Help me pick THE MOST VERSATILE 12 ga. in existence!!

[Smoke Screen]

Got your attention? Good. I am going through my next gun buying options and would like to buy an extremely versatile 12 ga. (I'm young w/family and have to save a loooong time to afford guns)

The only other shotgun I have at current moment is an older remington .20 ga handed down to me from my grandpa who bought it for $60 new at sears 50 years ago (its the browning design that both remington and ithaca bought. Adjustable choke on the muzzle etc...). Its a sweet field gun and I love it. HOWEVER....It's time to upgrade to a newer 12 ga.

Now...by versatile, I want a gun that I can use for both HUNTING and DEFENDING my home when its not outside. I will only hunt small game with it. Rabbits, dove, chuckar, sage hen, pheasant (but mostly rabbits)etc...I don't hunt water fowl with it so I won't be needing a platform with a super long barrel. I'd also like to be able to shoot some skeet every now and again(I don't normally but would like the option to)

Soooooooo. That being said, I want something with large round capacity, maybe 5-9 rounds, a short barrel but long enough to hunt with. And something that I can put any type of shot through(from 7 1/2 to buckshot to slugs). I have decided on the 870 or 500/590 platforms like most everyone here, but am having trouble deciding. My budget is around $450 so maybe that might help. I know the hunters are going to say "You can't hunt with a shotty with over 3 round capacity" But where I live and hunt, you can shoot Jackrabbits with whatever the crap you want without shot restriction. Only once a year when I hunt upland game to I throw the plug in the gun

Please help, their are too many options!

[Samadams2000]

Just picked up a Mossberg Persuader 12 gauge, 20 inch barrell. $230. Not a sawed off, not a pure 18" defender per se but also a good length for hunting etc. I own 5 shotguns and the are all "versitile".

[Smoke Screen]

Plus, I can always swap barrels out on the Mossy's if I plan on going hunting. A 20" barrel sounds like a good length.

[scorpion_tyr]

Either the Mossberg or the Remington would be a fine choice. For a higher capacity both can be fitted with extensions. When I looked at the same thing it seems the 870 has a few more options because it's been around longer. Both have plenty of compatible accessories. Remington would be my choice, but I say get the one that feels better in your hands.

[Dave McC]

870, set up with a 21" turkey barrel. Short enough for HD, long enough for waterfowl, though blast will be severe.

And the only true triple I ever did on quail was with a riot barreled 870. It will make you rethink the term, "Quail Gun".

An IC and a Modified tube will do for most hunting. I'm not the biggest fan of mag extensions, but a two or three shot extension will tuck neatly under that barrel if you want one.

Add sling studs and ammo, you're ready to go.

[ebutler462]

Any gun that fits you and your wallet. Just screw a Polychoke II in it and you have the most versatile gun that can be found.

[zippy13]

IMO, an "extremely versatile" shotgun must be able get off consecutive shots faster than is obtainable with a pump action. Smoke Screen, you included the ability to shoot Skeet in your criteria. I'm sure there are those who'll say you can shoot Skeet with a pump gun. If you want you can try Skeet with a sling shot, too. I've witnessed way too many eager new shooters walk off a Skeet field in frustration because they can't cycle their pump guns fast enough for the doubles.
Before you narrow your search down to between pump gun models, do yourself a favor and try some clay pairs with an auto-loader or O/U. Don't let cost be the determining factor. There's nothing wrong with a used gun...
One of my shooting buddies makes easy money from Remington 1100s at gun shows and swap meets. When he sees one that's promising, he'll casually turn it end-to-end. He doesn't need to look at the butt, he's listening to hear the rings move. If the gun's quite, it's probably clogged-up and needs a good cleaning. Next, he'll ask the seller if he can remove the fore-end, 'cause something doesn't seem right. If it's total grime, or the barrel seal's messed up, or the rings incorrectly re-installed, he knows the gun doesn't cycle okay. And, that's why it's for sale. He makes a real low ball offer and usually gets the gun. A thorough cleaning plus a $4 barrel seal, and the bargain 1100 is as good as new, and ready for the next owner. Except, this time it's sold at a gun club where it's performance can be verified to justify the new higher price.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Express or 500 combo gun would be the way to go.

[Demaiter]

ok - my opinion

24" barrel works for hunting and self defense - its a little short for hunting and then a little long for SD
24" barrel allows for more shots to be stored then an 18" barrel if you use mag extenders.
Synthetic stock is more durable/resistant in hard conditions
Pump action for ease of use/reliability.
Normal barrel for shot/buckshot/rifled slugs.
Screw in chokes. Keep a modified/full in for SD - when going to the field switch to improved or modified.

Many turkey models cover this basically.

[nate45]

Express or 500 combo gun would be the way to go.

I've got a 12 Ga. 3 inch chamber Mossberg 500 with an 18 inch barrel with a pistol grip, I also have a butt stock, vent rib barrel with screw in chokes and a fully rifled barrel with a cantilever scope mount for it. They don't get much more versatile than that. If I could only keep one firearm that would be it.

If you shop around you can find all that for less than $500.

[Dave McC]

Hey, Zippy.....

I don't shoot that much skeet, but when I do, I like to load up some 3/4 or 7/8 oz loads of 8.5 shot for use in divers 870s as well as my pet Beretta.

How well do 3/4 oz 12 gauge loads cycle in your pet 1100s?

Or my Bunker trap load of 7/8 oz of 7.5s that demolishes trap, SC and whatever clay targets while not punishing my aging and arthritic body?

The 1100's a fine shotgun and so are many O/Us. I really like my Beretta White Onyx Sporter for clays.

But, neither of those platforms falls in the OP's budget ($450 max) new, and a pump has the whole ammo spectrum available.

If the OP had said that his budget would run to $1500, I'd have mentioned the 1100 and 11-87 as options as well as the 391, which I think is the best auto around here and now.

[hogdogs]

Both the Mossberg and 870 fit the requirements but the 500 would need much more work than just an extender to carry more rounds as the barrel lug and end of the mag tube are both too small for shells to pass thru. That out of the way i am a rabid mossberg man. Heck if you need more than 6 rounds get a second gun...
Brent

[BigJimP]

Under $ 500 you're really in a pump gun arena. But I think you're mixing "fighting guns" with "field guns" and defeating the concept of "versatiliy" if you get over a 5 round capability.

Its my opinion that a typical field gun - pump action - with a 28" barrel with meet all of your needs in the field / and be a "Defensive weapon" if you need it - but it isn't a great "Fighting weapon" if that makes any sense.

You can certainly go to a used semi-auto like the Rem 1100, 11-87 etc / and I think they're very good guns. Personally I like the Benelli semi-autos a lot better than any of the gas operated guns / I think they shoot cleaner and cycle faster. I would stay with a 28" barrel in a used gun as well. If you have to go shorter - go to a 26" barrel - but I wouldn't go any shorter than that for a good versatile shotgun. When you go shorter - it alters the sight plane so much - as you execute the shot it just makes tracking the target and follow thru a lot tougher.

Which pump gun you pick is a personal choice - I prefer the Browning BPS - but Rem 870's etc have all proven to be good solid guns - especially the 870 Wingmaster.

Personally for Skeet, Sporting Clays and hunting I prefer an O/U with 30" barrels - and I like the same 30" barrel in a semi-auto as well because its a lighter gun / the longer barrel helps me on the follow thru with a lighter gun because its a little longer overall than a 30" O/U and the longer barrel adds a little bit of weight.

Dave - my 12ga semi-autos will cycle any 12ga load, even 3/4 oz as long as its 1200 fps or faster. I shoot a Benelli super sport 12ga. Zippy will have to answer on the 1100's - but my buddy shoots an older 1100 for his rain gun, and his will cycle loads of 3/4 oz or 7/8 oz down to 1150 fps - his gun is a custom Jack West gun, and I don't know if they messed with the internal mechanism to get it to cycle light loads or not. My Benelli super sport will not cycle any load at 1150 fps / at any variation of the amount of shot used.

[ebutler462]

Zippy, tell your friend that he doesn't need to spend $4.00 for an O-ring. They are $.35 each from the hardware. Don't buy Buna rubber. Have the hardware get him a dozen Viton #2-021 O-rings for $3.00. They last pretnear forever. I've never had to replace one.

[zippy13]

Dave McC
Happy to see you in the Mod's seat.

How well do 3/4 oz 12 gauge loads cycle in your pet 1100s?

Honestly, I've never tried 'em in my infrequently used 1100. With is natural ability to buffer recoil and the additional weight I've added to smooth out its swing, running 1-1/8 oz 2 3/4 dram target loads makes for some sweet shooting. I typically use my 1100 as loaner for newbies, and I want them to take full advantage of the standard loads. For a lesser load, I'll use a smaller gauge gun. Smoke Screen didn't mention reduced loads in shopping list. He did make reference "a newer 12 ga" and a used 1100 can be had within his budget of $450.

Sure, with a bigger budget he could have one of the new omnivorous auto-loaders or an O/U. I'm just trying to explore other options, beyond the typical Mossberg and Remington pumps, for Smoke Screen's consideration.

ebutler462
Thanks for the heads-up on the o-ring. My spare was bought some time ago and I've forgotten what I paid. So, I just googled up the price on a new OE ring.

[publius]

Remington 870, and don't let anybody fool you about the speed of a pump, if you're good w/it it's not much, if any, slower than an auto.

[Rmart30]

If ya just gotta have more than 5 shots Id say 870.......5 shots or less mossberg.

Ive got a 870 Xpress that I picked up with the 26" field barrel and the 18" HD barrel for $200. A used rifled slug barrel was $100, a choate +2 extension was $40.

When its time to go hunting the extension is removed and the 3 shot plug is reinstalled in under 5 minutes its done and back to legal hunting configuration.

If ya went mossberg new the Mavericks are under $160 at walmart with field barrel. Plain used Mossberg barrels ive seen go for a little as $20, buy ya a long cheap mossberg barrel and cut it to the legal HD length.

[jmr40]

Good suggestions already. The 870 is a good choice. I would get 26" barrel and add a 20" barrel with choke tubes and rifle sights. later . I do not think you can quite do both barrels for $450

At your budget I would also look at the Stoeger 2000 with a 24" barrel. They are very light weight and have a reputation as one of the best budget autos out there. I had one for a while and liked it a lot.

[Smoke Screen]

Thanks for the feedback so far guys, lots of good input. I guess to clarify a little bit more, I'm a tad more interested in "fighting gun" options because I still have that old 20 ga. (thanks gramps!). I've taken it out pheasant hunting with guys that have bigger 12 ga bird guns. I dropped my shot size to 5 and did better than they did, AND my last jackrabbit hunting session I managed to average 1.2 rounds per kill so I'm getting pretty proficient with hunting with it.

HOWEVER, as is mostly the case, I always invite friends/family to hunt with me. I don't like jack hunting w/my 10/22 because I can make cleaner and quicker kills with the shotty. Sooooo, I need another shotgun but wanted it to be for Home Defense with the option to hunt with it when the need arises.

I'll try out the auto loaders a little later, but want a pump right now. I know how quick I can cycle and clear successive rounds thanks to hunting desert jacks. I'm pretty interested in the 500 persuader model, and the 870 tactical. Does anyone else agree with BigJim's reply

I would stay with a 28" barrel in a used gun as well. If you have to go shorter - go to a 26" barrel - but I wouldn't go any shorter than that for a good versatile shotgun. When you go shorter - it alters the sight plane so much - as you execute the shot it just makes tracking the target and follow thru a lot tougher.

?

[Dave McC]

The older I get, the longer I like my barrels to be.

Short barrels tend to be quick when steady is what we need more.

I do find short barrels can be made to work acceptably for stuff like ringnecks and they shine in the brush for quail. However,longer barrels have some inertia that keeps the swing going.

I killed a messa geese with Frankenstein's bunty little 21" barrel. Blast in a goose blind was unpleasant with 3" steel and there were some shots that ended with Mystery Misses. The 26" LC barrel Frank wears most of the time now is better for GP stuff.

Individual ability and preferences come into play here. If I HAD to stick with one barrel length for all my pumpgun work, it'd be 26". But compromises can not be applied universally.

If you can find an 870 with a 23" barrel, that may work out well for you.

If it's defense you prefer with a little overlap into sport, get a 21-18.5" barrel and learn to use it well.

A high round count will offset a non optimal barrel length.

HTH....

[Smoke Screen]

If it's defense you prefer with a little overlap into sport, get a 21-18.5" barrel and learn to use it well.

You hit the nail right on the head Dave. Thanks for putting it into words I couldn't! I'll focus my efforts on the low 20's for barell length.

[ISC]

My shotgun is a mossburg 500 combo. It came with a 18 inch barrel, a 28 inch barrel, a buttstock, and a pistol grip. You can also get a blackpowder barrel for it.

How can you get more versatile than that?

The only thing i don't like about it is that you can't expand mag capacity on it.

[zippy13]

Originally Posted by Smoke Screen

Does anyone else agree with BigJim's reply

I'm with Jim on this one. We are both bigger than average guys with a lot of target shooting experience. Jim has a quite a collection of stick guns (pumps and auto-loaders) and shoots them. I infrequently shoot a stick gun. But, when I do, I want it to swing like my O/U's. So, for a Skeet stick gun, I prefer a 26-in barrel with some extra weight in the mag. Jim prefers a gun one size longer than I do. His observation about the sight plane is well founded. Over the years, Skeet barrels have gotten longer and the scores higher.
Your original criteria included shooting "some skeet every now and again." Hopefully you want to do as well as you can. Any shotgun configuration can successfully shoot holes in the sky -- adding broken target into the equation is another story. It's assumed you're going to get barrel with a vent rib (and a center bead) if you want more than sky holes.

Reading between the lines, our fearless moderator says a lot with his:

Originally Posted by Dave McC

The older I get, the longer I like my barrels to be.

Short barrels tend to be quick when steady is what we need more.

If you're a newer shooter this might not be totally clear. Big Jim and I are also grandparents, so we fit into Dave's definition of older. For younger and less experienced shooters, getting the bead on the bird is the first priority. A light and fast handling gun makes sense physically and mentally. If you don't get on the target quickly, it's gone.
With age and experience, that initial target acquisition is no longer rushed. You've done this so many times, first glance tells you where you're going to put your gun to get your lead. You don't need a quick gun. It's in the fine tuning of the lead and following through that the smooth swing of a longer barreled gun is desirable. My smooth shooting mentor had an axiom that seems appropriate: You've got all the time in the world, just don't take it. Dave, you're not get older, you're getting better.

Smoke Screen, since your initial question, you seem more concerned with the "fighting" capabilities of your new gun. So, how it swings on targets may be far from your mind. In keeping with your idea of an extremely versatile gun and your budget: Perhaps you might consider getting a gun with an extremely versatile potential. Get a good basic basic gun that has a wide variety of applications. Here, I concur with BigJimP, consider a Remington 870 Wingmaster over a Mossberg or 870-Express.

[rem870hunter]

buy a pump action combo, 26" vent rib that uses choke tubes and a 20"-24" rifle sighted smoothbore barrel. rem,moss,win. whichever you like and fits you and your wallet the best.

[kraigwy]

Ever wonder why the 870 is used by more police departments then any other, or why the 870 was voted the greatest shotgun ever produced.

NUF SAID