They want to poison wild hogs Texas

[Double Naught Spy]

I still hold my bottom line that pigs need to be moderated by any sound method and I think poisoning with some substance should at least be tested.

Let's hold onto that idea of being tested. Where was Texas' testing of Warfarin for hogs? For years, Texas has been testing contraceptives and sodium nitrate (meat preservative) and sodium nitrate was the frontrunner. No indication that it would cause secondary poisoning to human or scavenger, yet all of a sudden the USDA has approved Warfarin and Miller gave it a green light.

Australia toyed with it for quite some time, and they don't use it any more. However, this study found it 99% effective. https://www.researchgate.net/publica...igs_Sus_Scrofa Cool. All we need to do is to meet the same deployment parameters. For the number of feeding stations they had for their area, Texas would need 1.2+ million feeding stations across Texas. So that is 1.2+ million specialty hog-only feeders (unless you have multiple feeders for a given station and then you would need more. So all of those stations are going to need to be regularly filled and monitored and the lure changed to the poison bait after 3-6 weeks and then dead hogs will have to be searched for and collected, then buried and the process repeated until the hogs are gone.

Now, this all needs to be done quickly to get as many killed as fast as possible, ideally virtually all of them, because if hogs are anything like rats, those that get partially dosed and survive, producing you, will become Warfarin tolerant such that it won't work any more.

So do we think we are going to get 1.2 million feeding stations set up across the state in some sort of coordinated effort? Nope.

[Snyper]

Yeah, actually hunting/trapping/dogs do make a dent and make a big dent. One estimate from 2015 had 325,000 hogs killed by hunters/trappers/doggers. That is a LOT of hogs. The problem is that it isn't sufficient to control the population. Without hunting, the problem would be much worse.

Hunting doesn't kill enough to keep the populations from growing.

Many landowners have as many problems from hunters as they do from hogs, but they can't poison the hunters.

Sodium Nitrite is a better poison, but the fact they approved Warfarin doesn't mean it's the only one that will be used, or that it will be spread randomly across the whole state.

There is a lot of information and some interesting maps here:
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_...erstone121.pdf

[Old Stony]

I don't know if a lot of people have a real grasp of the situation or the logistics they would have to deal with to "control" hogs. My first concern would be the numbers of hogs to be dealt with...as the numbers that fly around have no basis in fact as far as I am concerned. There is no possible way to back up statements of how millions of hogs are in Texas. Any numbers you read about are something dreamed up by people sitting at a desk somewhere as there is no possible way to get even a close estimate on feral hog population. Many parts of Texas have very dense woods and foliage which is good habitat for the hogs, but there is no possible way to figure out how many are in there....you might count a sounder or two in west Texas that are out in the open running.
Government agencies like Texas Park and Wildlife making comments about hog populations is mere supposition.
As far as following up and burying the dead hogs after a poisoning episode, that just isn't going to happen in most incidences. In my area you are lucky if you can find a wounded hog in the dense woods, where machinery could not even reach them to do the burying.
I have killed many hogs here in Texas...probably more than most people will actually see in their lifetime. I am a caretaker to an area that is not agricultural and has very dense woods on it. I see many raptors on a regular basis, including eagles nesting in the area, bobcats, etc., that will all become effected by a mass poisoning.
I see no hope for a good outcome or effective results of this program.

[Mobuck]

"Australia cannot call the pig population closer than "4 to 20 million." But they are still killing all they can."

See, that's the problem. The little piggies are hard to count and even if there are 2(of opposite sex) remaining, the population will explode again within 3-4 years.

[Double Naught Spy]

Sodium nitrate would be better and has been tested much more extensively here, so you have to wonder how it was that Warfarin was selected, or "fast-tracked" as Side Miller (Ag Commissioner) said. Notice in the article Snyper cited that Warfarin has been banned in Australia for this use and as of 2012 isn't even apparently on the radar for use in the US.

So we got Warfarin. Who is paying for all those feeders, lure, bait, and subsequent disposal of millions of carcasses of hogs (assuming it doesn't kill a single non-target species)?

Australia, back in the 80s did their testing and the cost was $A39 per hog killed and $A47 for subsequent re-invaders to the area. Converting for the exchange rate and inflation, it would be more than that for US $ today, not even including the cost of labor. This will be both very expensive and very labor intensive (and costly). Landowners are not apt to have licensed Warfarin handler-people volunteering to bait and maintain feeders on their property. The state isn't providing this service. So it will be the landowners getting licensed and doing the work or paying licensed people to do the work.

If they burying all the hogs killed by Warfarin as indicated needs to be done in the directions for use, there will be a lot of hog cemeteries in Texas.

Sid Miller likes to point out how Australia used Warfarin on their hog population and he acts like it was a good thing. What he repeatedly fails to disclose is that use of Warfarin for hogs is now banned in that country and has been for years (see Snyper's article). If Warfarin was doing so well in Australia, then why is it banned for this use now?

[FITASC]

If Warfarin was fast tracked, follow the money - who makes it, campaign donations? hate to sound like a conspiracy nut, but typically when things that were not going to be done/used get fast-tracked, there's an ulterior motive somewhere.

[burrhead]

Well Double Naught, you're changing my mind and I need to do more research. As to Sid Miller, I will remain silent due to the (needed) restrictions on political discussions here.

Thanks for your and other's thought provoking comments.

[thallub]

i don't like the idea of using Warfarin to kill wild hogs.

Wild hogs are big business in OK and TX. Hog doggers and trappers sell their hogs to hunting "ranches" and slaughter houses. There are hunting "ranches" all over the place. Many do not have adequate fencing to keep the hogs in.

Been hunting and trapping wild hogs since 2000 and have a pretty good grasp of the hog situation in OK and TX. Early last year i went on a hog killing rampage at our deer lease, targeting small pigs. My Ruger .22 accounted for 50-60 small pigs. Last year i trapped and hunted down at least 20 large boars and about as many sows.

Hunters in OK and TX are actually raising wild hogs. They spend lots of money on thousands of tons of corn and other stuff for use in "deer" feeders. Hogs are frequenting most of those "deer" feeders.

Hogs have adversely impacted the deer population at our deer lease. i've seen one doe with fawn there in the past two years. We have been guilty of attracting and feeding hogs there. We have raised generations of trap shy wild hogs.

Beginning immediately i will no longer feed wild hogs. Taller fences will be built around my deer feeders. You can either feed hogs or trap hogs; can't do both.

[rickyrick]

I posted this in 2012, I just happened to find the damage in person at the same time I found a fresh image on google earth. But here is some damage from space.

The darker dirt is the damage, the lighter stuff is animal trails

[shootbrownelk]

What will be the method of the hogs ingesting the warfarin? Poisoned grain? How do you keep deer/turkeys etc. from eating the grain, if that's the delivery system they employ?

[dahermit]

Stupidest thing I've ever herd [Sic, "heard"], sorry no info to back it up

Everybody getting so worked up over a rumor. If that was a topic for discussion (overheard in a bar), it would not be worthy of mentioning. Here we have it on a gun forum, and everyone fails to take into account that it is an unsubstantiated rumor.

[thallub]

It ain't an unsubstantiated rumor. The TX Ag Commissioner has approved the poisoning of wild hogs using Warfarin.

Texas Agriculture Commissioner Sid Miller approved the use of pesticides this week to aid in the killing of feral hogs, long a scourge of Texas landowners. The approved poison is called Kaput Feral Hog Lure and contains warfarin which is already used to kill larger rodents.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-te...s-10950587.php

[Husqvarna]

can't they do some kind of eminent domain thing and send up a bunch of soldiers in choppers?

Or just invite Franz Albrecht
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOgXcffC3ow

[Texas45]

Originally Posted by dahermit

Everybody getting so worked up over a rumor. If that was a topic for discussion (overheard in a bar), it would not be worthy of mentioning. Here we have it on a gun forum, and everyone fails to take into account that it is an unsubstantiated rumor.

Michigan near ohio news dont always cover us hicks in Texas.
'Hog apocalypse': Texas Ag Commissioner approves killing feral hogs with poison
Craig Hlavaty | on February 22, 2017


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[Pathfinder45]

Well, one thing I think that those of us that live elsewhere, unaffected by this problem, should do, is refrain from telling the folks in Texas what they can or cannot do about this problem. A lot of our opinions might be useless; some might be helpful. I think Texans ought to be very concerned about the use of any poisons, however, I feel it's their decision to make. Border States should probably have a stake in this, but here in Oregon, I'm not sure we should have the same say in this. We can air our concerns, but Texans will have to decide what they will do while the rest of us watch and learn from it. Texans owe it to themselves and the environment to be well informed about any poisons they might use. Sounds like they have a virtual war going on down there. I did have a war once with rabbits. I was killing all I could, but I was losing the war. Finally a band of Coyotes came in and saved my crops. I don't see that happening with the pigs, though.

[Texas45]

Well here is a lil info.
Texas A&M
http://feralhogs.tamu.edu/frequently...ons-wild-pigs/

And:

Wild hogs will breed year round, but births peak in spring and fall. Gestation is 114 days, and a sow will give birth to anywhere from 1 to a dozen piglets. She can have 2 litters a year.


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[Pathfinder45]

Good info, Texas45, thanks for the link. Apparently, there are some feral pigs in Oregon, but it hasn't reached the level that your problem has become. We should all be watching how you folks handle the problem that we may learn from your successes and for what measures didn't work out.

[Double Naught Spy]

What will be the method of the hogs ingesting the warfarin? Poisoned grain? How do you keep deer/turkeys etc. from eating the grain, if that's the delivery system they employ?

Special, hog-only, feeders. The process is rather involved and time consuming.
https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem...6-20170103.pdf

[Snyper]

I see many raptors on a regular basis, including eagles nesting in the area, bobcats, etc., that will all become effected by a mass poisoning.

Warfarin has extremely low toxicity in birds.
It's not likely a Bobcat could ingest enough from a dead hog to be harmed.

[Snyper]

If Warfarin was doing so well in Australia, then why is it banned for this use now?

I'd suspect it's more due to politics than science.
They like to ban useful things Down Under.

[Koda94]

if Texas has a hog problem its their own fault, there is no shortage of hunters that would decimate the hog population. The problem is Texas allows property owners to charge to hunt hogs and they make a ton of money doing so. Its a huge industry there, so I cant imagine any legislation would pass easily to outlaw it. They also sold off all their public land.

We have feral hogs here in Oregon, but its against the law to charge someone to hunt them here. Its open season year round, no tags no limit. Suffice to say its extremely rare to see a hog out here.

Poisoning them is a stupid idea.

[stephen426]

If there was a commercial processor that could buy the hogs and put them on the market, I'm sure they would be hunted much more aggressively. Most hunters will not shoot an animal for the heck of it and leave it to rot. There is only so much meat one really needs. Now if we were able to market natural pork, I believe we could make some major headway. Hopefully it would drive down the cost of bacon!

[Double Naught Spy]

if Texas has a hog problem its their own fault, there is no shortage of hunters that would decimate the hog population. The problem is Texas allows property owners to charge to hunt hogs and they make a ton of money doing so. Its a huge industry there, so I cant imagine any legislation would pass easily to outlaw it. They also sold off all their public land.

We have feral hogs here in Oregon, but its against the law to charge someone to hunt them here. Its open season year round, no tags no limit. Suffice to say its extremely rare to see a hog out here.

I see your Oregon system is working well. The distribution of hogs in Oregon has expanded greatly in only a few years...

2012 Map http://ohiodnr.gov/portals/0/images/...-swine-map.jpg
2015 Map http://swine.vet.uga.edu/nfsms/infor...bution2015.jpg

Considering how recent your problem is, that is pretty darned dramatic. Oregon didn't have any in the 80s and now look at it...
https://www.qdma.com/wp-content/uplo...-2015-qdma.jpg

Charging to hunt hogs actually has allowed people to hunt on more lands than would otherwise be open for hunting. Texans are no different than Oregonians when it comes to letting strangers hunt on their land. The answer is usually NO unless there is profit to be made.

Oregon has also made it a law, as of 2009 that hog damage and sightings of hogs are supposed to be reported and that it is the legal responsibility of landowners/managers to rid feral hogs from lands under their control.

Landowners and land managers are
required to contact their local ODFW office
within 10 days of discovering feral swine
on their land. They, then, have 60 days to
submit a feral swine removal plan
to the department for approval.

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/conservat...e_Brochure.pdf

Feral hogs are a problem in every state where they exist, including Oregon. Y'all are lucky in that your problem is fairly new and small and maybe you can nip it early, but so far, y'all don't appear to be winning that battle, either.

If there was a commercial processor that could buy the hogs and put them on the market, I'm sure they would be hunted much more aggressively. Most hunters will not shoot an animal for the heck of it and leave it to rot. There is only so much meat one really needs. Now if we were able to market natural pork, I believe we could make some major headway. Hopefully it would drive down the cost of bacon!

There is a very good market for feral hog meat and we have inspection and buying facilities all over the state for LIVE hogs. Hogs are considered to be livestock and regulated as such when it comes to the sale or distribution for public consumption. The animals must be first inspected before slaughter and afterwards just like farm pigs and cattle.

As for not shooting an animal and leaving it to rot, hunters do it all the time with animals that don't like, often categorizing them in some derogatory manner (e.g., vermin, pests, etc.) such as coyotes, foxes, bobcat, raccoons, opossums, armadillos, stray dogs, feral cats, beaver, nutria, snakes, mountain lions, squirrels, etc.

[reynolds357]

It is Warfarin people, get over it. The insecticide I spray on my hay fields is 5,000 times more toxic than Warfarin.

[stephen426]

Double Naught Spy,

The issue is the animals must be taken live. I'm not sure how wary hogs are of traps, but based on the fact someone isn't making a ton of money trapping them and bringing them to market leads me to believe taking hogs live is easier said than done.

As for not shooting animals and leaving them to rot, I get your point. I would call it pest control rather than hunting though. Maybe it is just semantics.