NBC New York is Shocked to Learn Effect of SAFE Act

[rwilson452]

That's a point. I periodically think back to the fact that there were unsecured firearms in my grandfather's house, EVERYONE knew that they were there and where they were kept, yet no matter how angry anyone got at someone else nobody ever went for the guns to settle a disagreement.

When I was growing up we had unsecured guns in the house. I knew where they were and where the ammo was. I also knew if I touched them I would pay a heavy price, so I didn't. I was also a Boy Scout and carried my BSA pocket knife everywhere, including school. Most of my fellow BSA kids did likewise. Nobody stabbed anyone. It was not thought of. It was a tool to be used as a tool not a weapon. Then again I came along before the baby boomers maybe that's why.

[Don P]

I have to agree with Tom's statement in post #45. I went to HS in the late 60's early 70's in Brooklyn NY and when there was violence it was 2 guys knocking the snot out of each other with fists and a possible kick. No guns, no knives.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

The one question we aren't asking is this: why are we raising kids to resort to violence like this?

We're asking.... and answering... but an awful lot of folks don't like the answer. It's a world-view and morality problem and will be forever explained away by folks unwilling to acknowledge the truth for fear of having to change their own lives/views/morals.

Any more than that is, unfortunately, inappropriate for purposes of our forum. Folks can PM me if they'd like to talk about it.

[44 AMP]

I went to high school in the late 1980's. I can't recall ever hearing about fatal school violence. Now we have a generation of kids who seem to do it on a weekly basis.

Lots of folks are chasing their tails about the instrumentality, but there's something in these kids' minds that is fundamentally broken. Until we address that, we're going to continue to have violence.

I graduated High School in 75. There was nothing then like today. but also, back then, if kids got into a fight, the local law officers, counselors, and social and health services were not involved, either.

Also, when something did happen, big or small, it wasn't world wide news in a matter of minutes, or less. Nor was it in our face 24/7 for days or weeks.
There seems to me more violence, in general, today, but, how much of that is the "internet effect", and round the clock news?

Is there actually more? Or does it just seem so, because we hear about it constantly today?


Along with all the other social changes, kids today have 24/7 access to our entertainment media, including all the interactive games. Most feature some degree of violence, and some are almost noting but.

I'm not trying to start a discussion about what/how much influence this has, but I feel that thinking this has no influence is not realistic.

Not too many generations ago, a guy could be punched in the face for using coarse language around a woman. And no one went to jail, generally.

The lucky folk got to go to the movies, once a week. Violence in the movies was entertainment, partly because if was a rare treat (the movie). Today, kids can see violence, very often with guns, from the time they open their eyes until they close them.

How can this NOT be some level of training?

(and please, don't start on what studies show, or don't show, today. Save that for another thread)

We have to recognize that some people do violence for any, or even no reason we can understand. We need to control THEM, not what things they use, that the rest of us use, as well.

[BarryLee]

We need to control THEM, not what things they use, that the rest of us use, as well.

Yes, we may never know all the reasons why, but I think we all agree that the NY SAFE Act isn’t the answer. Currently Congress is looking at competing Bills to address the most obvious cause mental illness. Whether they can reach any kind of consensus remains to be seen, but at least these efforts have the potential to address the real problem.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...duced/8816035/

[44 AMP]

The current US Congress ruling about mental illness...hmmmm

not sure if that calls to mind the pot and the kettle, or the fox and the henhouse....

They have the potential to do go....

On the other hand, they might surprise me.....

[chesterfield]

I think increased permissiveness, instant gratification, and an entitlement attitude are partly to blame. Some parents just won't tell their kids "no" and when someone does they don't know how to handle it. I don't know anyone that hasn't been turned down for a date at one time or another and it never led to violence.
Why are people so quick to pick up a weapon at the slightest provocation? I don't know but I'm afraid the government is going to try to fix it for us.

[thallub]

The authors of that hit piece ignored the fact that incidents of firearm violence in the US have decreased dramatically since 1993:

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=4616

Homicide data by type of weapon; 2007-2011:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...e-data-table-8

[Lt. Skrumpledonk Ret]

Tom Servo : "I went to high school in the late 1980's. I can't recall ever hearing about fatal school violence. Now we have a generation of kids who seem to do it on a weekly basis."

I bet you also never heard of any kids taking SSRI's, ie. prozac, zoloft or other depression medication which creates suicidal/homicidal tendencies

[hfl73]

I am a retired elementary school teacher. At the end of my career I was amazed that the line for students on meds to the nurse's office at lunch time was longer than the food line. I think that can explain a lot about what is happening to children today.

[OuTcAsT]

44 AMP Wrote;

I graduated High School in 75. There was nothing then like today.

Agreed, That was my "era" as well. Another difference was back then, you could walk through the parking lot and it was hard to find a pickup that did not have a gun rack in back with either a shotgun, Rifle, or Bow on it.

Also, many of my teachers carried in school.

[Mike1234]

I graduated HS in 1979. The worst problems throughout my K-12 years were a few bullies and some pot-heads... and teachers who were so jaded that they'd given up on most students. The latter problem was far worse than the former two and made the K-12 school experience literally unbearable due to total apathy and abuse by those who were supposedly our mentors. I truly hated school from 2nd grade and beyond. That stated, I never once thought of lashing out against others with violence... but I was often suicidal though I never tried anything that drastic. Schools in Lubbbock, TX... not the best for certain.

My son had similar problems in Lubbock and San Antonio public schools. He did well in private schools. Maybe all Texas public schools suck?

[Armed_Chicagoan]

Originally Posted by OuTcAsT

Agreed, That was my "era" as well. Another difference was back then, you could walk through the parking lot and it was hard to find a pickup that did not have a gun rack in back with either a shotgun, Rifle, or Bow on it.

Also, many of my teachers carried in school.

But your perception does not match reality, Tennessee's murder rate in 1975 was nearly double what it is today: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/tncrime.htm

1971-1977 were some of the deadliest years in US history.

[OuTcAsT]

Armed_Chicagoan Wrote;

But your perception does not match reality,

Actually, only your perception does not match my reality, I was not in Tennessee at that time.

[Armed_Chicagoan]

Originally Posted by OuTcAsT

Actually, only your perception does not match my reality, I was not in Tennessee at that time.

What state were you in? Odds are the murder rate was far higher than it is today.

[44 AMP]

Murder rate statistics are a way of looking at how "bad" the times are, but only as "overall", and do not reflect the conditions of specific areas.

A rural low crime area is the reality for the people who live and grow up there. Sadly, so is a high crime urban area, for the people there.

Despite what the overall numbers are, if you were in a good area then, it was good. Lower numbers of murders now means the bad areas aren't as bad as they were, that's about all.

I grew up in northern NY state. Low crime, murder was rare. That was reality. The fact that people may (or may not) have been killing each other by the truck load in NYC (couple hundred miles south) didn't affect my reality at all at that time.

News Flash! It appears that NY residents are soon going to experience another effect of the SAFE Act. It seems Remington is going to move a lot, if not most of its businesses south.