Shotgun Reloading?

kdog70 · October 11, 2009, 08:28 PM

So how hard is it? I reload for 12 rifles ranging from 17 fireball to a few Ackley Improved and a few big bores. I recently just went out and bought Stevens 512 in 28 gauge and 20 gauge. Just wondering if I should start shot gun now.

How many times can I reload a hull?

My biggest question is...

I was really hoping to reload 3inch hulls for 20 gauge 1 oz loads of 9 shot for woodcock, quail, snipe/rail. can you mix and match things like that?

thanks for all the help
kdog

oneounceload · October 11, 2009, 08:36 PM

You shouldn't need 3-inch shells for those game birds - you'll want basic, standard 2-3/4 inch loaded with #8's or 7-1/2's.

GOOD hulls, that start life as top-quality target cartridges - Remington STS, Winchester AA - will be loadable for 8-10 times, depending.....just like rifle brass, the hotter you load, the shorter their life.

28 gauge is a great gauge for birds, but shells are expensive. However, IF you're only going to shoot a flat or less per year (250), it may not be worth it to buy a loader and components for that

kdog70 · October 11, 2009, 08:38 PM

you are right I shouldn't need them but what if just in case I do....is it possible?

oneounceload · October 11, 2009, 08:40 PM

it's POSSIBLE, just not necessary...adds to the expense, not to mention the recoil. While they exist, most 3 inch 20 loads tend to pattern lousy, with lots of holes in the pattern

Shoney · October 11, 2009, 09:05 PM

oneounceload's has a valid point. I have a 20 ga 3" chamber and find the 2 3/4 1 oz loads pattern better. In addition, the hulls are less expensive and usually last longer.

I first developed 1 oz loads with Al-8, the forerunner of Blue dot. Today I find that Longshot is just as accurate as Blue Dot, and with the bonus of lower pressure and higher velocity,

roy reali · October 11, 2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

So how hard is it?

I started about a year ago. Trust me, if i can do it, anyone can. I have the mechanical ability of a Neanderthal. Actualy I shouldn't say that, they could fashion primitive weapons from sticks and stones.

oneounceload · October 11, 2009, 09:26 PM

A single stage shotgun press involves 6 pulls of the handle to start with a fired hull and turn out a new reload ready to go. IMO, a MEC Jr. is a great machine to learn on - I still use them after 25 years loading shotgun cartridges for my 20 and 28. I prefer standard 7/8 oz in 20 and 3/4 in 28 - I just change the shot size for either clays or birds. The nice thing about 20 and 28 is that they can both use the same powder.....12 usually takes something different

impalacustom · October 11, 2009, 09:56 PM

Just like the commercial, "so easy a caveman can do it". The deal with 3" is you need to change a few things on the press to reload them but they are just as easy to do as 2 3/4". I reload my hulls until the petals no longer hold shape or crack. I load 3" and 2 3/4" in 20 and 12 but hardly use the 3" anymore.

denton · October 11, 2009, 10:11 PM

The comments about the difficulties in getting 3" shells to pattern well are usually correct. There are some important exceptions. You can make 3" 20 gauge shells that will pattern well, but there are not many loads that will do that.

The best resource I have found is Tom Roster's book on bismuth and buffered shot loads. It's not a large compilation of loads. Rather, it is a few loads that pattern very well. To get that, you often have to use shot wrappers and shot buffer. Tom has worked through many many combinations and has found a few very good loads.

Long skinny packages of shot tend to have holes and strings off to the side. I quickly found that out when I bought some 3" magnum commercial shells for a 20 gauge. Also, it is very difficult to get anything larger than about #5 shot to pattern well in a 20 gauge. The largest shot for a 28 gauge would be smaller yet.

Really hard, round shot makes a big difference. I was given about 30 pounds of assorted cheap shot. I haven't figured out what to do with it, because it definitely does not pattern as well as the better quality shot I already had. So make sure you get quality shot.

High performance shotshells are not cheap or quick to make.

oneounceload · October 11, 2009, 10:16 PM

Take your mixed shot and make some basic practice loads for the trap/skeet/5-stand course at your local club.....

Fiocchi makes their Golden Pheasant load in 28 gauge with 6 or 5 - but they're using clad shot and buffering - IIRC B&P does as well

LHB1 · October 11, 2009, 10:27 PM

Kdog,
There is one major difference in loading shotgun shells vs rifle or pistol. With shotgun shells, the type and weight of powder must not only be correct for the weight of shot but the volume of powder, wad, and shot must also fill up the case to the correct level for proper crimping. With rifle and pistol shells, it is OK to have some or even substantial amount of air space in the case but this is NOT proper in shotgun shells. Mixing and matching of shot shell cases is also NOT recommended due to different internal volumes and dimensions. IT IS HIGHLY RECOMMENDED THAT YOU SELECT A SINGLE BRAND AND TYPE OF HULL, THEN FIND THE RECIPE FOR THE EXACT LOAD YOU WANT USING THAT HULL. OR FIND THE RECIPE YOU WANT, THEN OBTAIN THE SPECIFIC BRAND, TYPE OF HULL, WAD, POWDER, AND SHOT. Load this recipe exactly as given. Deviations from this recipe are NOT recommended.

kdog70 · October 11, 2009, 10:46 PM

thanks for the help and responses so what do I need to start it up. mise well keep my spending spree going...i mean hey the make money every day.

Press
powder
primer
shot
hull
wads

Charger bar and powder bushings??

denton · October 11, 2009, 10:51 PM

Used MEC 650 Jr., about $75
Couple of load books, $20 each
Read a lot, then pick out your components.
AA hulls are internally tapered, hence hold less, and are great for target loads.
It isn't worth the cost and hassle to change a press from one gauge to another. Most guys just buy a separate press for each gauge.

.45 COLT · October 11, 2009, 11:36 PM

When you look at presses, check out any MEC's Sizemaster.. I have both 600 jrs and Sizemasters, The Sizemaster is more press. Also, if you look at used presses stay away from discontinued models. A lot of them out there, and low priced, but parts aren't available and some models won't do plastic shells.

DC

oneounceload · October 12, 2009, 08:24 AM

kdog - also add a scale if you don't already have one from metallic reloading - the bushings that are used to drop shot and powder are APPROXIMATE - and if you're +/- just a tiny bit, no biggie, but if you're starting to get a few grains of powder off, etc. then you need to know about it.

Besides the infamous Lyman book, you can get data from the powder maker sites. There are wads out there that are duplicates of the more expensive OEM brands. Winchester, Federal, and Remington wads are more expensive. Claybuster, Downrange, among others make clones of the big three that you can substitute in a recipe.

Remember, pressures for shotgun are typically no where near what they are for metallic, so watch your loadings. Light, fast powders with heavier field loads will really increase pressures to a point that they MAY be unsafe.

Have fun

BigJimP · October 12, 2009, 12:15 PM

You've gotten good advice - and I'm just another voice saying, yes its easy to reload shotshells. Personally, I load 12, 20, 28ga and .410 - as well as a number of metallic.

First thing - pick a hull for each gague - and stay with it. Remington STS is one of the better and stronger hulls / will give you longer life.

Depending on what kind of components you have access to - I'd say if you go with Rem STS hulls, stay with Remington components to start with in terms of Wad and primer. To keep it simple - one of the more versatile powders for 20ga and 28ga is Hodgdon Universal ( its a little dirty in 20ga, but very good in 28ga ) - if you want to use 2 powders then I'd suggest Hodgdon International for 20ga / and Universal for 28ga. Depending on what you like in terms of handgun loads - you'll find a number of published recipes in popular calibers like 9mm and .45 acp for Hodgdon Universal as well.

You can't mix primers like you do in metallic - where small pistol primers are all the same - in shotshells - 209 primers are not the same - Win 209, Rem209, etc are all different - so consult your manual for a recipe.

olddrum1 · October 12, 2009, 11:08 PM

Is it possible, yes. Is it practical, no. The reason is you are trying to fill a 3 inch hull with only 1 ounce of shot. You will need to find a recipe that gives the correct wad, powder, and primer to do this. I have checked a couple of my books and my online source and it seem that the common load for a 3 inch hull is an 1 1/8 ounce of shot. More practical to run a 2 3/4 inch hull. Simplfys the problem. You can always use shot cards but thats really a pain.
Let us know how this project turns out.

elwaynum1 · October 12, 2009, 11:19 PM

I'm curious, considering the price of factory shotgun shells (in my case 12 gauge lead shot), is it worthwhile to reload shotgun shells? Economical?

oneounceload · October 13, 2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

I'm curious, considering the price of factory shotgun shells (in my case 12 gauge lead shot), is it worthwhile to reload shotgun shells? Economical?

The answer is......It depends.

Are you going to be shooting a lot of targets during the year?? (5,000 or so or more?)

Are you wanting to develop some specific load for targets or hunting that you can't find? (Maybe a light charge weight or similar?

If you're shooting a lot or wanting to develop a load for a specific purpose, like waterfowling, then yes it can be economical.....especially if you acquire used equipment and go in with friends on a bulk order of components.

BigJimP · October 13, 2009, 10:09 AM

Is it economical - yes, even today you'll save close to $ 2 a box or maybe a little more.

But most of us - would reload even if the cost benefit was a push..... I like shooting my own customized shells.

aerod1 · October 13, 2009, 11:23 AM

You have been given good advice. It is easy and fun.
I would also look at the Ponsness Warren presses because the crimps made on a PW press look like factory crimps. I am partial because that's the only brand I have ever used.

oneounceload · October 13, 2009, 12:07 PM

Where I was going in my last post was that basically, if you're only shooting a flat of shells a year - a round or two of skeet to warmup, then some dove, maybe a little pheasant or rabbit or whatever, you would probably be better off catching your ammo on sale right before or after the season and stocking up - even if it was a buck or two per box more. That is, unless you LIKE to reload - then the added cost and time is a non-issue.

I have some folks that for them, time is too valuable to bother with reloading - and that includes not only 28 gauge shells, but in the case of one, even 50BMG...

...THAT'S some serious coin per shot - to each their own

It can be fun, a learning experience, you can get satisfaction knowing you "rolled your own" to take that target or bird - shoot, reload, shoot some more

October 11, 2009, 08:28 PM	#1
kdog70 Member Join Date: September 18, 2008 Location: Marquette,Mi Posts: 89	Shotgun Reloading? So how hard is it? I reload for 12 rifles ranging from 17 fireball to a few Ackley Improved and a few big bores. I recently just went out and bought Stevens 512 in 28 gauge and 20 gauge. Just wondering if I should start shot gun now. How many times can I reload a hull? My biggest question is... I was really hoping to reload 3inch hulls for 20 gauge 1 oz loads of 9 shot for woodcock, quail, snipe/rail. can you mix and match things like that? thanks for all the help kdog

October 11, 2009, 10:27 PM	#11
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	Kdog, There is one major difference in loading shotgun shells vs rifle or pistol. With shotgun shells, the type and weight of powder must not only be correct for the weight of shot but the volume of powder, wad, and shot must also fill up the case to the correct level for proper crimping. With rifle and pistol shells, it is OK to have some or even substantial amount of air space in the case but this is NOT proper in shotgun shells. Mixing and matching of shot shell cases is also NOT recommended due to different internal volumes and dimensions. IT IS HIGHLY RECOMMENDED THAT YOU SELECT A SINGLE BRAND AND TYPE OF HULL, THEN FIND THE RECIPE FOR THE EXACT LOAD YOU WANT USING THAT HULL. OR FIND THE RECIPE YOU WANT, THEN OBTAIN THE SPECIFIC BRAND, TYPE OF HULL, WAD, POWDER, AND SHOT. Load this recipe exactly as given. Deviations from this recipe are NOT recommended. __________________ Good shooting and be safe. LB Last edited by LHB1; October 11, 2009 at 11:32 PM.

October 13, 2009, 11:23 AM	#21
aerod1 Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2000 Location: Garland Texas U.S.A. Posts: 734	You have been given good advice. It is easy and fun. I would also look at the Ponsness Warren presses because the crimps made on a PW press look like factory crimps. I am partial because that's the only brand I have ever used. __________________ NRA Life Member, TSRA Life Member, C&R 03 FFL, Texas LTC Recreational Reloader U.S. Navy Veteran (USS Midway V-1 Division)

October 13, 2009, 12:07 PM	#22
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Where I was going in my last post was that basically, if you're only shooting a flat of shells a year - a round or two of skeet to warmup, then some dove, maybe a little pheasant or rabbit or whatever, you would probably be better off catching your ammo on sale right before or after the season and stocking up - even if it was a buck or two per box more. That is, unless you LIKE to reload - then the added cost and time is a non-issue. I have some folks that for them, time is too valuable to bother with reloading - and that includes not only 28 gauge shells, but in the case of one, even 50BMG......THAT'S some serious coin per shot - to each their own It can be fun, a learning experience, you can get satisfaction knowing you "rolled your own" to take that target or bird - shoot, reload, shoot some more

October 11, 2009, 08:36 PM	#2
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	You shouldn't need 3-inch shells for those game birds - you'll want basic, standard 2-3/4 inch loaded with #8's or 7-1/2's. GOOD hulls, that start life as top-quality target cartridges - Remington STS, Winchester AA - will be loadable for 8-10 times, depending.....just like rifle brass, the hotter you load, the shorter their life. 28 gauge is a great gauge for birds, but shells are expensive. However, IF you're only going to shoot a flat or less per year (250), it may not be worth it to buy a loader and components for that

October 11, 2009, 08:38 PM	#3
kdog70 Member Join Date: September 18, 2008 Location: Marquette,Mi Posts: 89	you are right I shouldn't need them but what if just in case I do....is it possible?

October 11, 2009, 08:40 PM	#4
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	it's POSSIBLE, just not necessary...adds to the expense, not to mention the recoil. While they exist, most 3 inch 20 loads tend to pattern lousy, with lots of holes in the pattern

October 11, 2009, 09:05 PM	#5
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	oneounceload's has a valid point. I have a 20 ga 3" chamber and find the 2 3/4 1 oz loads pattern better. In addition, the hulls are less expensive and usually last longer. I first developed 1 oz loads with Al-8, the forerunner of Blue dot. Today I find that Longshot is just as accurate as Blue Dot, and with the bonus of lower pressure and higher velocity, __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

October 11, 2009, 09:26 PM	#7
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	A single stage shotgun press involves 6 pulls of the handle to start with a fired hull and turn out a new reload ready to go. IMO, a MEC Jr. is a great machine to learn on - I still use them after 25 years loading shotgun cartridges for my 20 and 28. I prefer standard 7/8 oz in 20 and 3/4 in 28 - I just change the shot size for either clays or birds. The nice thing about 20 and 28 is that they can both use the same powder.....12 usually takes something different

October 11, 2009, 09:56 PM	#8
impalacustom Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 492	Just like the commercial, "so easy a caveman can do it". The deal with 3" is you need to change a few things on the press to reload them but they are just as easy to do as 2 3/4". I reload my hulls until the petals no longer hold shape or crack. I load 3" and 2 3/4" in 20 and 12 but hardly use the 3" anymore.

October 11, 2009, 10:11 PM	#9
denton Junior Member Join Date: October 10, 2009 Posts: 6	The comments about the difficulties in getting 3" shells to pattern well are usually correct. There are some important exceptions. You can make 3" 20 gauge shells that will pattern well, but there are not many loads that will do that. The best resource I have found is Tom Roster's book on bismuth and buffered shot loads. It's not a large compilation of loads. Rather, it is a few loads that pattern very well. To get that, you often have to use shot wrappers and shot buffer. Tom has worked through many many combinations and has found a few very good loads. Long skinny packages of shot tend to have holes and strings off to the side. I quickly found that out when I bought some 3" magnum commercial shells for a 20 gauge. Also, it is very difficult to get anything larger than about #5 shot to pattern well in a 20 gauge. The largest shot for a 28 gauge would be smaller yet. Really hard, round shot makes a big difference. I was given about 30 pounds of assorted cheap shot. I haven't figured out what to do with it, because it definitely does not pattern as well as the better quality shot I already had. So make sure you get quality shot. High performance shotshells are not cheap or quick to make.

October 11, 2009, 10:16 PM	#10
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Take your mixed shot and make some basic practice loads for the trap/skeet/5-stand course at your local club..... Fiocchi makes their Golden Pheasant load in 28 gauge with 6 or 5 - but they're using clad shot and buffering - IIRC B&P does as well

October 11, 2009, 10:46 PM	#12
kdog70 Member Join Date: September 18, 2008 Location: Marquette,Mi Posts: 89	thanks for the help and responses so what do I need to start it up. mise well keep my spending spree going...i mean hey the make money every day. Press powder primer shot hull wads Charger bar and powder bushings??

October 11, 2009, 10:51 PM	#13
denton Junior Member Join Date: October 10, 2009 Posts: 6	Used MEC 650 Jr., about $75 Couple of load books, $20 each Read a lot, then pick out your components. AA hulls are internally tapered, hence hold less, and are great for target loads. It isn't worth the cost and hassle to change a press from one gauge to another. Most guys just buy a separate press for each gauge.

October 11, 2009, 11:36 PM	#14
.45 COLT Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 308	When you look at presses, check out any MEC's Sizemaster.. I have both 600 jrs and Sizemasters, The Sizemaster is more press. Also, if you look at used presses stay away from discontinued models. A lot of them out there, and low priced, but parts aren't available and some models won't do plastic shells. DC

October 12, 2009, 08:24 AM	#15
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	kdog - also add a scale if you don't already have one from metallic reloading - the bushings that are used to drop shot and powder are APPROXIMATE - and if you're +/- just a tiny bit, no biggie, but if you're starting to get a few grains of powder off, etc. then you need to know about it. Besides the infamous Lyman book, you can get data from the powder maker sites. There are wads out there that are duplicates of the more expensive OEM brands. Winchester, Federal, and Remington wads are more expensive. Claybuster, Downrange, among others make clones of the big three that you can substitute in a recipe. Remember, pressures for shotgun are typically no where near what they are for metallic, so watch your loadings. Light, fast powders with heavier field loads will really increase pressures to a point that they MAY be unsafe. Have fun

October 12, 2009, 12:15 PM	#16
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	You've gotten good advice - and I'm just another voice saying, yes its easy to reload shotshells. Personally, I load 12, 20, 28ga and .410 - as well as a number of metallic. First thing - pick a hull for each gague - and stay with it. Remington STS is one of the better and stronger hulls / will give you longer life. Depending on what kind of components you have access to - I'd say if you go with Rem STS hulls, stay with Remington components to start with in terms of Wad and primer. To keep it simple - one of the more versatile powders for 20ga and 28ga is Hodgdon Universal ( its a little dirty in 20ga, but very good in 28ga ) - if you want to use 2 powders then I'd suggest Hodgdon International for 20ga / and Universal for 28ga. Depending on what you like in terms of handgun loads - you'll find a number of published recipes in popular calibers like 9mm and .45 acp for Hodgdon Universal as well. You can't mix primers like you do in metallic - where small pistol primers are all the same - in shotshells - 209 primers are not the same - Win 209, Rem209, etc are all different - so consult your manual for a recipe.

October 12, 2009, 11:08 PM	#17
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	Is it possible, yes. Is it practical, no. The reason is you are trying to fill a 3 inch hull with only 1 ounce of shot. You will need to find a recipe that gives the correct wad, powder, and primer to do this. I have checked a couple of my books and my online source and it seem that the common load for a 3 inch hull is an 1 1/8 ounce of shot. More practical to run a 2 3/4 inch hull. Simplfys the problem. You can always use shot cards but thats really a pain. Let us know how this project turns out.

October 12, 2009, 11:19 PM	#18
elwaynum1 Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 85	I'm curious, considering the price of factory shotgun shells (in my case 12 gauge lead shot), is it worthwhile to reload shotgun shells? Economical?

October 13, 2009, 10:09 AM	#20
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Is it economical - yes, even today you'll save close to $ 2 a box or maybe a little more. But most of us - would reload even if the cost benefit was a push..... I like shooting my own customized shells.