers __________________ member of an elite paramilitary organization: Eagle Scouts

March 3, 2010, 06:36 PM	#3
Dave Bone Member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 33	I have had no bad experences with Winchester WSP's. Just finished up my supply a couple months ago. I prefer CCI's but that is just a personal preference. I have to wonder if his loads were too hot, or a problem with the gun itself. __________________ Dave NRA, NAHC, USPSA

March 3, 2010, 06:37 PM	#4
DiscoRacing Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Location: milton, wv Posts: 3,640	i use em... never had that problem __________________ Desert Eagle Alliance Group Launcher Extraordinaire ______ ----Get Busy Live'n.....Or....Get Busy Die'n......Red -------They call me Dr. Bob,,,, I have a PhD in S&W

March 3, 2010, 09:07 PM	#7
Ken - Oh Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2006 Posts: 280	I don't know about the magnums, but Winchester SP and LP have been ALL I have used for tens of thousands of rounds. __________________ "The more law-abiding people that have guns, the better off we are," Hamilton County [Cincinnati] Prosecutor Joe Deters said. "Because the bad guys always have guns, You look at these school shootings or church shootings, the ones that have been stopped, it was because someone there had a gun."

March 3, 2010, 07:27 PM	#5
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	If the other guy's primers were backing-out and tying-up the cylinder, then the loads were almost certainly too LIGHT. If they were too hot, they would smash the primer flat with the back of the case no matter how far they backed out when the primer first ignited. I have used Winchester's old small pistol magnum primers for hot (old manual max) loads of W-296, and they worked great. That is what they were designed for. I have some new Winchester WSP standard primers, but have not tried them yet. I would not have bought them if I didn't think they would work fine. SL1

March 3, 2010, 08:46 PM	#6
Bluesfan Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2009 Posts: 102	I have used wspm for years.no problems at all. Samefor wsp. Could be a problem with the other guy's brass.

March 3, 2010, 09:36 PM	#8
fishhead1 Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 134	Thanks for the good words. If the opportunity ever comes along again, I'll go for it!

March 26, 2010, 06:35 AM	#9
"JJ" Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2010 Location: NE Texas Posts: 576	Same problem? Same result any way! I have a .38 and I fired some rounds my buddy loaded. I don't know the primers used in these loads. His normal primer are CCIs. The .38 I mentioned is a Taurus model 85 so when the cylinder locked I accused the gun. After reading a few post what else could I think right!! After a little further investigation, I found that the spent shells were causing the lock up. I spoke to my friend who loaded the rounds & he is kind of baffled. He has been loading for 30 yrs & has never encountered this problem. Or it has never caused a problem. He collects & shoots S&W. We compared the cylinder clearance between the S&W & the Taurus & there was a viewable difference. So the same round locking up my cylinder will & has functioned fine in his gun. So as my first post to this forum I turn to the great knowledge of the masses!! Thanks, JJ

March 26, 2010, 11:19 AM	#10
m657 Member Join Date: November 21, 2009 Posts: 24	No problems for me in a couple jillion rounds of wspm primers. And I for one prefer wsp and wlp to the other brands.

March 26, 2010, 11:36 AM	#11
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	JJ, How is it locking up? If the primers are backed out, the load pressure is too low in your gun. This would be an extremely light target load. If the cylinder is jamming because the bullets are backing out until they stick out of the cylinder, then you gun is likely lighter than your friend's gun and just needs a stronger crimp in the rounds. Fishhead1, As discussed, that Midway complaint is not the fault of the primer, but of the load. When any center fire gun fires the primer backs out. That's because a primer is a small explosive and makes gas so fast it can't get out of the flash hole fast enough to prevent the pressure pushing the primer out backward like a small piston. That piston action also pushes the case forward, which makes the fit tight enough to jam a revolver. Normally, however, as pressure from burning powder next builds up in the case, the case head is backed up like a piston, too, which pushes it back over the primer, reseating the spent primer and loosening the jam. If a primer is sticking out and the case is still pushed forward by the original primer action after the bullet has left, then the only reasonable conclusion is the powder pressure never got high enough to drive the case back with enough force to reseat the primer. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; March 26, 2010 at 11:47 AM.

March 26, 2010, 11:37 AM	#12
l98ster Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2010 Location: Hopewell Junction, NY Posts: 454	Not only do I use them, but I chose them after experimenting with almost every other primer out there. Now, just trying to find someone that has them in stock is another story!!!! -George

March 26, 2010, 11:47 AM	#13
"JJ" Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2010 Location: NE Texas Posts: 576	Unclenick, I, as a rookie, used the term locking up. It would better be described as binding. Our next step is to check a bit stronger load as you said. Thanks, "JJ"

March 26, 2010, 11:49 AM	#14
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	JJ, Locking up or binding. Either way I think you mean the cylinder has a hard time rotating and either the light load or bullet backup from recoil can cause it. If the loads are light target loads, the former is the more likely cause. Bullets backing up requires some recoil. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

March 26, 2010, 12:25 PM	#15
"JJ" Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2010 Location: NE Texas Posts: 576	Unclenick, I originally thought both were possible. The loads are 158gr SWC with 3.5 grains of Bullseye. My friend said this was sort of a middle of the road load.? As far as the recoil issue, my snubby .38 is an Taurus 85UL model, its ligth frame packs a heafty kick for such a small caliber. Yesterday's test round verified that it is the spent rounds primers that are causing the binding. So I am going to ask him to step up the load a bit & see what that does. I really consider myself pretty lucky to have a reloader at my disposal!! My apologies fishhead1, I kind of feel like I highjacked your post. But I thought it may be related.

March 26, 2010, 04:06 PM	#16
willr Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2006 Posts: 356	For many years, my favorite 38 spec load has been 3.5 gr Bullseye with a 158 gr RNFP plated from X-treme bullets. Have NEVER had any problem with this in either a S&W or a Ruger. All loads have been over WSP, Federal or Rem 1 1/2 primers. No difference among these loads in terms of problems. willr

March 27, 2010, 12:14 AM	#18
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	I have used Winchester primers for eveything EXCEPT 357 mags, always used CCI and never had a problem with the CCI. Jim

March 27, 2010, 11:54 AM	#19
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	I'm prefer Federal but last year I couldn’t find any and found a good price on Win small and large. I picked up 10,000 each. Shooting them in 9mm, 44 special and mag, 45 LC and 45acp I have been very happy and have experienced no problems in any way with Winchester primers.