Looking for unique .22lr?

[blackwidowp61]

For those of you who have more money than you know what to do with and want a new and unique .22lr, I submit the following web site for your perusal.

http://www.fortner-biathlon.com/

Looks like it could be a real squirrel plinker, water bottle blaster or paper puncher at long range.

[Jim Watson]

What do you mean "unique?" I was watching the Olympics and there were dozens of them.

A friend has the cheap Baikal Biathlon straight pull and it is remarkably accurate.

[handlerer2]

I you really have more money than you know what to do with, Check out the Jackson Squirrel Rifle, by Cooper Rifles of Montana.

I own A MDL 22 Montana Varminter and it's awesome, in 6.5x284. They sure aren't cheap, the Squirrel Rifle is $2500, but a work of art. The action and barrel in a target stock is competitive with and has won competitions against Ashultz and Walther rifles. Can't hurt to look.

[blackwidowp61]

Hey Jim, other than your friend who owns the "cheap Baikal" or a biathlon competitor, do you know of anyone who owns a Fortner? Thus it is pretty unique to me.

Handlerer, I'll have to look that Cooper up. Thanks. And I love the name!

[MrBorland]

I've always wanted a biathlon rifle!

[hdwhit]

blackwidowP61 wrote:
Looks like it could be a real squirrel plinker, water bottle blaster or paper puncher at long range.

Biathlon involves shooting at targets 50 meters away. Everything to do with the shooting side of the competition is optimized for that distance. The inherent quality of the rifles may allow them to perform well over longer distances, but long distance shooting is not what they are built for.

[hdwhit]

Mr Borland wrote:
I've always wanted a biathlon rifle!

Well then, get one!

But, you may be disappointed.

The rifles are heavy since they have to be ballasted to weigh about what a service rifle weighed a century ago since the sport simulates winter warfare. The straight-pull action is designed for rapid fire shooting since it is a timed event. If you look at the video posted by the OP and look at the stock, you'll see that it is arranged to minimize the disturbance caused by the shooter breathing hard; it is not really an ergonomic stock.

[hdwhit]

blackwidowp61 asked:
...do you know of anyone who owns a Fortner?

No.

I got onto the circuit to try out for the team that went to Lake Placid. It was during the time biathlon in the U.S. was having its "epiphany" and realizing even the best cross-country skiers couldn't make up for time they lost skiing penalty laps for missing targets. As a result of this re-think, they decided to recruit good shooters off of college rifle teams and teach them to ski. The rifles were mostly Anschutz (Fortner didn't exist) and the one I used - along with all the rest of the training equipment - was owned by the sponsor, who I never met, not by me.

By the way, I didn't come close to qualifying, but it was an interesting look behind the curtain.

[blackwidowp61]

hdwhit, sorry to hear that you didn't make it, but glad you tried non-the-less. Fortner does make a sporting rifle. Depending on what MRBORLAND would want to do with a Fortner, there is an option. If I had the bucks, I too would buy the biathlon rifle just to see what it would do at longer ranges.

[MrBorland]

Originally Posted by hdwhit

you may be disappointed.

The rifles are heavy since they have to be ballasted to weigh about what a service rifle weighed a century ago since the sport simulates winter warfare. The straight-pull action is designed for rapid fire shooting since it is a timed event. If you look at the video posted by the OP and look at the stock, you'll see that it is arranged to minimize the disturbance caused by the shooter breathing hard

Those are 2 reasons why I always wanted one .

A heavier rifle is easier to shoot offhand. My A2 Service Rifle I shot in HighPower matches has lead in the forearm and buttstock to bring it to 15-ish pounds. And a straight pull bolt would seem easier to shoot without breaking position. The extra speed is a nice bonus when time matters, too. I think one of those rifle would be a dandy Appleseed rifle...

BTW, I've been watching biathlon in the olympics, and am in awe of those guys and gals. I've been a competitive cyclist for some years, and know how difficult it is to be at or near your "red zone". On top of this, when they show the target as the shooter's shooting, you can see where previous shots have hit, and not infrequently, it's a cluster of shots that're touching. That's fine 50m shooting by any standard, let alone while standing and let alone while your heart's in your throat.

[T. O'Heir]

"...Looks like it could be a..." Yep. To the tune of $3500USD with no rear sight. That retails for $375US. $82 each for extra 5 round (only) mags.
Fortner just invented a speed increasing device added to the bolt that makes a fast straight pull bolt faster. It's the extension on the bottom of the bolt.
Fortner stuff is sold by Anschutz, Stateside.
http://www.champchoice.com/store/mai...istBody&c=FIBI
"...for missing targets..." Shot off hand after skiing a total of 20 klicks(men), 2 or 2.5 km at a time.
"...what it would do at longer ranges..." Same thing any other .22 will do.

[blackwidowp61]

I remember when I was in my teens, I got involved in NRA youth target shooting. We used an old, heavy single shot bolt action target rifles with peep sights. You would have to break your position after every shot to reload. Not exactly inducive to good accuracy. I still managed to qualify as expert. How much easier would it have been with a Fortner action rifle I'll never know, but the urge to try a Fortner biathlon rifle out for target and long range shooting is strong. Only problems are, I'm too darn old and don't have the $$$.

I also have to agree with MRBORLAND that a heavier rifle is easier to shoot offhand.

I can also admit that there are a bunch of rifles out there that are shooters. The thing is, I don't see any of them being used in biathlon competition. The standard bolt action is slower than a straight pull and is more disruptive to your shooting. The only movement in a Fortner is the index finger and the thumb.

The only person that I could see using a standard bolt action in this competition would be a wild boar hunter by the name of Franz Albrecht. I posted a video of him in the general discussion forum. He can work a standard bolt action almost as fast as he can a straight pull bolt. He is so fast, smooth and accurate, it's almost scary.

[Jim Watson]

Remind me of the old running deer match, a manually operated center fire rifle required.
With double runs included, most shooters worked hard on their bolt manipulation.
The AMU figured to game it with accurized Remington 760 pumps.
Long before, Walter Winans did well with a Rigby double rifle in .22,Savage High Power.

[Art Eatman]

Peter Hofer will make a Hummingbird double rifle in .22; the plain-vanilla version is around $125,000.

Or you can look for a Schutzen .22; around $1,500 and up.

[CalmerThanYou]

Thanks for nothing on the Cooper Rifle suggestion. Wow!! Now I have another item to add to my bucket list of wants.

[FITASC]

That Hummingbird is not only gorgeous, but a remarkable feat of engineering to make a double rifle weigh only 1Kg......of course, he makes a lot of unique guns.

[Don Fischer]

Blow's my mind the amount of money people are willing to pay for guns and reloading equip. $2500 for what appears to be a production 22 LR. $150 for the rifle and $2350 for calling it a squirrel!

[fourbore]

A friend has the cheap Baikal Biathlon straight pull and it is remarkably accurate.

I saw one at a local gun shop just last month. I forget the price, it was not cheap. I just dont remember, could be 1000. Cheap for a biathlon? Ugly. I was tempting, just to try something different. On my next visit, it had sold. Once it was gone, I started think, maybe I should have got it. Human nature. I can live without.

[blackwidowp61]

fourbore, kind of like comparing a Trabant to a Mercedes Benz...the Baikal is truly ugly when compared to the Fortner...somebody saved you from the embarrassment of taking it out in public.

[Picher]

No desire to own a Biathlon rifle, nor to wear skis at the shooting range, especially when there's no snow.

The most satisfying .22 rifle I own is my accurized Ruger 10-22. It will outshoot a lot of really nice bolt-actions. Not only that but, I can "kiss it anytime I want."

(Line from Sweet Home Alabama)

[OzeanJaeger]

.22 drives me nuts. I'm not alone, because look at how big .22 BR has always been. I refuse to compete in anything where I can control my own, tuned ammunition. I don't know how those guys do it, but I know they drop as much $$$ as any other shooting discipline, and probably more. Tenex is $23 for a box of 50!

In Biathlon 50M is the target distance and it's about a 3.5MOA prone, and a 9MOA off hand. Those are HUGE...unless you're breathing like a freight train, and under pressure of competing against the best in the world... Then it sounds really, really hard.

I would guess they're shooting the best .22 BR ammo and not plink.

I wonder if they all run tuners or not?

[Jim Watson]

Watching the event, tuners were uncommon.

[safd]

Not to derail the OP, but this is a cool looking reworked model(PWS) from a reputable company.
Volquartsen Summit

[blackwidowp61]

Still out of my price range, but I do find it intriguing. Not real crazy about the toggle however...too much like the Baikal.

[Picher]

MrBorland: You might try to get a bicycle/athon started. The only problem would be if you rode your bike on public roads with a rifle strapped to your back. Maybe that would be just a natural "hazard" to be avoided?