How to handle Berry's hollow pointn 125g

[L. Boscoe]

Being a Bullseye shooter, I recently got into 38spl. That
with a SW52, shooting HBWC only. My load for that bullet is 2.7gr of W231, and gives me 720fps reliably.
I am totally clueless about the HP target 125gr. The one
try was to load one on my 550 with the same settings as
the HBWC, only slightly pressing the bullet into the case.
I then went to the same taper crimp, and thought, OK,
let's see how that does.
Holy crapola! 425fps, I'm amazed it cleared the barrel.
Do I need a different crimp die for these bullets?
Any advice welcome, and of course one is not a good test.

[mehavey]

See https://hodgdonreloading.com/rldc/?t=2
You are waaaaaaaay under-powered for that combination.

Your heavier (148gr ?) hollow-base wadcutter's thin skirt flush OAL/greater
seating depth probably saved you there, but not with the 124/solid base at
normal OAL/seating depth.

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[Aguila Blanca]

Over the years I'd say easily 90% to 95% of my reloading has been with Berry's bullets. I like the bullets but their loading guidance is ridiculous. From the page for that bullet (and all other bullets):

• Load data for our Superior Plated Bullets® can be found in any manual or on any powder manufacturer’s website.
• Cast or jacketed data with the same grain weight and profile will work with our bullets.
• You can use a taper or a roll crimp.

Winchester 231 happens to be my powder of choice for most of the handgun rounds I reload. If I go to the Hodgdon web site, choose .38 Special, and then filter for 125-grain bullets and Winchester 231, I do NOT see any listing for Berry's plated target hollowpoint -- or any other Berry's bullet.

What I do see is a 125 gr Hornady XTP, which (except for the cuts at the mouth of the hollow) is somewhat similar to the Berry's target HP in profile. The suggested starting charge is 4.3 grains, which is supposed to produce 826 fps. The maximum charge is 4.9 grains, which is supposed to produce 934 fps. I have to agree with mehavey -- your charge is waaaaay too light fior that bullet.

[FrankenMauser]

The case (seated bullet) capacity difference, alone, is going to make that load fall on its face.

HBWCs are not TCHPs and require different data.

[L. Boscoe]

I knew the 2.7gr was probably light, given the case volume, but
up a whole grain will be my first try, maybe 4.0.
Many thanks for the replies. I am using up a batch of Magnum
primers I happened to have, but I have read that should not matter?

[L. Boscoe]

I forgot to mention that the 2.7 load for HBWC is pretty standard
among the bullseye crowd. 2.9 is the highest I have seen mentioned.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by L. Boscoe

I forgot to mention that the 2.7 load for HBWC is pretty standard
among the bullseye crowd. 2.9 is the highest I have seen mentioned.

Immaterial. This question is not about HBWC projectiles.

[Nick_C_S]

I might be over-thinking this. My first impression was that you're shooting these in your S&W Model 52. I think you must be shooting these in a revolver.

Are you talking about this bullet?: https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/bp-38-357-125gr-thp
So you're loading a 125gn bullet with 2.7 grains of W231?

The case (seated bullet) capacity difference, alone, is going to make that load fall on its face.

That ^.

up a whole grain will be my first try, maybe 4.0.

I have loaded quite my share of plated 125's over the years. And when I use W231 (often), I use 5.0 grains, and set the OAL to 1.445" with a taper crimp. Now I happen to use X-treme brand 125 plated FP's, but my bullet is close enough to yours for an "apples to apples" comparison for the sake of this discussion. These chronograph at 867 f/s through a Smith M67 w/ 4" bbl.

Just to gain more perspective: I load my 125 JHP's to 5.4 grains and they chrono at 955 f/s (same gun). I consider this to be a "+P" loading. I have gone as high as 5.6 grains and they chronoed at 978 f/s. Hornady's published max is 5.7; and, Sierra's is 5.8. I'm adding in this paragraph just to get a feel for the kind of W231 powder charges that are typical for 38 Special under 125's.

No load advice here. Just one guy's experience that I hope you find enlightening.

[L. Boscoe]

Nick you are on the ball. I am shooting the Berry's 125 HP in a
SW 686 witha 4in barrel, indoors at 20yds max. Good luck to anybody trying to shoot HP's in SW52's.
Really appreciate the load info. I was thinking about the case volume, which is why I only made one round. Stay tuned, 4.0
etc coming up-not looking for power, just enough to be
consistent and punch nice holes in paper.

[jetinteriorguy]

The recommended load for 148gr HBWC using HP38 is 3.5-4gr, I’ve never heard of loading them with such a light load. On the other hand 2.7-2.8gr of Bullseye is pretty much the standard for these bullets. So using a load already way below minimum in a heavier bullet to test a much lighter bullet is no bueno, lighter bullets require more powder, not less. Nick C S is pretty much spot on for what your doing.

[totaldla]

Originally Posted by L. Boscoe

I forgot to mention that the 2.7 load for HBWC is pretty standard
among the bullseye crowd. 2.9 is the highest I have seen mentioned.

Wrong powder. Always, always, always double-check your load data.
I'm pretty sure (as others have mentioned) that you are confusing a Bullseye powder load with a W231 powder load. Glad you didn't get it reversed.

[Nick_C_S]

Stay tuned, 4.0 etc. coming up-not looking for power, just enough to be consistent and punch nice holes in paper.

We're looking forward to hearing about the results. You may find that 4.0 may not quite get you to "just enough to be consistent." I said "may." I don't know for sure. But W231, for being a fast powder, is a bit lackadaisical. You do have to build up the load a little to get a consistent burn with it. Bullseye, for comparison, is quite a bit more spunky and so it runs more consistent when you turn it down. But we'll see. 4.0 of W231 may do fine.

[L. Boscoe]

You guys are confusing Bullseye Shooting with the gunpowder.
I never use the powder, and folks on the Bullseye Forum are where
I got the info about loads for HBWC. After firing hundreds of rounds of HBWC with 2.7gr of W231, I get consistent 720fps
which is what I want in a load designed to put holes in paper

[44 AMP]

RCBS Cast Bullet Manual (number 1) lists 4.0gr of W231 powder as their starting load for the 148gr wadcutter. This gives mid 800fps from a 4" revolver.

4gr of 231 under a 125gr bullet, not a heavier wadcutter seated flush with the case mouth will be "lighter" but might produce the same or higher velocities.

Might be less though as the difference in powder space will have an effect on the pressure.

Don't know if that will counter the lighter bullet weight, or not. Your gun, your ammo, you test it.

[mehavey]

After firing hundreds of rounds of HBWC with 2.7gr of W231, I get consistent 720fps

Please see Post #2 ( ...and the post just above as well.)

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