Draw & Definite "A" times?

MikeRussell · March 6, 2007, 02:02 PM

OK, I've got most of my rig and equipment and will probably shoot my first match at the end of the month. I've got my SP01, plenty of mags, holster, etc etc. So, I'm practicing some dryfiring on Matt Burkett's site with the par timer. I'm not sure how I stack up, but here's the conditions...

--size of simulated target is the same as shooting on a standard IPSC target at 10yrds
--I can consistantly draw, aim, and fire off one shot at or just under 1.5-1.6secs, I can get two off at 1.7secs (though it's not a true indicator, as there is no recoil from snap caps HAHA)...sight picture at break is definitely A, but not always center
--if I push the par timer down to 1.4, sometimes I can get a definite A, but a lot of times it will be a C
--from the submissive, hands on head stance facing the target

So, keep in mind that I'm a total newb at IPSC/USPSA type shooting (yep, I'm unclassified and will play around in Production & SS), how am I doing?

RickB · March 6, 2007, 02:38 PM

That is good, but wait until you are at the line, with the timer held in a RO's hand, and ten other shooters watching you perform. If you can still get an A hit in 1.5, you are doing very well. I've been shooting IPSC for ten years, and have never paid attention to my draw speed. I don't really care. I concentrate only on being smooth, and direct. As has been said, "slow is smooth, smooth is fast".

HSMITH · March 6, 2007, 02:58 PM

With iron sights I am in the one second flat area for a surrender draw at 10 yards as an average par time, I also hover around a second for a hands down draw at that range. ACTUAL match speeds are from 1.0-1.3 for both draws, depending on what else is going on, if I am warmed up a little, etc.

I dry fire both draws down to .7 or so just to work on the speed, but I don't try to bang out .7's for the whole practice routine.

Get your draw PERFECT, then worry about how long it takes. Working on speed first will get you a fast sloppy draw. Do lots of slow motion reps, and reverse reps back to the holster. ONLY draw at the speed you can pick up a really solid grip. Any faster is counter productive IMO. Another tip I didn't get when I started that would have helped a lot is to video yourself, you will see things that you had absolutely no idea were happening like extra motions, head bobbing, etc.

MikeRussell · March 6, 2007, 03:16 PM

Thanks for the input.

Those times are with a solid, good grip. I'm not trying to push it too hard, as I understand grip is more important to the whole string than the speed of the first shot. I'm still working on muscle memory with the draw (and I'm doing the return to holster as well), getting a feel for where everything is at, and doing some mental and physical preps for my first match (probably at the end of this month or first weekend in April). Yep, I'm working on reloads as well.

The video idea is something we do when training dogs. It allows the handler to see what everyone else is seeing and giving them input on. Great idea!

I was more curious as to how the time stacked up for a newb, rather than to see how fast I could draw and fire. I was practicing with the par timer and had lots of time left over, so I just kept decreasing the time until I got to a time zone that I was comfortable in. I know the speed will come as I get more experience and practice, I'm not so much worried about the speed as I am making sure I get an accurate shot off.

Joe D · March 6, 2007, 07:23 PM

What you do in a match is what counts. When the beep sounds everything changes.

joseywales · March 7, 2007, 08:34 AM

You're on the right track with making sure you get a good solid grip on your draw, so don't worry too much about the times. As a new shooter (actually ANY shooter), think safety first, and then target - front sight - next target - front sight...

For a USPSA match, the draw is just a small part of your overall performance. In many matches, there may be multiple 'draw positions' - unloaded gun on a table or in a box, loaded gun with your palms flat on a wall or a table or in a sink filled with water (not really as big a deal as it sounds). Include these different positions during your dryfire & livefire practice sessions.

Improving on all the stuff 'in-between' the shooting is where you can make the most difference in your overall match performance. Things like the transitions between the targets, setting up into and out of a position, stage analysis and tactics. Spend most of your practice time refining your motions 'in-between' the shots - getting the 'waste' out of those motions (smoothing things out) will give you huge gains in performance. The Burkett videos are great training tools.

Have fun & welcome to the game!

HiltonFarmer · March 8, 2007, 12:15 AM

When you get to the line and you hear "Load and make ready" everything between your ears turns to mush.

You hear a big sploosh and you know that it's the grey matter getting in the way.

It's great to be fast but accuracy counts for way more when you're starting. Heck, I walked through my first qualifier and scored better than others who had been doing it for a year. (not bragging or complaining

) More A shots and zero No Shoots get you good scores.

Enjoy the game!

HiltonFarmer

March 6, 2007, 02:02 PM	#1
MikeRussell Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2006 Location: Carencro, LA Posts: 335	Draw & Definite "A" times? OK, I've got most of my rig and equipment and will probably shoot my first match at the end of the month. I've got my SP01, plenty of mags, holster, etc etc. So, I'm practicing some dryfiring on Matt Burkett's site with the par timer. I'm not sure how I stack up, but here's the conditions... --size of simulated target is the same as shooting on a standard IPSC target at 10yrds --I can consistantly draw, aim, and fire off one shot at or just under 1.5-1.6secs, I can get two off at 1.7secs (though it's not a true indicator, as there is no recoil from snap caps HAHA)...sight picture at break is definitely A, but not always center --if I push the par timer down to 1.4, sometimes I can get a definite A, but a lot of times it will be a C --from the submissive, hands on head stance facing the target So, keep in mind that I'm a total newb at IPSC/USPSA type shooting (yep, I'm unclassified and will play around in Production & SS), how am I doing? __________________ Mike Russell

March 6, 2007, 03:16 PM	#4
MikeRussell Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2006 Location: Carencro, LA Posts: 335	Thanks for the input. Those times are with a solid, good grip. I'm not trying to push it too hard, as I understand grip is more important to the whole string than the speed of the first shot. I'm still working on muscle memory with the draw (and I'm doing the return to holster as well), getting a feel for where everything is at, and doing some mental and physical preps for my first match (probably at the end of this month or first weekend in April). Yep, I'm working on reloads as well. The video idea is something we do when training dogs. It allows the handler to see what everyone else is seeing and giving them input on. Great idea! I was more curious as to how the time stacked up for a newb, rather than to see how fast I could draw and fire. I was practicing with the par timer and had lots of time left over, so I just kept decreasing the time until I got to a time zone that I was comfortable in. I know the speed will come as I get more experience and practice, I'm not so much worried about the speed as I am making sure I get an accurate shot off. __________________ Mike Russell

March 6, 2007, 07:23 PM	#5
Joe D Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 1999 Location: Alabama Posts: 455	What you do in a match is what counts. When the beep sounds everything changes. __________________ Miss? That can't be a miss. Looks like a perfect double to me.

March 8, 2007, 12:15 AM	#7
HiltonFarmer Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2006 Location: Western Canada Posts: 324	Practice - practice - practice When you get to the line and you hear "Load and make ready" everything between your ears turns to mush. You hear a big sploosh and you know that it's the grey matter getting in the way. It's great to be fast but accuracy counts for way more when you're starting. Heck, I walked through my first qualifier and scored better than others who had been doing it for a year. (not bragging or complaining ) More A shots and zero No Shoots get you good scores. Enjoy the game! HiltonFarmer __________________ I wish gun control could go away. That way I could buy anything I wanted. _______________________________________ Keep the muzzle pointed down range please!

March 6, 2007, 02:38 PM	#2
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	That is good, but wait until you are at the line, with the timer held in a RO's hand, and ten other shooters watching you perform. If you can still get an A hit in 1.5, you are doing very well. I've been shooting IPSC for ten years, and have never paid attention to my draw speed. I don't really care. I concentrate only on being smooth, and direct. As has been said, "slow is smooth, smooth is fast".

March 6, 2007, 02:58 PM	#3
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	With iron sights I am in the one second flat area for a surrender draw at 10 yards as an average par time, I also hover around a second for a hands down draw at that range. ACTUAL match speeds are from 1.0-1.3 for both draws, depending on what else is going on, if I am warmed up a little, etc. I dry fire both draws down to .7 or so just to work on the speed, but I don't try to bang out .7's for the whole practice routine. Get your draw PERFECT, then worry about how long it takes. Working on speed first will get you a fast sloppy draw. Do lots of slow motion reps, and reverse reps back to the holster. ONLY draw at the speed you can pick up a really solid grip. Any faster is counter productive IMO. Another tip I didn't get when I started that would have helped a lot is to video yourself, you will see things that you had absolutely no idea were happening like extra motions, head bobbing, etc.

March 7, 2007, 08:34 AM	#6
joseywales Member Join Date: November 3, 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 29	You're on the right track with making sure you get a good solid grip on your draw, so don't worry too much about the times. As a new shooter (actually ANY shooter), think safety first, and then target - front sight - next target - front sight... For a USPSA match, the draw is just a small part of your overall performance. In many matches, there may be multiple 'draw positions' - unloaded gun on a table or in a box, loaded gun with your palms flat on a wall or a table or in a sink filled with water (not really as big a deal as it sounds). Include these different positions during your dryfire & livefire practice sessions. Improving on all the stuff 'in-between' the shooting is where you can make the most difference in your overall match performance. Things like the transitions between the targets, setting up into and out of a position, stage analysis and tactics. Spend most of your practice time refining your motions 'in-between' the shots - getting the 'waste' out of those motions (smoothing things out) will give you huge gains in performance. The Burkett videos are great training tools. Have fun & welcome to the game!