357 brass... mag vs maximum?

Clay · January 6, 2011, 08:31 AM

I'm getting ready to buy a big batch of reloading supplies and wanted to get a little bit of brass. Looking at Remington for 357 and see Mag and Maximum. I've never heard of 357 maximum. Is that just brass made for loading hot loads, or something else I shouldn't be concerned with? Thanks guys.

Don P · January 6, 2011, 08:43 AM

357 maximum is a totally different cartridge. Case length of the 357 magnum is 1.29" and the case length of the 357 maximum is 1.605"
They are NOT interchangeable.

Adamantium · January 6, 2011, 08:44 AM

I won't fit into your 357 magnum for starters. It is basically the 357 Magnum's "magnum" in the it has a lengthened case and will operate at a higher pressure, just like the 357 magnum did to the 38spl. And just like the 357 magnum/38spl the shorter lower power case will fire in the more powerful gun but not vice versa.

http://www.reloadammo.com/357max.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_Remington_Maximum

Xfire68 · January 6, 2011, 08:52 AM

The .357 MAXIMUM is what the .357 Magnum wishes it could have been!

Don't buy brass for a .357 Maximum unless you have a Danwesen .357 Maximum or a Thomson Contender in that caliber. I think there are Darrenger's in this Monster as well.

Clay · January 6, 2011, 09:03 AM

Interesting, I never knew there was such a thing. Thanks for the answers guys, nice and quick!

Jimmy10mm · January 6, 2011, 09:06 AM

I wasn't paying attention to new developments when that cartridge was introduced. Googled and found a writeup in the Wiki here that says that most revolvers in that caliber were prone to gas cutting of the top strap and factory ammo has been pretty much discontinued. Too much of a good thing I guess.

**Mike Irwin** · January 6, 2011, 09:11 AM

IIRC it came out in the late 1980s and failed pretty quickly because of the issues with gas cutting.

lashlaroe · January 6, 2011, 09:22 AM

Yes, it did fail pretty quickly, but those of us with Contenders in .357 max don't have gas cutting issues and sure wish there was factory ammo still and better sources of new brass. At least I do. It is a tack-driving round that is excellent for hunting or silhouette and one of my personal favorites.

GP100man · January 6, 2011, 07:22 PM

They make good full length shoshells for GPs

Doodlebugger45 · January 6, 2011, 07:27 PM

I reckon they would at that GP100man. But do you have to ream the chambers out to make the throats longer? My .357 mag won't let a .357 max slide in because the mouth of the longer case hits the throat.

WESHOOT2 · January 6, 2011, 10:26 PM

The cutting was 'cause folks didn't read the 'structions: USE HEAVY BULLETS.

Cutting reared its ugly head when bullet weight dropped below 170g. Real bad with 158/160s. Horrendous with 125s.

Doodlebugger45 · January 6, 2011, 11:54 PM

Yep. I remember in the 80's when I first heard about the Max. It was designed mainly for the silhouette shooters trying to knock down the rams at 200 m and were not satisfied with the .44 mag. The intent was to allow the use of 180 or 200 gr bullets at pretty fast velocities. It worked very well too. Naturally though, some folks tried to load 125 gr bullets up to rifle velocities and got severe cutting on the top straps. That isn't what really killed the .357 Max though as far as making more revolvers went. Once all the silhouette shooters had them, and then that sport kind of declined itself, there just wasn't enough of a market at that time to justify cranking them out.

Besides the Contenders, the Dan Wesson was the premier revolver made for .357 Max. But Ruger also made them in the Blackhawk. I still wish Ruger would make some more, either in the Blackhawk, or even better the Super Redhawk. As far as that goes, I wish they would make revolvers in all the SuperMag calibers. I really think the .375 SuperMag was an overlooked gem of a cartridge.

GP100man · January 7, 2011, 08:05 AM

I take the brass anneal it to prevent springback, then size it to the shoulder of a Rem 222 die , then prime , add powder , a card cut from cereal boxes , tamp it down tite , add shot #9-#10 works best, install another card with just a bit of case showing then run it into the 222 die shoulder to "roll" a little crimp ,
seal with waterproof carpenters glue .

I do not alter the chambers !!

Been thinkin of using the wax paper off of Ritz crackers to make a "wad of sorts to extend range for tree rats, it`s that time of yr. !!!

Peter M. Eick · January 8, 2011, 11:17 AM

The max is a great round for what it is. It pushes a heavy bullet at original 357 Magnum velocities with ease and can go much beyond that.

Here is one of my Maxes with a 357 round and a 357 Max round next to it. The 357 Mag is dwarfed by it.

I now have 2 revolvers, a Ruger SRM and a DW Model 40 in 357 SuperMag (that will take the Max). I have also added a 357 Max Contender.

I need a longer barrel on the contender now as the 10" just can't use the powder as well as I believe a 12" or 14 will do.

I love the max. It shoots well, reloads easily and is just plain fun. Brass is readily available from Remington and I shoot lead LaserCast heavy bullets with little or no leading problems. My favorite loads are my plinkers. 180 grn Lead TC's or SWC's running about 1550 fps. Great stuff and not stressing the gun or me.

When I get the longer barrel for the contender, I will make loads that I will not put in the revolver and see what the Max can really do!

Stick_man · January 9, 2011, 03:36 PM

The Max is one that would really shine in a lever action rifle. Using a slow burning powder and a 180-200 gr slug would make an excellent round. I'd also like to see the other supermag, the .445 Supermag put into a rifle.

The .357 Max is a great handgun deer cartridge. I just wish I had one.

lashlaroe · January 9, 2011, 08:00 PM

Stick_Man, you need to get one!

The .357 Max is a tack-driver for deer hunting. A 14" scoped TC barrel will make you a happy person. The last deer I took with it was at about 125 yds. A single shot through both shoulders. I am more than comfortable with taking shots at this range with the .357 Max in a TC since I can keep 5 rounds inside a quarter dia. group at 100 yds. And there is plenty of energy left in that 180 gr slug when it gets there too.

And as was mentioned, brass is pretty easy to get and you can load them with your regular .38/.357 dies. Easy-peezy!

PawPaw · January 9, 2011, 08:12 PM

It's also easy to take a .357 Magnum rifle in the H&R Handi-rifle and ream it out to .357 Maximum. Several of the guys at Graybeard's Outdoor forum have done that and report excellent results.

lashlaroe · January 10, 2011, 02:30 PM

Oooh! I LIKE that idea!

And a reasonably priced alternative too.

jmabrey · January 12, 2011, 12:19 PM

You can also get custom made 357 max barrels for encore handguns, and contender from most of the custom barrel makers. I have 2 from Match Grade Machine. these are true 200 yd. hunting weapons. I use Hornady 180 Gr. SS/PB over 22.4 grains of N120 for hunting and Hornady xtp's and Remington 180 gr. bullets for small game and range shooting.
Here are several websites with a wealth of info and a pic of one of my max's. My other one is a 10" stainless barrel.-

http://stevespages.com/357p_5_180.html

http://357maximum.com/ - about rifle but with pretty much the same with encore handgun

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=121

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell357Max.htm

357 maximum.jpg

WESHOOT2 · January 13, 2011, 01:03 AM

And a still-fair pile of 180g R-P JHPs, and regular Magnum brass, and some even primed, and AA9 and N110 and W296 and H110.
So I don't need the Max.....

mag41vance · January 13, 2011, 08:43 AM

Adding to what PawPaw stated;
A few years back, a bunch of guys on the old H&R talk forum went in on a reamer to ream the .357 NEF Handi to a .357 Maximum.
I was one of the first to use that reamer and it was an excellent project. I don't recall one person of the more that 11 that participated complaining about the results.

The .357 Maximum can reach Ballistic levels of the 35 Remington and you can also shoot a 158gr 38 special WC over 2.5 gr of Bullseye for plinking. Even with that jump on the 38 spc WC I could get 1/2" 5shot groups at 50yards.

I have taken several deer with that rifle. What a no frills bundle of practicality that rifle is.

Buy one and find out. (around $250.00 if you're a good shopper)

**Mike Irwin** · January 13, 2011, 09:26 AM

What's the Maximum's SAAMI top working pressure?

Magnum Wheel Man · January 13, 2011, 09:31 AM

PETER... Nice group... I have a Dan Wesson Revolver, & a 14" Contender barrel myself...my father in law used that revolver to shoot several deer... now after he died, it belongs to my wife & I... & I love the cartridge, IMO it's as good a handgun round for deer as it gets...

...the top strap errosion was found to be related to both light bullets & powder selection... too bad Ruger stopped production ( if there were a bunch of those guns around, I'd have a couple, including several custom "long" chamberings ) my Dan Wesson has very little errosion, even though it's had alot of rounds through it... but it usually only gets shot with 180, 190, & 200 grain bullets, & no stick powders... probably helps that the barrel / cylinder gap is adjustable, & I keep mine on the tight side...

... didn't know about how easy the levers are to convert ( I assumed there would be feed issues in the lifter area associated with the longer cartridges ) might have to look into a conversion, as I already have a 44 mag lever converted to 50 A.E. though honestly I think if I bought a 38 / 357 lever, I'd rather keep it in the lighter cartridges...

...funny thing, I bought several 100 of the last factory Remington ammo I could find ( I think back in the Clinton era ) & those were loaded with 158 grain bullets... I still have them, though the boxes got wrecked from humidity in the basement, & they have since been transfered to new plastic ammo boxes... some year I'll have to pobably shoot them up, when my other brass gets old ??? unless Starline is making Max brass, which I haven't looked, but I would expect they probably do...

here's my revolver, just how my father in law set it up for deer hunting... ( has a custom compensator / barrel nut which seems to help alot with recoil n this gun ) this is a revolver I actually shoot to 300 yards with on my rifle range...

mag41vance · January 13, 2011, 10:38 AM

SAAMI specs, 357 Remington Max - 40,000

Doodlebugger45 · January 13, 2011, 11:23 AM

Quote:

some year I'll have to pobably shoot them up, when my other brass gets old ??? unless Starline is making Max brass, which I haven't looked, but I would expect they probably do...

Starline doesn't make them, but Remington does. You can buy them for $26/100.

January 6, 2011, 08:43 AM	#2
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	357 maximum is a totally different cartridge. Case length of the 357 magnum is 1.29" and the case length of the 357 maximum is 1.605" They are *NOT* interchangeable. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

January 6, 2011, 08:52 AM	#4
Xfire68 Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2010 Location: Communist State of IL. Posts: 1,562	The .357 MAXIMUM is what the .357 Magnum wishes it could have been! Don't buy brass for a .357 Maximum unless you have a Danwesen .357 Maximum or a Thomson Contender in that caliber. I think there are Darrenger's in this Monster as well. __________________ NRA Life Member, SAF Member

January 6, 2011, 09:11 AM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	IIRC it came out in the late 1980s and failed pretty quickly because of the issues with gas cutting. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

January 6, 2011, 09:22 AM	#8
lashlaroe Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2010 Location: Central Florida Posts: 180	Yes, it did fail pretty quickly, but those of us with Contenders in .357 max don't have gas cutting issues and sure wish there was factory ammo still and better sources of new brass. At least I do. It is a tack-driving round that is excellent for hunting or silhouette and one of my personal favorites. __________________ Mike As much as I believe that there is good in every person, I'm not so naive as to think that all people are essentially good. Evil and evil people exist. Deny that fact at your own risk.

January 6, 2011, 10:26 PM	#11
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	friend owns the two-shooter The cutting was 'cause folks didn't read the 'structions: USE HEAVY BULLETS. Cutting reared its ugly head when bullet weight dropped below 170g. Real bad with 158/160s. Horrendous with 125s. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

January 6, 2011, 08:31 AM	#1
Clay Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2009 Posts: 166	357 brass... mag vs maximum? I'm getting ready to buy a big batch of reloading supplies and wanted to get a little bit of brass. Looking at Remington for 357 and see Mag and Maximum. I've never heard of 357 maximum. Is that just brass made for loading hot loads, or something else I shouldn't be concerned with? Thanks guys.

January 6, 2011, 08:44 AM	#3
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	I won't fit into your 357 magnum for starters. It is basically the 357 Magnum's "magnum" in the it has a lengthened case and will operate at a higher pressure, just like the 357 magnum did to the 38spl. And just like the 357 magnum/38spl the shorter lower power case will fire in the more powerful gun but not vice versa. http://www.reloadammo.com/357max.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_Remington_Maximum

January 6, 2011, 09:03 AM	#5
Clay Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2009 Posts: 166	Interesting, I never knew there was such a thing. Thanks for the answers guys, nice and quick!

January 6, 2011, 07:22 PM	#9
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	357 shotshells They make good full length shoshells for GPs __________________ GP100man

January 6, 2011, 07:27 PM	#10
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	I reckon they would at that GP100man. But do you have to ream the chambers out to make the throats longer? My .357 mag won't let a .357 max slide in because the mouth of the longer case hits the throat.

January 6, 2011, 11:54 PM	#12
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	Yep. I remember in the 80's when I first heard about the Max. It was designed mainly for the silhouette shooters trying to knock down the rams at 200 m and were not satisfied with the .44 mag. The intent was to allow the use of 180 or 200 gr bullets at pretty fast velocities. It worked very well too. Naturally though, some folks tried to load 125 gr bullets up to rifle velocities and got severe cutting on the top straps. That isn't what really killed the .357 Max though as far as making more revolvers went. Once all the silhouette shooters had them, and then that sport kind of declined itself, there just wasn't enough of a market at that time to justify cranking them out. Besides the Contenders, the Dan Wesson was the premier revolver made for .357 Max. But Ruger also made them in the Blackhawk. I still wish Ruger would make some more, either in the Blackhawk, or even better the Super Redhawk. As far as that goes, I wish they would make revolvers in all the SuperMag calibers. I really think the .375 SuperMag was an overlooked gem of a cartridge.

January 7, 2011, 08:05 AM	#13
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	357 Max I take the brass anneal it to prevent springback, then size it to the shoulder of a Rem 222 die , then prime , add powder , a card cut from cereal boxes , tamp it down tite , add shot #9-#10 works best, install another card with just a bit of case showing then run it into the 222 die shoulder to "roll" a little crimp , seal with waterproof carpenters glue . I do not alter the chambers !! Been thinkin of using the wax paper off of Ritz crackers to make a "wad of sorts to extend range for tree rats, it`s that time of yr. !!! __________________ GP100man Last edited by GP100man; January 7, 2011 at 08:10 AM.

January 8, 2011, 11:17 AM	#14
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	The max is a great round for what it is. It pushes a heavy bullet at original 357 Magnum velocities with ease and can go much beyond that. Here is one of my Maxes with a 357 round and a 357 Max round next to it. The 357 Mag is dwarfed by it. I now have 2 revolvers, a Ruger SRM and a DW Model 40 in 357 SuperMag (that will take the Max). I have also added a 357 Max Contender. I need a longer barrel on the contender now as the 10" just can't use the powder as well as I believe a 12" or 14 will do. I love the max. It shoots well, reloads easily and is just plain fun. Brass is readily available from Remington and I shoot lead LaserCast heavy bullets with little or no leading problems. My favorite loads are my plinkers. 180 grn Lead TC's or SWC's running about 1550 fps. Great stuff and not stressing the gun or me. When I get the longer barrel for the contender, I will make loads that I will not put in the revolver and see what the Max can really do! __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

January 9, 2011, 03:36 PM	#15
Stick_man Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2008 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 241	The Max is one that would really shine in a lever action rifle. Using a slow burning powder and a 180-200 gr slug would make an excellent round. I'd also like to see the other supermag, the .445 Supermag put into a rifle. The .357 Max is a great handgun deer cartridge. I just wish I had one.

January 9, 2011, 08:00 PM	#16
lashlaroe Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2010 Location: Central Florida Posts: 180	Stick_Man, you need to get one! The .357 Max is a tack-driver for deer hunting. A 14" scoped TC barrel will make you a happy person. The last deer I took with it was at about 125 yds. A single shot through both shoulders. I am more than comfortable with taking shots at this range with the .357 Max in a TC since I can keep 5 rounds inside a quarter dia. group at 100 yds. And there is plenty of energy left in that 180 gr slug when it gets there too. And as was mentioned, brass is pretty easy to get and you can load them with your regular .38/.357 dies. Easy-peezy! __________________ Mike As much as I believe that there is good in every person, I'm not so naive as to think that all people are essentially good. Evil and evil people exist. Deny that fact at your own risk.

January 9, 2011, 08:12 PM	#17
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	It's also easy to take a .357 Magnum rifle in the H&R Handi-rifle and ream it out to .357 Maximum. Several of the guys at Graybeard's Outdoor forum have done that and report excellent results. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

January 10, 2011, 02:30 PM	#18
lashlaroe Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2010 Location: Central Florida Posts: 180	Oooh! I LIKE that idea! And a reasonably priced alternative too. __________________ Mike As much as I believe that there is good in every person, I'm not so naive as to think that all people are essentially good. Evil and evil people exist. Deny that fact at your own risk.

January 12, 2011, 12:19 PM	#19
jmabrey Junior Member Join Date: January 12, 2006 Posts: 5	You can also get custom made 357 max barrels for encore handguns, and contender from most of the custom barrel makers. I have 2 from Match Grade Machine. these are true 200 yd. hunting weapons. I use Hornady 180 Gr. SS/PB over 22.4 grains of N120 for hunting and Hornady xtp's and Remington 180 gr. bullets for small game and range shooting. Here are several websites with a wealth of info and a pic of one of my max's. My other one is a 10" stainless barrel.- http://stevespages.com/357p_5_180.html http://357maximum.com/ - about rifle but with pretty much the same with encore handgun http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=121 http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell357Max.htm 357 maximum.jpg Last edited by jmabrey; January 12, 2011 at 07:50 PM.

January 13, 2011, 01:03 AM	#20
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	I got this 7.5" 357 Redhawk, see? And a still-fair pile of 180g R-P JHPs, and regular Magnum brass, and some even primed, and AA9 and N110 and W296 and H110. So I don't need the Max..... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

January 13, 2011, 08:43 AM	#21
mag41vance Member Join Date: August 5, 2005 Location: Central VA Posts: 23	Adding to what PawPaw stated; A few years back, a bunch of guys on the old H&R talk forum went in on a reamer to ream the .357 NEF Handi to a .357 Maximum. I was one of the first to use that reamer and it was an excellent project. I don't recall one person of the more that 11 that participated complaining about the results. The .357 Maximum can reach Ballistic levels of the 35 Remington and you can also shoot a 158gr 38 special WC over 2.5 gr of Bullseye for plinking. Even with that jump on the 38 spc WC I could get 1/2" 5shot groups at 50yards. I have taken several deer with that rifle. What a no frills bundle of practicality that rifle is. Buy one and find out. (around $250.00 if you're a good shopper) __________________ That's an X Last edited by mag41vance; January 13, 2011 at 08:54 AM.

January 13, 2011, 09:26 AM	#22
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	What's the Maximum's SAAMI top working pressure? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

January 13, 2011, 09:31 AM	#23
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	PETER... Nice group... I have a Dan Wesson Revolver, & a 14" Contender barrel myself...my father in law used that revolver to shoot several deer... now after he died, it belongs to my wife & I... & I love the cartridge, IMO it's as good a handgun round for deer as it gets... ...the top strap errosion was found to be related to both light bullets & powder selection... too bad Ruger stopped production ( if there were a bunch of those guns around, I'd have a couple, including several custom "long" chamberings ) my Dan Wesson has very little errosion, even though it's had alot of rounds through it... but it usually only gets shot with 180, 190, & 200 grain bullets, & no stick powders... probably helps that the barrel / cylinder gap is adjustable, & I keep mine on the tight side... ... didn't know about how easy the levers are to convert ( I assumed there would be feed issues in the lifter area associated with the longer cartridges ) might have to look into a conversion, as I already have a 44 mag lever converted to 50 A.E. though honestly I think if I bought a 38 / 357 lever, I'd rather keep it in the lighter cartridges... ...funny thing, I bought several 100 of the last factory Remington ammo I could find ( I think back in the Clinton era ) & those were loaded with 158 grain bullets... I still have them, though the boxes got wrecked from humidity in the basement, & they have since been transfered to new plastic ammo boxes... some year I'll have to pobably shoot them up, when my other brass gets old ??? unless Starline is making Max brass, which I haven't looked, but I would expect they probably do... here's my revolver, just how my father in law set it up for deer hunting... ( has a custom compensator / barrel nut which seems to help alot with recoil n this gun ) this is a revolver I actually shoot to 300 yards with on my rifle range... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

January 13, 2011, 10:38 AM	#24
mag41vance Member Join Date: August 5, 2005 Location: Central VA Posts: 23	SAAMI specs, 357 Remington Max - 40,000 __________________ That's an X