semi-auto shotguns

[siloshooter]

i have thought about buying a semi-auto in the past . now , i have developed a physical condition that renders me unable to use my remington 870 pump as it was intended to be used . the four i am going to list is what i want to concentrate for the time being .......thanks & i hope some of you have possibly fired these guns , and/or know someone who has owned one . the prices are high on most of these .
berreta a300 ultimapatrol mossberg940 pro tactical radical sax-4 and
savage renegauge security
which ones are the best to handle/fire ? which ones are possibly made better with small amounts of breakage ? is there a marked difference in quality in internal parts ? my small observation mostly focused on price , since i never owned any of these . was surprised at the savage coming in at apprx. $1400 !
and the radical sax-4 seems like a stand out bargain ! would that stop a potential buyer running the other way because of the not made in this country would not have confidence in ? !
may attend a gun show in a few weeks so since i am entering territory , i want to carry with me the best info i can have !
i will check back ....... and thanks again.

[ammo.crafter]

If you are already familiar with the Remington 870 why not "try on" a Remington 1100 29ga.

I went from a Rem 870 12ga to a G3 (1100) Rem and never looked back.

It's light, swings instinctively and you can walk a field all day with it.

There are many factors in recoil; gun weight, shot payload, weight of powder and wad, etc.

Do not think that a 20ga has less felt recoil than a 12ga. It's not that simple.

Good luck

[L-2]

Post 1,
I'd not previously heard of a "radical sax-4" shotgun, but did find a Radikal brand (with a "K", not a "C"):
https://www.radikalarms.com/index.php/en/products-range
The company appears to be in Turkey which could indicate zero to little service or parts availability, if ever needed.
I didn't see any "sax-4" model.

I've seen folks asking about the Savage Renegauge Security, but so far I've not heard anything good or bad, but there are some Youtube videos available (I've not watched them):
https://savagearms.com/renegauge

https://www.mossberg.com/m940-pro-18...syn-matte.html
Mossberg has been trying to get its semiauto "tactical" type shotguns to be what folks want over the years. It's possible Mossberg may finally have a good shotgun, but I still don't know.

I've heard much good regarding the Beretta A300 Ultima Patrol and it seems to be what most folks would want in a tactical-type shotgun, yet less expensive than the 1301 models:
https://www.beretta.com/en-us/a300-ultima-patrol-black/

POST 2,
Remarms doesn't seem to have anything in its 1100 line-up in the tactical area anymore. Also, I don't what was meant by a "29ga" shotgun from Post 2.

While I currently have three pre-Remarms Remington shotguns, I'd hesitate buying something from the latest Remarms company, at least until I hear more positivity regarding how or if Remarms is dealing with parts/service/warranty needs.

If it was me, I'd research between the Benelli M4, Beretta A300 Ultima Patrol, and Beretta 1301T or whatever exact model number.

[MarkCO]

Ditto Post #3.

Get the Beretta.

[44 AMP]

Go find a used rem 1100 and if you want tacticool stuff there's lots out there.
Barrels, mag tubes, stocks and lots of other things.

Ok, so the old Remington is gone, and I don't know if anyone is making them today, but, so what?? 1100s have been made for well over half a century, not sure how many millions are out there, but they, and their parts and people who know how to work on them will be around for a long time to come.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Go find a used rem 1100 and if you want tacticool stuff there's lots out there.
Barrels, mag tubes, stocks and lots of other things.

Ok, so the old Remington is gone, and I don't know if anyone is making them today, but, so what?? 1100s have been made for well over half a century, not sure how many millions are out there, but they, and their parts and people who know how to work on them will be around for a long time to come.

No doubt the 1100s are great for the clay games and birds. BUT they are terrible for tactical applications with an extended magazine tube. First SOF match, 1980, 10 of 10 top shooters used 1100s. In 1981, there were three in the top 10. Since 1981, no-one has won a 3Gun, or tactical/practical shotgun match with an 1100. They release the shell from the tube when the action basically "locks" open, then the shell from the tube unlocks it due to impact. They just don't work well. Anyone who knows enough to be dangerous with tactical shotguns that have 6+ tubes knows this.

[L-2]

To add to Post 6 (thanks MarkCO for the 1100 description of its operation), my semiauto is the similar-to-1100, 11-87P. It's no longer working 100% as the action no longer automatically sends its bolt forward when loading the initial round.

I just need to manually trip the bolt release as whatever is supposed to auto-trip the bolt release no longer works (and I couldn't figure it out). A new trigger assembly would likely work as I substituted a friend's trigger assembly in and it worked once again, but had to give that trigger assembly back to my friend.

Another used trigger assembly would be ~$100 to $200 on Ebay, but for now, I'll live with the minor extra step I've been doing for the last 10 years or so. If I really get tired of needing to use the bolt release or the trigger assembly fails even more, I'd rather put the $200 or so toward a new shotgun.

I suppose the point is until or unless REMARMS starts to supply new parts to the market, it becomes more difficult to maintain; but that's OK as long as any owner knows the potential difficulty in using an older gun.

I realize many folks will own a particular firearm, but never often shoot or regularly practice with it anyway. In that way, the gun can last forever and never break.

I'm mainly a pump-action guy anyway with my two 870s and one 590A1.

[FITASC]

a physical condition that renders me unable to use my remington 870 pump as it was intended to be used

And how was it intended to be used? Some use them for hunting, some for trap/skeet, some from HD, some for tactical games
I would not, in today's world, get a used 1100; Remington is not making parts and those in existence are getting harder (and expensive) to find. I would give the Beretta the nod of all of those you listed

[jmr40]

Get the Beretta for what you want to do. No contest. If you were looking for a hunting and clays shooting gun there are other good options, but the Sporting version of the Beretta A300 is a value leader. You'd have to spend $500-$600 more to do any better.

The Remington 1100 was a decent gun in the 1960's and 70's. But it is outdated by much better designs today.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by MarkCO

Ditto Post #3.

Get the Beretta.

Same here.

I'm batting about .500 with recent Mossbergs, including a couple of new 930s. QC way to spotty to get any more of my business.

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by MarkCO

They release the shell from the tube when the action basically "locks" open, then the shell from the tube unlocks it due to impact. They just don't work well. Anyone who knows enough to be dangerous with tactical shotguns that have 6+ tubes knows this.

It is mechanism common to most, if not all, tube magazine designs. The dog holds back the bolt. The cartridge stop releases a fresh shell, shooting out of the magazine tube under the power of the magazine spring. The shell gets on the elevator and trips the dog to release the bolt.

If the fresh round has difficulty to trip the dog, a stronger magazine spring may help.

For semi auto shotgun, Beretta is good but pricey. Turkish clones are not bad. I would consider the Panzer models. They are supposed to have interchangeable parts with Beretta.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by tangolima

It is mechanism common to most, if not all, tube magazine designs. The dog holds back the bolt. The cartridge stop releases a fresh shell, shooting out of the magazine tube under the power of the magazine spring. The shell gets on the elevator and trips the dog to release the bolt.

Nope, the Beretta 1300 line, VersaMax, Stoeger, Franchi, Benelli, some Weatherbys, and several others release the shell on the trigger pull. That is why they are more reliable, and why they are the ones used for 3Gun and Tactical shotgun.

[tangolima]

Interesting. I didn't know that. Will look into that. Is Benelli m2 one of the models?

-TL

PS. You are right. There are designs that release primary shell stop by hammer. The idea is to avoid magazine surge. The gun will run faster, and probably more reliably. The shell "pre-trips" the carrier and dog before recoil goes full force.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by tangolima

Interesting. I didn't know that. Will look into that. Is Benelli m2 one of the models?

-TL

PS. You are right. There are designs that release primary shell stop by hammer. The idea is to avoid magazine surge. The gun will run faster, and probably more reliably. The shell "pre-trips" the carrier and dog before recoil goes full force.

Yes, the M2 is one of those, as is the M4. All of the Benelli Inertia and Argo system shotguns actually.

Shell surge is a major handicap of shotguns like the Mossberg 930/940. And while folks make parts and mods to try and mitigate it, it still happens and causes malfunctions.

My match M2, which has been flawless for a decade plus had it's first malfunction last week at RM3G. I loaned a new shooter my shell carrier vest with 24 Carbon Arms SSL clips, for 48 shells. When he gave it back, there were a few random shells in it. I mixed a bunch of shells on my last stage and three were 3 white box Winchesters with the steel casehead. One of them popped past the shell latch, basically a "1.5 feed" and jammed up the shotgun. Cost me 30 seconds, finally cleared with a buttstock strike on the ground. Crap ammo, I should have known better.

[siloshooter]

lots of good info

tried to go shoot my 870 a few days ago . went to check it & found out i could not operate the pump action ! i have torn rotators in both shoulders , my 2nd go round on both ! i believe with a little practice with the new gun , leaning toward the berreta , i could make it work for me .
home protection shotgun is what i am after .
if any one knows a good semi auto 12 gauge that is reliable and beats the berreta on price by a good margin , tell me here . it just does not seem very possible .
will check back if i get the new gun . trying to exercise & do what i can at 75 to hang in there ! just remember , don't ever get sick !

[MarkCO]

Stoeger M3000 series and Weatherby Element series are two good shotguns that are essentially Benelli M2 operating systems. Both are in the $500 to $600 range. Those are my suggestions for budget auto-loading shotguns.

[stagpanther]

I'm not a shotgun guy--though have a couple. My browning 20 gauge Silver Rifled is built to cycle heavy slugs and sabbots and with the right slug is very accurate. Not sure if that's up your ally--but if putting down big animals is on your plate with semi-auto might be something to consider.

[siloshooter]

mossberg 940 pro tactical

has generally good reviews on u-tube . one tester gave it a clean report card thru 500 rounds fired with out a burp ! the only bump he had was at the very end of his testing when he made the error of dumping 3 1/2 " shells into the chamber , and the gun will only except up to 3 " shells .

i am unclear where 3 1/2 " shell would be used .... double barrel big game guns ? i am still doing some research but the mossberg seems possible & has a fair price tag

[L-2]

Post 18,
See my Post #3. While it is possible Mossberg has finally hit on the right combination of features, quality, and reliability, but for me, it's not yet proven (by other folks). I tend to not want to be the few folks to take a chance on verifying a relatively firearm.

I know of folks who seem to be constantly buying the latest thing, based on just a few internet reviews, but really try not to be one of those folks. I do understand the desire & hope to find the next great firearm, however.

Again, if it was me right now to choose a shotgun, I'd probably go with the Beretta A300 Ultima Patrol, 1300T or possibly the Benelli M4. I'm getting by with three pump action SGs and a worn Remington 11-87P (but don't recommend a discontinued SG or Remington/Remarms at all at this time).

[L-2]

I also like Post 16's advice. I just don't have the personal experience and knowledge he's got on the Benelli M1 & M2 guns, along with the other brands' copies of such.

I do know my prior employer's SWAT unit had a 14" M1 or M2 Benelli, but I never even got to touch it or if it's still in use.

Maybe I'll go shopping for a semiauto SG next week...
(I'm seeing an A300 U/P in stock close by).

[siloshooter]

will be going to the indy 1500 gun show next week-end. don't have any gun shops in my immediate area to speak of .
has anyone saw the beretta 300 ultima at a shop or gun show to see what kind of price they are bringing ? the have not seemed to be very plentiful even on line .
thanks

[GeauxTide]

Have an 11-87 LH that I converted for Hog Hunting. Thumbhole stock, short barrel. I just got a couple of Franchi Affinity LH in 12 and 20. They are very light, but I shot a buddy's wood stocked 20 years ago and it spread the recoil out nicely. Beretta and Benelli are also superb.

[Lurch37]

has anyone saw the beretta 300 ultima at a shop or gun show to see what kind of price they are bringing ?

I have not had one in my hands but a quick online search gave me this:

Buds has one for $1049

Scheels has one for $1000

[stinkeypete]

Lets start with the great difference between a gas operated system and a recoil operated system.

I have two shotguns that weigh the same 6.75 pounds. A Syren 20 gauge over and under and a Fabarms L4s gas semi-auto. Both have wood stocks with no doo-dad recoil reducing devices.

Shooting 1.25 ounce 1220 fps hunting loads, the gas operated semi-auto has much less recoil felt at the shoulder than the 20 gauge shooting .875 ounce target loads at 1220 fps. MUCH LESS recoil for MUCH MORE payload. It's shocking.

The recoil operated system will not reduce recoil very much at all. It also has some problems if a fellow bumps the bolt lever, the infamous 'Benelli Click" can result. The bolt does not like to go back into battery. For those who train with it, it's not insolvable.

If recoil is an issue, the Beretta, Fabarms, and Tristar Viper all offer significant recoil reduction, even before Beretta puts mechanical doo-dads in the stock.

[MarkCO]

To be direct, I don't personally like the Beretta 1301 line, but that is just a preference. But all things taken into account, it is probably the best overall choice for a tactical shotgun for the un-, to moderately skilled with a tactical shotgun.

Some of that is the shell release on the trigger pull (good), moderate recoil (good), and they are generally made well and last a long time.