Thread muzzle pay ITAR - Page 3

**Unclenick** · August 1, 2018, 07:24 PM

HiBC, eloquently stated!

While I believe Weaslefire is correct in detail, what HiBC said is correct in principle. We should not have to be hanging on the twist of every word regulators say in fear of our rights and futures. I have to believe the founding fathers would be turning over in their graves if they knew of the power Congress would cede to regulators. It is unfathomable that they would have approved.

What struck me about the posts from two years ago was the notion that a common understanding of the meaning of manufacturing was being applied. It may be common understanding inside the beltway, but if you asked the average American citizen if he believed his local tire shop is an automobile manufacturer because they have an air sander that removes material from the tire sealing surface of a wheel and a special tool with lasers that helps them do a wheel alignment, they would say "no". Theirs was not a common understanding of manufacturing, it was a special new definition of the word. I can't recall who said to beware the purposes of government when it changes the meaning of words, but he was certainly correct; it could have been George Orwell.

Their definition of manufacturing was and is a manipulation of meaning to accrue decision making power to unelected persons who in no way have earned or deserve it. But Congress ceded power to them just the same. I consider that an abrogation of duty designed to put distance between the representative and the consequences of his decisions. It is the action of cowards desperately trying to avoid the appearance of tyranny, while nonetheless executing it.

std7mag · August 5, 2018, 11:21 AM

This message sponsored by Unclenick and HiBC for Congress..

I actually was looking at opening a gun shop with smithing services and some firearm manufacturing. Broke down like this.
Building lease. Old bank with vault and drive through.
$2,200 mo.
Electric with updated service and more 220 lines.
$150 +- mo.
Water/sewer. $120 mo.
Insurance $110 mo.

The really surprising thing to me was the insurance, as it was cheaper than the 2 cars i'm payng now. And about 1/5th of our health insurance.
I don't recall how much the liability insurance covered. Would have to pull out quote again.

The biggest issue with the ITAR definitions would be for manufacturing.
I can do what i want to my own guns, i just can't do it with the intent to sell them.

weaselfire · August 5, 2018, 05:01 PM

I appreciate the opinions of posters like HiBC and others, and understand them. My question would be how your conversations with your local legislators went. I know how mine went, the changes to ITAR being made are a result of my, and many others', conversations with those that could help alleviate the burdens.

Jeff

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

std7mag · August 6, 2018, 04:08 AM

Alas, my "conversations" with my local representative have been one sided.
I have yet to be able to talk with a human being on the phone.
No calls have been returned, no e-mails i have sent have been coresponded to.

Looking to see whom my next vote for representative is going towards.

weaselfire · August 7, 2018, 12:29 PM

Not sure my voting choice won't be "Always vote against the incumbant" at the rate things move around here.

Jeff

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

HiBC · August 7, 2018, 06:35 PM

My Congressman's name is Polis .My Senators are Bennet and Gardner.

August 1, 2018, 07:24 PM	#51
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	HiBC, eloquently stated! While I believe Weaslefire is correct in detail, what HiBC said is correct in principle. We should not have to be hanging on the twist of every word regulators say in fear of our rights and futures. I have to believe the founding fathers would be turning over in their graves if they knew of the power Congress would cede to regulators. It is unfathomable that they would have approved. What struck me about the posts from two years ago was the notion that a common understanding of the meaning of manufacturing was being applied. It may be common understanding inside the beltway, but if you asked the average American citizen if he believed his local tire shop is an automobile manufacturer because they have an air sander that removes material from the tire sealing surface of a wheel and a special tool with lasers that helps them do a wheel alignment, they would say "no". Theirs was not a common understanding of manufacturing, it was a special new definition of the word. I can't recall who said to beware the purposes of government when it changes the meaning of words, but he was certainly correct; it could have been George Orwell. Their definition of manufacturing was and is a manipulation of meaning to accrue decision making power to unelected persons who in no way have earned or deserve it. But Congress ceded power to them just the same. I consider that an abrogation of duty designed to put distance between the representative and the consequences of his decisions. It is the action of cowards desperately trying to avoid the appearance of tyranny, while nonetheless executing it. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

August 5, 2018, 11:21 AM	#52
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	This message sponsored by Unclenick and HiBC for Congress.. I actually was looking at opening a gun shop with smithing services and some firearm manufacturing. Broke down like this. Building lease. Old bank with vault and drive through. $2,200 mo. Electric with updated service and more 220 lines. $150 +- mo. Water/sewer. $120 mo. Insurance $110 mo. The really surprising thing to me was the insurance, as it was cheaper than the 2 cars i'm payng now. And about 1/5th of our health insurance. I don't recall how much the liability insurance covered. Would have to pull out quote again. The biggest issue with the ITAR definitions would be for manufacturing. I can do what i want to my own guns, i just can't do it with the intent to sell them. __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

August 6, 2018, 04:08 AM	#54
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Alas, my "conversations" with my local representative have been one sided. I have yet to be able to talk with a human being on the phone. No calls have been returned, no e-mails i have sent have been coresponded to. Looking to see whom my next vote for representative is going towards. __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

August 5, 2018, 05:01 PM	#53
weaselfire Member Join Date: January 12, 2013 Posts: 88	I appreciate the opinions of posters like HiBC and others, and understand them. My question would be how your conversations with your local legislators went. I know how mine went, the changes to ITAR being made are a result of my, and many others', conversations with those that could help alleviate the burdens. Jeff Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

August 7, 2018, 12:29 PM	#55
weaselfire Member Join Date: January 12, 2013 Posts: 88	Not sure my voting choice won't be "Always vote against the incumbant" at the rate things move around here. Jeff Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

August 7, 2018, 06:35 PM	#56
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,289	My Congressman's name is Polis .My Senators are Bennet and Gardner.