My redding die lock nut is stuck

micksis86 · October 5, 2009, 02:11 AM

I just went to clean my reloading dies, and on all my redding dies the lock nut is stuck fast when I undo the locking screwn it on't budge.
Any suggestions as to how i can get them undone?

SL1 · October 5, 2009, 06:07 AM

WD-40?

**Unclenick** · October 5, 2009, 08:12 AM

It can't hurt to apply a little penetrating oil, like PB Blaster or Kroil and let it work overnight. I'm concerned you may have dinged the threads up, but hope not. Lowes and Home Depot both were selling strap wrenches last time I looked. Loop one around the knurling to get a good grip to loosen it.

SL1 · October 5, 2009, 08:45 AM

I thought that Redding put a little plastic bead under the set-screw on their locking rings. You can lose it quite easily if you ever remove the ring from the die, and that CAN cause you to ding the threads with the screw when you retighten them later. Could you have done that?

I always put a lead shot in the set screw-hole if I have one without a plastic bead. If you have a bead under the screw and you tighten the set screw hard, either the plastic or lead will deform to the big threads on the die body AND to the small threads in the locking ring set screw hole. So, after loosening or even removing the set screw, the ring does not easily rotate, and needs to be broken free. Usually I can do that by hand, but sometimes need a pair of pliars.

SL1

snuffy · October 5, 2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

I just went to clean my reloading dies, and on all my redding dies the lock nut is stuck fast when I undo the locking screwn it won't budge.
Any suggestions as to how i can get them undone?

Time for an old mans tricks in reloading post. Ya gotta use momentum to get it loose. With the set screw loose, but still screwed into the hole, take the whole die, rap it against the head of the set screw on something real solid and hard. I use the corner of the press. The sudden stop will cause the plastic or lead BB to move away from the threads enough to allow you to turn the lock ring.

If the set screw is brass, be careful to NOT deform it so you can't get the allen wrench into it. If it's a screw slot, then it's not such a problem.

mkl · October 5, 2009, 01:15 PM

Same thing on the older RCBS dies with the lead pellet under the lock screw.

After you loosen the lock screw, take a plastic hammer and give the lock ring a sharp rap.

Frees it up immediately with no damage to the ring.

Been doing that for 35 years on some of my old RCBS dies.

Works like a charm

Edit: Hold the die in you hand when you strike it with the plasic hammer as opposed to laying it on a bench. You want some "give" when the die is hit.

Foxbat · October 5, 2009, 01:32 PM

Both the ideas above will work, and also simply putting the die in the vise with brass or aluminum grips will work too.

However... the whole idea of driving a set screw into a thread is totally bone-headed, given that there are much better approaches, such as split rings. No good engineer will make such a decision.

micksis86 · October 5, 2009, 04:15 PM

I'll give those a try. Thanks very much for your help.

Thirties · October 5, 2009, 04:18 PM

"I just went to clean my reloading dies, and on all my Redding dies the lock nut is stuck fast when I undo the locking screw it won't budge.
Any suggestions as to how i can get them undone?"

Easy method . . . unscrew the locked die a few turns so there is some space below the set screw.

Then unscrew the set screw a turn or two, still keeping it in the threads.

With a plastic hammer, whack the end of the set screw -- not real hard, but more than a tap.

You should now be able to loosen the licking nut.

Don't take the set screw out. There is no need to remove it, and you will loose it.

BigJakeJ1s · October 5, 2009, 09:15 PM

+1 for split ring (aka cross-bolt) lock rings. Forster and Hornady both sell them separately and with their dies. Lyman sells an aftermarket cross-bolt lock ring, but includes set screw rings with their dies (go figure). The ORIGINAL lock rings from RCBS were cross-bolt types too, before they switched to set screws.

Not only do set screws risk buggering up the threads (and/or losing the plastic or lead shot pellet buffer), they decenter the lock ring on the die, which tilts it on the threads when tightened against the press. Cross-bolt lock rings not only stay put and loosen reliably, they stay centered on the die as they are tightened, and stay square to the die threads.

Andy

SL1 · October 5, 2009, 09:29 PM

Actually, cross-bolt rings do tilt the ring a little when they are tightened, because they change the radius of the ring a little, which shifts the ends at the cut up and down a little on opposite sides. You can tell by the way they get tighter against the press and make the die hard to remove when you tighten them down with the ring snug against the press to begin with.

For the "bee's knees" of non-tilting tightening of lock rings, drill 2 more set screw holes at 120° off-sets from the first one and tighten them all evenly. Or, use two rings and screw then together tightly.

SL1

BigJakeJ1s · October 6, 2009, 09:21 PM

That depends on how the split ring was threaded in the first place. If it was threaded while in the closed (or semi-closed) position, then it would be tilted while loose, and straight when tightened. This has been my experience with them. I have checked for, and never found, and offset from one side of the split and the other while tightened on a die. I have seen it when loose.

The reason the split lock ring jams against the press when tightened is not because it tilts, but because the ring threads are riding against the undersides of the die threads while the cross bolt is loose and the die is lightly jammed against the press. But when the cross bolt is tightened, the ring threads settle into the centers of the die threads threads, and thus closer to the press, jamming it tighter.

Single set screw and doubled lock rings will also jam against the press when tightened. The single set screw rings will jam on one side (opposite the set screw), while the doubled rings will jam evenly all around, like a split ring.

Andy

SL1 · October 7, 2009, 07:41 AM

BigJakej1s is correct that any devise that reduces the diameter of the lock ring will make the large threads on the ring act as wedges between the threads on the die and the top of the press, making it tight on the press.

But, the "cross-bolt" type lock rings that I looked at (quite a few years ago) DID have some off-set across the gap when tightened on my dies. I guess a little is inevitable, due to the variation in the threads in each from the manufacturing processes.

When using the set-screw type rings, where I have put beads of lead or plastic under the screws, those beads deform to exactly fit the large threads on the die quite closely. Once deformed and then reloosened just enough to allow the die to be adjusted, it seems to not get wedged to the press when retightened. (But, as the OP indicates, the rings do get wedged to the DIES when these set-screws are tight, and they need to be broken loose as described above.

SL1

F. Guffey · October 7, 2009, 08:11 AM

I never secure the lock nut to the die, I secure the die to the press with the lock nut, I use the lock nut to remove the slack between the press and die, and I adjust the die every time.

If one of my dies has a secured lock nut it means it is not one of my dies or I have never used it.

F. Guffey

BigJakeJ1s · October 7, 2009, 09:17 PM

That's interesting. If I temporarily change the setup on a die, I leave the lock ring loose. The only time it is tightened is if it has been set up and verified for the load I normally use. If it is loose, then I know it needs setting up again.

To each his own, but what is most important in this hobby is that we both have a clear and consistent way of doing things the same way every time.

Andy

GLShooter · October 14, 2009, 05:03 PM

I just loosen the set screw and tap the die ring on a piece of 4X4 here in the reloading room. It loosens up easily. (I then change to Hornady split rings!! LOL)

Greg

Tomas204 · October 14, 2009, 05:18 PM

Yeah the lock rings with set screws are No Beuno I got all my dies with the split ring ,btw there is no way to properly thread them with the split they are slotted after the threads are cut ,you would never get concentric threads .........

micksis86 · October 16, 2009, 03:46 AM

Well thanks for all your help. I did what mkl suggested and loosened the lock nut a bit and hit it with a plastic hammer, it worked a charm. Once i had them off just lubed the thread lightly and no more problem. Thanks again.

F. Guffey · October 16, 2009, 07:06 AM

7/8 X 14 (bolt and nut) threads are common and available from most hardware type retailers, the difference in design between bolts and nuts is more about the user then the use.

http://www.machinetoolhelp.com/Repai...que-chart.html

The torque on a cheap/dry 7/8 X 14 bolt could be 580 foot pounds, excessive and not necessary and I doubt the press, die and mounting system would survive the stress, that is the reason the die lock nut is different in design, the die lock nut is short with as few as 3 engaged threads, the design protect the die, press and lock nut from the user, still I purchase used equipment with knurled lock nuts that have been chewed up with the use of a pipe wrenches and or pliers. The lock nut secures the die by removing thread slack between the the die and press. My favorite locking design is with the use of two nuts jammed together with skinny wrenches, the problem with that design is holding the adjustment and jamming the two nuts together (technique acquired or learned, same technique used when assembling tubing), then there is the Teflon self locking nut, in that case the die must be held to hold the adjustment while the nut is secured, in the old days some dies manufactures had a hex head die for that purpose.

F. Guffey

October 5, 2009, 02:11 AM	#1
micksis86 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2009 Posts: 420	My redding die lock nut is stuck I just went to clean my reloading dies, and on all my redding dies the lock nut is stuck fast when I undo the locking screwn it on't budge. Any suggestions as to how i can get them undone?

October 5, 2009, 08:12 AM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	It can't hurt to apply a little penetrating oil, like PB Blaster or Kroil and let it work overnight. I'm concerned you may have dinged the threads up, but hope not. Lowes and Home Depot both were selling strap wrenches last time I looked. Loop one around the knurling to get a good grip to loosen it. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 5, 2009, 01:15 PM	#6
mkl Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Location: DFW area, Texas Posts: 494	Same thing on the older RCBS dies with the lead pellet under the lock screw. After you loosen the lock screw, take a plastic hammer and give the lock ring a sharp rap. Frees it up immediately with no damage to the ring. Been doing that for 35 years on some of my old RCBS dies. Works like a charm Edit: Hold the die in you hand when you strike it with the plasic hammer as opposed to laying it on a bench. You want some "give" when the die is hit. Last edited by mkl; October 5, 2009 at 01:23 PM. Reason: added last sentence

October 7, 2009, 07:41 AM	#13
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	Now that I think about it BigJakej1s is correct that any devise that reduces the diameter of the lock ring will make the large threads on the ring act as wedges between the threads on the die and the top of the press, making it tight on the press. But, the "cross-bolt" type lock rings that I looked at (quite a few years ago) DID have some off-set across the gap when tightened on my dies. I guess a little is inevitable, due to the variation in the threads in each from the manufacturing processes. When using the set-screw type rings, where I have put beads of lead or plastic under the screws, those beads deform to exactly fit the large threads on the die quite closely. Once deformed and then reloosened just enough to allow the die to be adjusted, it seems to not get wedged to the press when retightened. (But, as the OP indicates, the rings do get wedged to the DIES when these set-screws are tight, and they need to be broken loose as described above. SL1

October 5, 2009, 06:07 AM	#2
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	WD-40?

October 5, 2009, 08:45 AM	#4
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	I thought that Redding put a little plastic bead under the set-screw on their locking rings. You can lose it quite easily if you ever remove the ring from the die, and that CAN cause you to ding the threads with the screw when you retighten them later. Could you have done that? I always put a lead shot in the set screw-hole if I have one without a plastic bead. If you have a bead under the screw and you tighten the set screw hard, either the plastic or lead will deform to the big threads on the die body AND to the small threads in the locking ring set screw hole. So, after loosening or even removing the set screw, the ring does not easily rotate, and needs to be broken free. Usually I can do that by hand, but sometimes need a pair of pliars. SL1

October 5, 2009, 01:32 PM	#7
Foxbat Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2008 Posts: 367	Both the ideas above will work, and also simply putting the die in the vise with brass or aluminum grips will work too. However... the whole idea of driving a set screw into a thread is totally bone-headed, given that there are much better approaches, such as split rings. No good engineer will make such a decision.

October 5, 2009, 04:15 PM	#8
micksis86 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2009 Posts: 420	I'll give those a try. Thanks very much for your help.

October 5, 2009, 04:18 PM	#9
Thirties Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2001 Location: Where the Red Sox meet the Black Bears Posts: 561	"I just went to clean my reloading dies, and on all my Redding dies the lock nut is stuck fast when I undo the locking screw it won't budge. Any suggestions as to how i can get them undone?" Easy method . . . unscrew the locked die a few turns so there is some space below the set screw. Then unscrew the set screw a turn or two, still keeping it in the threads. With a plastic hammer, whack the end of the set screw -- not real hard, but more than a tap. You should now be able to loosen the licking nut. Don't take the set screw out. There is no need to remove it, and you will loose it.

October 5, 2009, 09:15 PM	#10
BigJakeJ1s Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 663	+1 for split ring (aka cross-bolt) lock rings. Forster and Hornady both sell them separately and with their dies. Lyman sells an aftermarket cross-bolt lock ring, but includes set screw rings with their dies (go figure). The ORIGINAL lock rings from RCBS were cross-bolt types too, before they switched to set screws. Not only do set screws risk buggering up the threads (and/or losing the plastic or lead shot pellet buffer), they decenter the lock ring on the die, which tilts it on the threads when tightened against the press. Cross-bolt lock rings not only stay put and loosen reliably, they stay centered on the die as they are tightened, and stay square to the die threads. Andy

October 5, 2009, 09:29 PM	#11
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	Actually, cross-bolt rings do tilt the ring a little when they are tightened, because they change the radius of the ring a little, which shifts the ends at the cut up and down a little on opposite sides. You can tell by the way they get tighter against the press and make the die hard to remove when you tighten them down with the ring snug against the press to begin with. For the "bee's knees" of non-tilting tightening of lock rings, drill 2 more set screw holes at 120° off-sets from the first one and tighten them all evenly. Or, use two rings and screw then together tightly. SL1

October 6, 2009, 09:21 PM	#12
BigJakeJ1s Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 663	That depends on how the split ring was threaded in the first place. If it was threaded while in the closed (or semi-closed) position, then it would be tilted while loose, and straight when tightened. This has been my experience with them. I have checked for, and never found, and offset from one side of the split and the other while tightened on a die. I have seen it when loose. The reason the split lock ring jams against the press when tightened is not because it tilts, but because the ring threads are riding against the undersides of the die threads while the cross bolt is loose and the die is lightly jammed against the press. But when the cross bolt is tightened, the ring threads settle into the centers of the die threads threads, and thus closer to the press, jamming it tighter. Single set screw and doubled lock rings will also jam against the press when tightened. The single set screw rings will jam on one side (opposite the set screw), while the doubled rings will jam evenly all around, like a split ring. Andy

October 7, 2009, 08:11 AM	#14
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I never secure the lock nut to the die, I secure the die to the press with the lock nut, I use the lock nut to remove the slack between the press and die, and I adjust the die every time. If one of my dies has a secured lock nut it means it is not one of my dies or I have never used it. F. Guffey

October 7, 2009, 09:17 PM	#15
BigJakeJ1s Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 663	That's interesting. If I temporarily change the setup on a die, I leave the lock ring loose. The only time it is tightened is if it has been set up and verified for the load I normally use. If it is loose, then I know it needs setting up again. To each his own, but what is most important in this hobby is that we both have a clear and consistent way of doing things the same way every time. Andy

October 14, 2009, 05:03 PM	#16
GLShooter Member Join Date: September 15, 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 47	I just loosen the set screw and tap the die ring on a piece of 4X4 here in the reloading room. It loosens up easily. (I then change to Hornady split rings!! LOL) Greg

October 14, 2009, 05:18 PM	#17
Tomas204 Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 144	Yeah the lock rings with set screws are No Beuno I got all my dies with the split ring ,btw there is no way to properly thread them with the split they are slotted after the threads are cut ,you would never get concentric threads .........

October 16, 2009, 03:46 AM	#18
micksis86 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2009 Posts: 420	Well thanks for all your help. I did what mkl suggested and loosened the lock nut a bit and hit it with a plastic hammer, it worked a charm. Once i had them off just lubed the thread lightly and no more problem. Thanks again.

October 16, 2009, 07:06 AM	#19
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	7/8 X 14 (bolt and nut) threads are common and available from most hardware type retailers, the difference in design between bolts and nuts is more about the user then the use. http://www.machinetoolhelp.com/Repai...que-chart.html The torque on a cheap/dry 7/8 X 14 bolt could be 580 foot pounds, excessive and not necessary and I doubt the press, die and mounting system would survive the stress, that is the reason the die lock nut is different in design, the die lock nut is short with as few as 3 engaged threads, the design protect the die, press and lock nut from the user, still I purchase used equipment with knurled lock nuts that have been chewed up with the use of a pipe wrenches and or pliers. The lock nut secures the die by removing thread slack between the the die and press. My favorite locking design is with the use of two nuts jammed together with skinny wrenches, the problem with that design is holding the adjustment and jamming the two nuts together (technique acquired or learned, same technique used when assembling tubing), then there is the Teflon self locking nut, in that case the die must be held to hold the adjustment while the nut is secured, in the old days some dies manufactures had a hex head die for that purpose. F. Guffey