chrony help

[bigted1956]

yep its true...i been shooting and handrolling for years and never...yep never chrony'ed any of my loads.

always thought it would be very expensive to aquire one so never gave it much thought till recent. now its a burning desire to find out fo sho just what my pet loads are really doing and not doing. problem is that now i look and find a whole bunch of chrony's for sale and me without a clue as to which one to start with.

i know that opinions are many and specific to individules but....please help a poor ol stumbling fart that has had his head in the sand for all these years.
Ted

[Smokey Joe]

Big Ted 1956--If what you want is fps velocity of yr loads, any chronograph on the market will do that for you. Get whatever you can for cheap. The basic models aren't that expensive, and if you wait a while and watch the ads, they often go on sale.

According to what I've read in gun mags, every chronograph on the marked nowadays is plenty accurate for our purposes. They don't seem to disagree by enough to signify, when tested side by side.

Now, if you want more than just fps, you will have to pay more, but IMHO it is well worth the (not much) added expense. Like you, I too didn't know anything much about a chrony when I stumbled upon a deal on a Shooting Chrony Gamma Master model, which is their top-of-the-line, all-the-bells-&-whistles model. So I somewhat reluctantly bought it. Boy, am I happy!

It has a readout at the shooting bench, not out front where the sensors are. The controls are back where I shoot, too. (This makes it cheaper to fix when/as/if you shoot the sensor, BTW!) Best of all, it adds up shot strings of 10, and does all the math so I get high, low and average velocities, plus standard deviation among the shots, AND prints all that out on adding-machine tape! What's not to like????

I concentrate on shooting, not on writing down numbers or doing math on a calculator. Frankly, it's great, I didn't know how great until I started using it. But now, I'll never look back.

Shooting Chrony's can be upgraded, so if you get less than top-of-the-line you can add more bells & whistles later if you want.

While I'm on the subject, I bought a used fishing tackle box @ a garage sale, into which fit the Shooting Chrony, its control pad/printer, spare batteries and adding machine tape, and etc, etc, etc. All I have to throw in the car when I want velocities is that tackle box plus a photographic tripod. (You need a base to hold up the sensor unit.) The El Cheapo model tripod from Wal-Mart works just fine, BTW.

Oh, and you'll want to replace the steel rods that hold up the sun screens on your sensor unit, with plastic or wood rods. This is so that when, not if, you shoot the rods, the rods get damaged but not the sensor unit base nor the screen above it.

Hope you get a chronograph that works for you, and that you enjoy its use for many years.

[amamnn]

I have a Beta master which is much the same except that mine will memorize 6 ten shot groups only. The master version of any of the Shooting Chronys is the way to go, IMHO. I had one of Ken Oehler's very good machines until a "friend" shot it. I can't say it was any more accurate.

If you have a laser bore sighter it will be a great help in setting up the chrony and assuring that the bullet's path is in the sweet spot of the sensor fields.

Some people I know personally and a few online have been complaining about the PACT chrony--which was a big surprise to me; I have always considered PACT stuff to be good quality. Maybe they've fixed the problems with it by now.


I don't use a chrony much anymore, In fact, the only time I use it is when I am experiencing odd problems with a known good load or a new load that I think should be doing better than it is. It's interesting to see how fast bullets are going and how close you can load a cartridge to published specs, but that loses its novelty after a few years. I consider a very good set of wind flags to be of more value than a chronograph for my use.

[PCJim]

I have a Chrony Beta Master and find it more than suitable for testing my loads. I agree that once your pet loads are developed and tested, you may not use the chrony much. Consider this when considering the amount of your investment.

[Brian Pfleuger]

I have a Chrony Beta (non-master). It works just fine for me. I personally have no use for printing or a screen on my shooting bench so I see no need for the pricier models.

[TheNatureBoy]

Welcome aboard BigTed1956. I too have a Chrony Beta Master and am very pleased with it. The only time I use it is when I load with a different powder, bullet, primer, etc. If I load with data that I've been using a while I don't bother. I do intend to chrony some loads when the weather gets colder just to see if there is a drastic change in fps. They are fairly inexpensive and in my opinion a good investment for all reloaders.

[Smokey Joe]

Peetzakilla--

I personally have no use for printing or a screen on my shooting bench so I see no need for the pricier models.

You print up the data, note on the tape which load it's for, take it home and tape it to the relevant page in your reloaders' logbook. That's what makes the printer worthwhile IMHO.

The standard deviation is particularly interesting, BTW--that tells you how (in)consistent your loads are. The rule of thumb is, in the teens fps for an SD, stunningly great! Below the teens--you probably made some sort of mistake in the setting up of the chrony. More than in the twenties fps for an SD, and something about your reloading technique is faulty, or at least, improvable.

Of course, Mr. Murphy is right there grinning at you--there still will be the occasional ragged-hole group that was produced with a considerable variation in fps. But then, reloading is as much art as science.

Anyhow, I like the printed-out results. To each their own.

[LuckyStrike]

Ive got the Chrony F1, it works great and was only $80.00

[bigted1956]

thanks fellas, i have been rarely dissapointed with this site. i will go out and keep an eye out for a smokin deal on my first chrony. as soon as i buy one tho...u know what will happen...the really good deal will be there,,,happens every time at least for me

thanks again
Ted

[Brian Pfleuger]

You print up the data, note on the tape which load it's for, take it home and tape it to the relevant page in your reloaders' logbook. That's what makes the printer worthwhile IMHO.

Hm, yeah, I can see that being handy.

My reloading equipment is still in the box it shipped in so I haven't though that far out yet. It'll probably be another year before I'm reloading for my rifle, I'm less concerned about perfect loads with the practice loads for the handgun.

[Unclenick]

Not to be a dissenter, but I would like to see tests done under tilting and varying light conditions where a lot of folks report their units get funky readings. Never had that issue with the Oehler 35P, but you can't buy those new any more. I've not seen the problem on my CED Millenium, but I can't because I use the IR sky screens with it. It's that combination that the IPSC certified for power factor confirmation at their national competitions last time I looked. The newer version CED M2 actually self-adjusts its sensitivity to different lighting conditions, but I haven't used one so I can't report on how effective that approach is?

[Sarge]

I have a Chrony Beta Master and find it more than suitable for testing my loads. I agree that once your pet loads are developed and tested, you may not use the chrony much. Consider this when considering the amount of your investment.

Seconded, PCJim- 100%.

[Hook686]

I bought a Shooting Chrony Alpha Master (I recommend the Master, as it has the remote display you can set on your shooting bench). I had a round hit the sensor unit. It cost $35 to get a replacement sensor unit with the rods/sun screen. I then bought a F-1 Master on sale for about $80.

The difference between the Alpha and the F-1 is simply the Alpha holds ten data points, computes an average and the standard deviation. The F-1 shows fps shot by shot.

Some folks like the bells and whistles and they can be entertaining at times. Personally I got the chrony simply to measure the fps of my reloads. The F-1 does that just fine, and when I next put a bullet in the sensor case, I won't feel so bad.

[mongoose33]

I have the Competition Electronics ProChrono. Paid $94 for it. Does what I want.

However, if I'd do it over again I'd buy something like the guys above have. Printer tape would be fabulous, as well as controls at the bench. I couldn't afford it at the time (with all this reloading stuff to buy who can? : ), but now I sure wish I had.

I'll probably keep looking for a deal on a more feature-packed Chrono.

[amamnn]

I guess someone should mention that you can also hook up your Chrony master to your computer if you buy the software and adapters. Hours of fun and typing can be had using it that way. I used to keep all my records using the Chrony program until I had a complete failure of my computer which wiped out everything on it--even the backups..................luckily I had pretty much duplicated everything on paper.

[Colorado Redneck]

Does me well. I take a notebook to the range and write down the load, the velocity of each round and note the group size (sometimes...if it is bad, just so note.)

Occasionally, the thing won't pick up the round for some reason. Seems to do that every time when I only have one or two rounds of a particular load. Thus, I always load five of every different powder load that is close to max, to make sure I get a good look at it.

I use a camera tripod that is adjustable for setting it up. And place the chrony at least 10 feet from the end of your muzzle, as the muzzle blast can rock the thing. Wrap some tape at the indicated locations on the rods so you can use those marks for reference, and hopefully avoid shooting the equipment.

I have really appreciated having this thing, as the first time I used it, Ifound some really hot loads from one of my rifles. I shut down shooting those rounds, and later inquired on this forum. Within five or six responses the problems was identified. Probably that chrony provided me with one of the most valuable lessons I have learned about hand loading. Without the chrony, I might have ruined a nice rifle or even hurt myself with it.

I say: Go for it!

[Sarge]

You'll save yourself some grief if you replace the steel rods with 1/8" dowels, 12" in length and with the ends turned to fit the receptacles on the main unit and diffusers.

If you clip a steel rod(s) with a stray bullet, the base of the rod will likely wreck your machine. If you clip a dowel rod, you just pick the busted end out, grab another from the range bag and keep on shooting.

[bpratl]

Sarge. Good suggestion with the wooden rods. A friend of mine hit the rear steel rod with his 45 acp, destroyed the rear sensor and blew the rear out of my crony.

[olddrum1]

Got an Oehler that I have had for years. Dependable. Has lasted far longer than it should have.

CB

[Dingoboyx]

I have a chrony master F1.... it is good enough for me, it has the readout on a remote cable.... I am very happy with it.

I like the dowel idea also, will do that

One thing with any chrono, if you are using it with a scoped rifle.... beware.... aim high When you are looking thru the scope thru the valley, the barrel is pointing directly at the chrony :barf: because the scope is higher than the muzzle. Before shooting, line up as if to shoot, and get a mate or fellow shooter to look to see if the barrel is aiming at the unit itself. If you are alone at the range, depending on the height your scope is above the barrel, aim high. I suggest starting by putting the crosshairs above the difuser or replace the difusers with cardboard strips until you know you are clearing the unit and not blasting the difusers. prolly best to remove scope if you are alone.

I havent used mine for yonks, I reckon if you and a few mates buy one between yourselves (or your club gets one) as I really only use mine 2 or 3 times a year..... if a group of you buy one between you, you can get the best for little money & all can use it when needed. As long as no one shoots it, all will be well

[snomhf]

I just registered here so please forgive me for barging in on this discussion but I would certainly appreciate advice on using the Chrony F1 I just purchased.

I took it out yesterday and came home rather disappointed. The readings seemed all over the map. At this point I'm thinking there is either something wrong with my unit or I'm just not understanding how to use it properly. I hope some of you may offer some advice that can help me learn to get reliable readings with it.

I tried a number of scenarios. The readings I got in each scenario were consistent (encouraging) but the values were way off from the velocities I expected. I have the Chrony F1 mounted on a camera tripod and was shooting freehand. I was using three pistols: Crossman 1033 pellet pistol (which I seem to get reliable readings from in most any scenario), Walther P22 and 1911A1. I brought factory loads expecting to see around 1150fps with the 22 and 800fps with the 45acp. It was a fairly sunny day but I was under pretty heavy tree cover and there was no direct sunlight at all where I was shooting. Maybe that was the problem.

Here were my loose and from memory results:

#1: Using diffusers with both sets of rods attached and muzzle between 2-5', I got around 2250 consistently with the P22 and around 1250 with the 1911. I shot a good 15-20 rounds with each gun and the numbers stayed pretty consistent. Though the readings don't make much sense to me I was encouraged (I guess) that the values stayed pretty consistent.

#2: I took off one set of rods (reducing the triangle down to 8") and still using the diffusers, I retried again from 2-5' and got a much wider deviation than with scenario #1. I don't recall exact numbers but all the readings were very far from the expected 1150 and 800.

#3: Next, I took the diffusers off completely and just used the rods. Because I was shooting in total shade, that seemed like the most reasonable scenario. I got pretty close to the readings in scenario #1.

#4: I then tried scenario #3 except I moved back a good 10-12' from the Chrony. For a few of them, I tried moving back even further (e.g. 15-16') and the readings were pretty much all over the place. Certainly nothing I could trust.

Other observations:
It seemed to change readings considerably when I shot well above the sensors (e.g. 12") opposed to closer (4-6"). There just seemed to be so many variables that I finally just got confused enough that I decided to quit and come back another day with a better plan and bring a pistol rest that I can more accurately set things up.

My first tests with the Chrony F1 was with my little Crossman pellet pistol. The rating on this gun is 430fps and I consistently get in that ball park from almost any scenario. I can certainly watch the numbers fall as the CO2 runs out. I was very encouraged that this thing was really going to give me accurate results. Problem is, I am getting nothing trustworthy out of any of my firearms. I must be doing something wrong.

Any thoughts most welcome.

BTW, great reading here. I have been reading and enjoying this forum for some time now. Finally decided to register and ask for help.

Thanks much
-mark

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I think you were too close...

[rwilson452]

A couple of things popped at me right off. if your shooting without the screens on and under a tree, it's not going to work right. you need a white background for the eye to see the shadow. Shooting a firearm too close will upset it too. You want to be back at least 10'. Ideally it will work best on a day with a slight solid overcast, and screens. You need enough light for the eye to see a shadow of the bullet but not direct sunlight that will blind the eyes and eventually burn them out. Read the instructions again and look for the sweet spot above the eyes. I can't remember it right off as I marked the rods with electrical tape at the high and low end of the sweet spot. When using a firearm with a large sight to bore distance care must be taken not to get the bullet so low it will hit your Chrony.

Take note, that if you mark the rods you want to mark the distance above the eyes vertically and not measure the rod itself.

BTW I replaced the metal rods with wood dowels on the chance I might hit a rod. Hitting a metal rod or the Chrony case is bad Ju-Ju.

[PCJim]

Welcome to the board, Snomhf.

A couple of observations. First, like Magnum said, at 2-5' you are much too close to the sensors and are getting false readings from muzzle blast. Move the unit out to where it is 10' minimum from you. Second, the unit will not work well in the shade of a tree, if at all. Like Wilson said, you need to be able to create a shadow effect from the bullet for the sensors to pick it up accurately. An overcast day, or the artifically created shade from the screens in full daylight, will work well. The sun should be overhead, not way to the side of the unit as you want to avoid sunlight entering the unit from a angle.

The unit when set up should be parallel to the ground. You should be shooting across the unit parallel with the sensors. In other words, do not be shooting at an angle that is high over one sensor and low over the other -this will contribute to false readings.

You didn't mention whether you had any error messages during your trials. If so, let us know what they were. And, shooting 6" over the sensors v 10" should not produce measurably different results, as long as you are consistent in the manner in which you are shooting.

Lastly, although your post is appropriate for this particular thread, it comes after a lot of responses to the original post. it might gain better responses / attention if it had been entered as a new post. Don't be shy.

Let us know how your next venture out goes. I've a Beta Master and haven't had any problems. IMO, Chronys are good units.

[snomhf]

Thanks for the great responses (especially PCJim). Good advice. Though I did a lot of the testing at 2-5', I also shot quite a few rounds at the 10-15' range as well without any better results. I suspect being in the shade was the biggest problem together with shooting "freehand."

Oh yes, errors. I forgot to mention that. I got a few Err1 errors which the manual explains and I realized that I probably was shooting at somewhat of an angle. I also got some Err9 errors too. Again, I'm realizing that it was probably the deep shade causing most of the problem. It's pretty hard to get away from shade around here. I was much too complacent about this because the tests in my back yard with the pellet gun went so well. Course there is no muzzle blast with it. I'll plan this much better next time.

I appreciate the vote of confidence on the Chrony. I admit I was beginning to feel that it was not a very wise purchase. I have a much better idea of how to go about this now.

Thank you very much!
-mark