Friend got mugged Wednesday afternoon - Page 2

Claude Clay · September 27, 2009, 11:03 AM

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I wonder why we don't read about more of these incidents occurring

possibly cause people have connections to make and finding someone to take your statement and whatnot takes time--so much so that you miss your flight.

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carry a throwaway wallet

and some throw-down $$.

all these years i never meet anyone else who did that!
i have always carried my wallet in my front left pocket--saved me a number of times from pick-pockets. i felt them try the back pocket and even made eye contact--man can they disappear fast in a crowd!!
my wife use to think that i over thought things. after reading and traveling the past 20 years with me she understands more why i do things a 'certain' way.

no matter how aware and careful you are, others can conspire and create a situation that you have no out from.
as your friend did--give them what they want.
i am very confidant the they are not going to hurt me. cause if they did--the police would be on them fast and hard. this they don't want.
and today one can travel with very little cash. split it in 3 places and give up a little. chalk it up to yet another airport tax.

jgcoastie · September 27, 2009, 12:13 PM

I'm surprised nobody else has though of a way around this situation entirely.

When you get off the plane, go pee in a restroom that is still in the "secure area"... At least that way, you'll know they don't have a weapon and that puts you on a somewhat level fighting field.

Aside from airports on the secure side of the security checkpoints, I do not use public restrooms unless it's an absolute emergency.

troy_mclure · September 27, 2009, 12:38 PM

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Do you really think the ATL cops are going to waste thier time and money over $100?

Oh that just burns me up.

YES THEY WILL!
Because it may only be $100 from the OP's friend, but multiply that by a few victims and you're into felony territory very quickly.

Cops, by and large, will do their part but only if we do ours!

ive seen several instances where police didnt bother to take prints, one was over 5 nites there were 16 cars broken into, the 5th nite 2 guys were suprised by a car owner with a bat.
they left behind blood, and a flat prybar. the cops didnt take it, even when the vehicle owner pointed it out to them.

Stevie-Ray · September 27, 2009, 12:40 PM

A friend of mine told me about his son being mugged. Evidently, he was approached from behind, a pistol barrel was placed against the back of his neck, and the guy said simply, "Gimme the money." He took his wallet out of his back pocket without turning around, pulled the money from it, and held the money over his left shoulder and the wallet over his right. The money was taken from his left hand and the perp was gone. What he figured went right was, in his words, "I didn't get shot." Can't really argue that logic. If I am ever taken that completely by surprise, I suspect I'd do the same. Much like your friend, whom I'm quite happy to hear is OK.

If I'm carrying a fairly large sum of money, most of it is in my front pocket, while less than a hundred dollars stays in the wallet. Nowadays though, I try to go mostly cashless.

ATW525 · September 27, 2009, 01:13 PM

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i am very confidant the they are not going to hurt me. cause if they did--the police would be on them fast and hard.

Years ago I saw someone who had his face bashed into urinal in a public restroom. It wasn't pretty, and the people who did it had to walk right by a manned security station to get to the bathroom and then again to leave.

Deaf Smith · September 27, 2009, 01:17 PM

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When you get off the plane, go pee in a restroom that is still in the "secure area"... At least that way, you'll know they don't have a weapon and that puts you on a somewhat level fighting field.

And maybe just do that on the airplane before it lands.

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carry a throwaway wallet

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and some throw-down $$.

I like all those ideas.

And then, if you are in a state where your CCW is recognized, as soon as you get your luggage, go to the restroom (and keep aware if anyone follows you) and start packing your gun.

And it would not hurt to train to be able to use your fist and feet.

**Tom Servo** · September 27, 2009, 02:19 PM

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They could also be assured that passengers would not be armed.

Gotta love gun-free zones. All they do is assure criminals that they've got a pool of unarmed potential victims.

I've never thought to carry a "throwdown" wallet, though I've known folks who had fake/expired passports they'd carry when travelling abroad, in case of hostage situations.

Similar logic with the wallet, and a good idea.

Coop de Ville · September 27, 2009, 08:16 PM

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Do you really think the ATL cops are going to waste thier time and money over $100?

You'd be surprised what a fingerprint will link a criminal to.

-Coop

pacerdude · September 27, 2009, 10:11 PM

Well, in addition to my pacemaker and having to be frisked no matter what

, because of the metal detectors, I now have another reason to hate flying. I can't skip the Atlanta airport either as I am from there, and my parents live there.

However, I am very glad that your friend is okay. And I don't think carrying your gun on your person, to an airport, (let alone one of the busiest in the country), is a good idea. It could get you into hot water quick.

MLeake · September 27, 2009, 10:23 PM

.. when I'd mentioned carrying a gun in ATL, when I realized you were referring to another poster in the thread.

The way "carrying your gun" followed "glad your friend is ok" almost seemed to link the two thoughts, though.

Just so we are clear, I don't advocate carrying anyplace where it is not legal to do so. OTOH, I try to avoid those places except when it becomes very impractical to do so.

stephen426 · September 27, 2009, 10:38 PM

I hate to say it, but even being in a stall isn't much protection. If they have people guarding the door, they can easily give a "coast clear" signal and you're still out of luck. THey just have to point a weapon over the top of the stall and ask you to slide your wallet under the stall. You might never even see them.

I think a throw down wallet is probably the best bet in this situation since you are not likely to be armed. Even if you are armed, you are out numbered and they have the jump on you. I think avoiding using the restroom in non-sterile areas is also a great suggestion. I have had to go through Atlanta a few time and never felt any need for concern. Maybe my situational awareness was way too low!

jgcoastie · September 27, 2009, 10:55 PM

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Maybe my situational awareness was way too low!

If that thought enters your mind, you're probably right: it is.

Lost Sheep · September 27, 2009, 11:42 PM

I started carrying my money and my ID, credit cards, etc in separate wallets since 1974. When I got to Asia, the first briefing I got in-country included the advice to put my important stuff in one wallet and cash in another. It was considered very bad form to lose your ration card or Military ID to a local.

Been doing it ever since.

Lost Sheep.

besafe2 · September 28, 2009, 10:29 AM

To the op, again I'm glad your friend is ok.

On a side note I work in a major airline hub airport & have for almost 25 years. I always use the public restrooms(out side sterle area) & as of now have never had a problem. And being in an airline uniform the bg is going to know that I'm not armed. But airline employees have no money either

However after reading I'm going to be more careful. Thank you for posting this.

Tennessee Gentleman · September 28, 2009, 05:36 PM

I too like the idea of going in the stall and locking the door. Never thought of that one. I carry very little cash on me. I use debit card whenever possible. If robbed I can call my bank and turn it off before they could get to the candy stand next door. I seldom need cash personally. The thing is if they get the drop on you there is little you can do. The OP made me think about bathrooms in airports. Never even considered it.

Rattlehead · September 28, 2009, 05:59 PM

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However after reading I'm going to be more careful. Thank you for posting this.

I hate doing +1 posts, but I gotta second this. Definitely a wakeup for me.

Skans · September 29, 2009, 08:18 AM

When I use a restroom in a public airport, especially Atlanta, I'm quite aware that I could possibly get mugged while peeing. This is an old and successful tactic used by young punks. So, I don't use urinals and I lock the door behind me. I leave my bagage, etc, with someone else I'm traveling with, if possible. If I have to bring my bagage in with me, I perch it on the toilet flusher, out of reach. But, the biggest thing I do is look to see who appears to be just lingering around the bathroom and if I think things don't look right, I leave.

Sometimes, just looking at the perps, even if it makes some people uncomfortable, is enough to deter them from doing anything to you. FWIW, this kind of crap has been going on in Atlanta's airports for decades. I've had someone reach under my stall in the Atlanta airport before, obviously looking for bagage, etc that someone leaves near the stall door. My response was I kicked the stall door - doubt it did anything. The Atlanta airport staff, security and workers could give a crap - you're on your own.

N.H. Yankee · September 29, 2009, 09:03 AM

I guess this is a case to lobby for PUBLIC URINAL PANIC BUTTONS

I am always on guard when entering a public bathroom. This is a great place to be isolated and end up at someone's mercy. Realistically though sometimes you just have to go and take your chances.

Daugherty16 · September 29, 2009, 03:30 PM

I have to admit being blind to this one also - altho i only ever fly during business hours and use the restroom (if nec) in the secured area.

Using the stall provides at least some measure of separation for you - you can't see them, but they can't see you either.

So they try to rob you through the closed stall doors, what's to stop you from peeing on their shooes under the door/partition? Think they'll shoot you? Bust in on you? Maybe gross out and leave? I don't know. But it would be my first reaction, absent any other weapon. What the heck - it worked for Cheech, and even if you still lose your money at least you got some payback.

What a tactical disadvantage!

spacemanspiff · September 29, 2009, 04:01 PM

The last time I traveled, I made a point of getting my baggage and immediately went to the restroom to retrieve necessary defensive items from the checked bags. While it only was two folding knives, I still was a little more prepared than the average joe.

And +1 on never using a urinal, because I sit down to pee. I'm man enough to admit that. Ya'll can laugh at me if you want.

MikeGoob · September 29, 2009, 04:49 PM

If you go in a stall and think someone may be waiting for you to come out, get on your cell phone (or pretend to) and talk to someone who is not far from the restroom waiting for you.

SpectreBlofeld · September 29, 2009, 05:16 PM

I have two thoughts, one responsible and one not.

The first (responsible) one is, if you're ever in this situation, airport or not, you shouldn't try to be a hero. You're in an - ahem - compromised situation, caught with your britches down, as it were. You're not going to be able to draw, turn, aim, and fire quickly enough to save yourself, so you should probably just comply and get out with your life. The fake wallet idea is a good one.

The second thought is the irresponsible one... I have my doubts that these guys were really armed, and if they were, that they would pull a trigger in the busiest airport in the world. They're probably bluffing, and I'd be tempted turn around and whizz on them to prove it. Still a very dangerous situation, of course, because knives and fists can kill too, and silently at that.

Skans · September 29, 2009, 05:34 PM

Here's the thing. First, you have your thing hanging out and you are concentrating on peeing. So, I don't know about you, but I'm feeling pretty vulnerable if two guys sneak up behind me while I'm taking care of business. No one likes to confront a couple of thugs with his thing hanging out of his pants - at least I don't.

Second, there are lots of things a guy can do to you when you are facing a urinal - most likely punch or shove your head into the plumbing or the wall, or get you in a choke hold. Unless you've thought out a counter manouver to what "could" happen before it does, you're screwed. The bad guy doesn't need a gun or knife to mess you up. On the other hand, if think about it, and if you know how to fight dirty, you could probably develop a good enough counter attack to get you out of this situation. Don't use a public urinal if you see two thugs wansing their hands or lingering around, or at least us the stall and be prepared to fight.

MLeake · September 29, 2009, 05:53 PM

... is real, but can be mitigated by training.

I'm not the least bit worried about whether I could turn while drawing and deal with an unarmed BG, thing hanging out or not. The issues for me are can I do it quickly enough to deal with an armed BG (possibly not) and what are the odds of rounds going places I don't want them to go?

A few years of wrestling, a couple years of kickboxing, and over ten years of aikido may not mean I'd kick the butt of a large and tough BG; they do mean I have very good odds of creating enough time and distance to bring a pocket, IWB, or OWB handgun into play. They also mean that I've trained in keeping him from taking the weapon from me, and that if he tries he's likely to get a couple abdominal or lower thoracic shots from a retention positioned pistol for his efforts.

This doesn't help if he's outside arm's reach and holding a firearm at the ready, however.

Again, my reaction would be based less on "heroics" or "ego" than my own perception of the BG's intentions - IE do I think the person is likely to harm me whether I comply or not? If so, then resistance becomes the far better option. If not, then compliance might be safer and wiser.

As far as the "disadvantage" of defending oneself with one's junk hanging out, if a 91 year old man can do it, then I suppose I can, too:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/topic/sf...,4074945.story

Cheers,

M

IZZY · September 30, 2009, 07:00 AM

Bathrooms are physically and PSYCHOLOGICALLY vulnerable spots in our lives.

Tight quarters, embarrassment, Iffy Locks, etc.

I almost always try to use a stall, it might help, it might not ( cant they mug you when you leave?)...but at least I have a little privacy.

I'm a fighter and I might get the poop kicked out of me, but I'd make em work for the money in any case.

Tall people are vunerable too, you can grab legs and get them down on the floor.

If you really have to go, stall available or not, choose your bathroom carefully. ( if possible in your gate, most have multiple options, just keep walking)

I have found people at airline desks to be most helpful, don't hesitate to approach them with any bathroom/ security concerns.

September 27, 2009, 12:13 PM	#27
jgcoastie Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 2,118	I'm surprised nobody else has though of a way around this situation entirely. When you get off the plane, go pee in a restroom that is still in the "secure area"... At least that way, you'll know they don't have a weapon and that puts you on a somewhat level fighting field. Aside from airports on the secure side of the security checkpoints, I do not use public restrooms unless it's an absolute emergency. __________________ "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.

September 27, 2009, 12:40 PM	#29
Stevie-Ray Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: The shores of Lake Huron Posts: 4,783	A friend of mine told me about his son being mugged. Evidently, he was approached from behind, a pistol barrel was placed against the back of his neck, and the guy said simply, "Gimme the money." He took his wallet out of his back pocket without turning around, pulled the money from it, and held the money over his left shoulder and the wallet over his right. The money was taken from his left hand and the perp was gone. What he figured went right was, in his words, "I didn't get shot." Can't really argue that logic. If I am ever taken that completely by surprise, I suspect I'd do the same. Much like your friend, whom I'm quite happy to hear is OK. If I'm carrying a fairly large sum of money, most of it is in my front pocket, while less than a hundred dollars stays in the wallet. Nowadays though, I try to go mostly cashless. __________________ Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.

September 27, 2009, 10:11 PM	#34
pacerdude Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 607	Well, in addition to my pacemaker and having to be frisked no matter what , because of the metal detectors, I now have another reason to hate flying. I can't skip the Atlanta airport either as I am from there, and my parents live there. However, I am very glad that your friend is okay. And I don't think carrying your gun on your person, to an airport, (let alone one of the busiest in the country), is a good idea. It could get you into hot water quick. __________________ Let not a man guard his dignity, but let his dignity guard him. -Ralph Waldo Emerson

September 27, 2009, 10:23 PM	#35
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	I was going to ask... .. when I'd mentioned carrying a gun in ATL, when I realized you were referring to another poster in the thread. The way "carrying your gun" followed "glad your friend is ok" almost seemed to link the two thoughts, though. Just so we are clear, I don't advocate carrying anyplace where it is not legal to do so. OTOH, I try to avoid those places except when it becomes very impractical to do so.

September 27, 2009, 10:38 PM	#36
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	I hate to say it, but even being in a stall isn't much protection. If they have people guarding the door, they can easily give a "coast clear" signal and you're still out of luck. THey just have to point a weapon over the top of the stall and ask you to slide your wallet under the stall. You might never even see them. I think a throw down wallet is probably the best bet in this situation since you are not likely to be armed. Even if you are armed, you are out numbered and they have the jump on you. I think avoiding using the restroom in non-sterile areas is also a great suggestion. I have had to go through Atlanta a few time and never felt any need for concern. Maybe my situational awareness was way too low! __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

September 27, 2009, 11:42 PM	#38
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	Ive been carrying... I started carrying my money and my ID, credit cards, etc in separate wallets since 1974. When I got to Asia, the first briefing I got in-country included the advice to put my important stuff in one wallet and cash in another. It was considered very bad form to lose your ration card or Military ID to a local. Been doing it ever since. Lost Sheep.

September 28, 2009, 10:29 AM	#39
besafe2 Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2008 Location: NC Posts: 117	To the op, again I'm glad your friend is ok. On a side note I work in a major airline hub airport & have for almost 25 years. I always use the public restrooms(out side sterle area) & as of now have never had a problem. And being in an airline uniform the bg is going to know that I'm not armed. But airline employees have no money either However after reading I'm going to be more careful. Thank you for posting this. __________________ "Blessed be the Lord my strength,which teacheth my hands to war and my fingers to fight". Psalm 144:1 KJV Be safe: Paul

September 28, 2009, 05:36 PM	#40
Tennessee Gentleman Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,775	I too like the idea of going in the stall and locking the door. Never thought of that one. I carry very little cash on me. I use debit card whenever possible. If robbed I can call my bank and turn it off before they could get to the candy stand next door. I seldom need cash personally. The thing is if they get the drop on you there is little you can do. The OP made me think about bathrooms in airports. Never even considered it. __________________ "God and the Soldier we adore, in time of trouble but not before. When the danger's past and the wrong been righted, God is forgotten and the Soldier slighted." Anonymous Soldier.

September 29, 2009, 08:18 AM	#42
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	When I use a restroom in a public airport, especially Atlanta, I'm quite aware that I could possibly get mugged while peeing. This is an old and successful tactic used by young punks. So, I don't use urinals and I lock the door behind me. I leave my bagage, etc, with someone else I'm traveling with, if possible. If I have to bring my bagage in with me, I perch it on the toilet flusher, out of reach. But, the biggest thing I do is look to see who appears to be just lingering around the bathroom and if I think things don't look right, I leave. Sometimes, just looking at the perps, even if it makes some people uncomfortable, is enough to deter them from doing anything to you. FWIW, this kind of crap has been going on in Atlanta's airports for decades. I've had someone reach under my stall in the Atlanta airport before, obviously looking for bagage, etc that someone leaves near the stall door. My response was I kicked the stall door - doubt it did anything. The Atlanta airport staff, security and workers could give a crap - you're on your own.

September 29, 2009, 09:03 AM	#43
N.H. Yankee Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2004 Location: Rural N.H. Posts: 1,586	I guess this is a case to lobby for PUBLIC URINAL PANIC BUTTONS I am always on guard when entering a public bathroom. This is a great place to be isolated and end up at someone's mercy. Realistically though sometimes you just have to go and take your chances. __________________ The real danger to America is not abroad but within.. Having an open mind is a good thing, but not so open that your brains fall out! Save America, abort liberalism.

September 29, 2009, 03:30 PM	#44
Daugherty16 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2008 Location: Live Free or Die state Posts: 259	Take a tip from Cheech I have to admit being blind to this one also - altho i only ever fly during business hours and use the restroom (if nec) in the secured area. Using the stall provides at least some measure of separation for you - you can't see them, but they can't see you either. So they try to rob you through the closed stall doors, what's to stop you from peeing on their shooes under the door/partition? Think they'll shoot you? Bust in on you? Maybe gross out and leave? I don't know. But it would be my first reaction, absent any other weapon. What the heck - it worked for Cheech, and even if you still lose your money at least you got some payback. What a tactical disadvantage! __________________ "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness... How pathetic." - - Ted Nugent "Cogito, Ergo Armitum Sum" - (I Think, Therefore I Am Armed)- - anon.

September 29, 2009, 04:01 PM	#45
spacemanspiff Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2002 Location: alaska Posts: 3,498	The last time I traveled, I made a point of getting my baggage and immediately went to the restroom to retrieve necessary defensive items from the checked bags. While it only was two folding knives, I still was a little more prepared than the average joe. And +1 on never using a urinal, because I sit down to pee. I'm man enough to admit that. Ya'll can laugh at me if you want. __________________ "Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard

September 29, 2009, 04:49 PM	#46
MikeGoob Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Posts: 876	If you go in a stall and think someone may be waiting for you to come out, get on your cell phone (or pretend to) and talk to someone who is not far from the restroom waiting for you.

September 29, 2009, 05:16 PM	#47
SpectreBlofeld Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2004 Posts: 304	I have two thoughts, one responsible and one not. The first (responsible) one is, if you're ever in this situation, airport or not, you shouldn't try to be a hero. You're in an - ahem - compromised situation, caught with your britches down, as it were. You're not going to be able to draw, turn, aim, and fire quickly enough to save yourself, so you should probably just comply and get out with your life. The fake wallet idea is a good one. The second thought is the irresponsible one... I have my doubts that these guys were really armed, and if they were, that they would pull a trigger in the busiest airport in the world. They're probably bluffing, and I'd be tempted turn around and whizz on them to prove it. Still a very dangerous situation, of course, because knives and fists can kill too, and silently at that.

September 29, 2009, 05:34 PM	#48
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Here's the thing. First, you have your thing hanging out and you are concentrating on peeing. So, I don't know about you, but I'm feeling pretty vulnerable if two guys sneak up behind me while I'm taking care of business. No one likes to confront a couple of thugs with his thing hanging out of his pants - at least I don't. Second, there are lots of things a guy can do to you when you are facing a urinal - most likely punch or shove your head into the plumbing or the wall, or get you in a choke hold. Unless you've thought out a counter manouver to what "could" happen before it does, you're screwed. The bad guy doesn't need a gun or knife to mess you up. On the other hand, if think about it, and if you know how to fight dirty, you could probably develop a good enough counter attack to get you out of this situation. Don't use a public urinal if you see two thugs wansing their hands or lingering around, or at least us the stall and be prepared to fight.

September 29, 2009, 05:53 PM	#49
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Disadvantage of having an unarmed BG behind you.... ... is real, but can be mitigated by training. I'm not the least bit worried about whether I could turn while drawing and deal with an unarmed BG, thing hanging out or not. The issues for me are can I do it quickly enough to deal with an armed BG (possibly not) and what are the odds of rounds going places I don't want them to go? A few years of wrestling, a couple years of kickboxing, and over ten years of aikido may not mean I'd kick the butt of a large and tough BG; they do mean I have very good odds of creating enough time and distance to bring a pocket, IWB, or OWB handgun into play. They also mean that I've trained in keeping him from taking the weapon from me, and that if he tries he's likely to get a couple abdominal or lower thoracic shots from a retention positioned pistol for his efforts. This doesn't help if he's outside arm's reach and holding a firearm at the ready, however. Again, my reaction would be based less on "heroics" or "ego" than my own perception of the BG's intentions - IE do I think the person is likely to harm me whether I comply or not? If so, then resistance becomes the far better option. If not, then compliance might be safer and wiser. As far as the "disadvantage" of defending oneself with one's junk hanging out, if a 91 year old man can do it, then I suppose I can, too: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/topic/sf...,4074945.story Cheers, M

September 30, 2009, 07:00 AM	#50
IZZY Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Florida Posts: 938	Bathrooms are physically and PSYCHOLOGICALLY vulnerable spots in our lives. Tight quarters, embarrassment, Iffy Locks, etc. I almost always try to use a stall, it might help, it might not ( cant they mug you when you leave?)...but at least I have a little privacy. I'm a fighter and I might get the poop kicked out of me, but I'd make em work for the money in any case. Tall people are vunerable too, you can grab legs and get them down on the floor. If you really have to go, stall available or not, choose your bathroom carefully. ( if possible in your gate, most have multiple options, just keep walking) I have found people at airline desks to be most helpful, don't hesitate to approach them with any bathroom/ security concerns.