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Old October 26, 2020, 01:02 PM   #126
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Re-reading the OP's criteria and strict limitations imposed by the "Security Team's" leadership... and not wanting to further mystify anyone without just cause, short of suggesting a blue Lightsaber, I would have agree with previous posters pertaining to the Walther PPK in .380. Good suggestion!!! I agree. I have a mid 90's Interarms PPK/S and with hollowpoints, it's accurate, won't over penetrate and is very easy to conceal. Just carry LOTS of extra magazines.
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Old October 26, 2020, 01:18 PM   #127
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I see all kinds of legal and liability issues with this question. For example, who pays for the really expensive liability insurance? And the lawyer you'll need should something happen? Did you get everything discussed with the padre in writing?
You need to look into the legality of carrying in a church where you are in the first place. All Federal, State and municipal(if there are any) laws apply. Neither your padre nor his higher ups can allow anything that is not legal, otherwise. Adding to that, it seems which flavour of church matters too. Lot of 'em don't want CCW in their buildings, but they're greatly divided. And you need to consider what the assorted parents think about it.
In any case, it'd be you, not the padre, et al who would be charged and/or sued, if it's not legal. You need to CYA.
"...I’m trained in..." Exactly what kind of training? It'd matter in court. Should something happen. A regular CCW class does not make you LEO.
" pocket pistols..." That means no .380 ACP of any brand. Certainly not a Kahr CT380. It and nearly every other .380 pistol is a pocket pistol.
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Old October 26, 2020, 05:29 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
No handgun, not even a so-called "full size service handgun," is going to provide much of an advantage (or even do much to dispel your tactical DISadvantage) when the opposition is armed with a rifle. Aside from that, the OP has already stated -- multiple times -- that he already has and knows how to use a full-size duty handgun, and that he is looking for something smaller and more concealable.

I confess to being mystified as to why so many people insist on ignoring the criteria that the OP has very clearly spelled out.
14856 posts and you’re mystified why people don’t get the OP’s criteria? It’s called the internet.
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Old October 26, 2020, 07:30 PM   #129
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Of course training is good. But don't untrained people stop robberies every day because they were armed and kinda prepared? Seems like I read about them every month in the Armed Citizen section of NRA magazines.

Untrained is unprepared. There is a difference between being trained and being lucky.
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Old October 26, 2020, 07:51 PM   #130
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I'm nobody's salesperson and don't really care what the OP chooses. I suspect nobody here gets any compensation for whatever the OP chooses. I suspect nobody here goes to the same church should the OP end up having to discharge the firearm during a security threat.

It's all academic as the OP came up with a variety of criteria which may counter what some people would even consider and can result in a handgun some people wouldn't consider. There may actually be no handgun in existence which the OP will find ideal.

There are some great thoughts and comments, so far, on the OP's discussion regarding his thoughts/wants/considerations.

#1 under the heading "SAFETY". I initially thought the OP wanted a manual thumb safety of some sort. In re-reading the OP, the criteria indicates a "light trigger", which is vague as it doesn't indicate a trigger pull weight, is somehow safer. "DOA", which to me means "dead on arrival", I'm guessing, meant DAO, or double-action-only, is arguably not safer, but just different. At the end, the OP would also like 2nd strike capability. 2nd strike capability is yet another arguable want-item which I might address later.

Also, DA/SA, which has been commonly used in handguns like the CZ75; SIG's older-designed P-series, i.e., P229, P226, P220, or others no longer being made; or Beretta M9/92; will have a heavier initial trigger pull, but the subsequent trigger pulls are lighter.

#2 CALIBER. A "caliber which is accurate" is vague and accuracy will also depend on the firearm and shooter, too. Does caliber make a particular handgun less accurate, or will it only make a follow-up shot take longer, i.e., make (longer "splits"?). No need to answer.

"Won't over-penetrate" is also vague. While I believe the FBI protocol in ammo choice is 12" to 18", for most commonly chosen handgun self-defense calibers, there isn't a magic or smart caliber which is so accurate you could shoot without aiming, yet when the (human) threat happens to be hit, will automatically stop before exiting the threat, with the mushroomed bullet just being found in the back of the threat's tucked in shirt once the autopsy is performed. OP may want to merely state what caliber and ammo will be used. If it's .380, which the OP seemed to be favoring, then so state it. Then we can get into the never-ending caliber war.

#3. "Maximizing" being concealable "while still having a full grip". This seems to be in such opposition, it's either a no-win "want" and in the end, will only be known to the OP as to what works. We're all thinking a concealable handgun, possibly in an IWB holster. I don't think anyone suggested an AK or AR pistol (yet).

Maybe I missed it as the thread just keeps getting longer, but a "pistol" may not be the answer. Thinking less literally, there are revolvers (yet more caliber choices) which are often DAO. 2nd-strike capable, once the cylinder goes around. Then there are the non or less lethal "Taser" type products; chemical sprays; and impact weapons, which are totally non-firearm options.

2nd-strike capability. This is both a training issue and a hardware-selection issue regarding ammo and the handgun; and why didn't the round go off. How many strikes are going to be used until it is determined the primer is never going to go off? (rhetorical, don't answer). Just go to the next round &/or reload.

Ending suggestions:
Consider revolvers, too. There are many sizes and calibers to consider.

Consider what Glock has to offer. Most Glocks, if not all, have the ability to be modified with heavier trigger pull weights and even resulting in DAO-type triggers (NY1 and NY2 trigger options; heavier firing pin springs). Of course Glocks come in a variety of sizes with "pinky" extensions commonly used if the initial size seems too small (G42, G43, G43X, G26, etc.). I don't believe the smaller models will have a DAO type result even though the trigger can be made heavier. The G26gen3 will have the older style NY1 or NY2 trigger springs available, however. Again, I believe a heavier trigger pull doesn't make the firearm safer, and might detract from accuracy.
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Old October 26, 2020, 10:35 PM   #131
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Sorry I didn't read all of the thread-
If I was going to arm children on a church security team I'd stick with 22's- they seem to fit their small hands the best.
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Old October 27, 2020, 06:00 AM   #132
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This one is obviously done, and pretty much has been for a couple of pages.

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